The Actual Facts... What hard evidence is there against Terri?

[SurfieTX]

1. The last known vehicle Kyron was in was Kaine's white truck driven by Terri.
2. Kyron was photographed in front of his project on June 4, 2010 at around 8:15 by Terri.
3. Kyron was marked absent at 10:00, and none of his parents were notified of his absence. His teacher said she thought he had a doctor's appt. because Terri had dropped off some paperwork for her to fill out the day before.
4. Terri went shopping at FM.
5. Terri showed pictures of Kyron to AL at FM.
6. Terri worked out at the gym on June 4, 2010.
7. Terri uploaded pictures of Kyron to her FB at around 1:30 on June 4, 2010.
8. Kaine placed a RO against Terri, which involved their daughter as well.
9. Terri procured a high-profile defense attorney.
10. Terri has not spoken or testified at the GJ (that we know of, and I'm sure it would have been reported if she had).
11. Terri's picture has been on 2 police flyers that were passed out to the community.

These are known facts. This does paint Terri in a suspicious light, but it is not "hard evidence" that she did anything.

 

[PaulaF513]

Hi, desquire. The doctor's appointment being false came from unnamed sources, so I think we need to move that one to the unconfirmed category.

Sources: Terri Horman vague on Kyron’s doctor appointment date
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98981009.html

I would agree on the other two. We have LE confirmation on the witnesses/truck, and we have the actions of LE (seeking info on truck whereabouts in that timeframe) that they would most likely not be conducting if her whereabouts were verified.

I don't think we can even count on the truck sighting. We know that the school's landscaper drove a similar truck, that he was on that access road that morning albeit at slightly different times than those in which LE had expressed interest. The big however is LE's source of this information. When did they obtain it, who remembered it, why was it 2 months before being presented to the public, how accurately would most people remember a timeframe of seeing a truck before they knew something traumatic had occurred???

I believe LE has gone on record as saying that TH's cell phone and bank records placed her at different locations than she had acknowledged. We have heard nothing further along those lines though.

I think it is positively sickening that LE has given nothing but suspicion and innuendo yet continues to reassure the public that this is an isolated case. The fact is that they do not know that and I, for one, believe their assurance is reckless.

 

[PaulaF513]

But
- Baby K did not have a doctor's appointment
- "Everyone" thought KYRON had an appointment- It makes no sense to take Kyron out of school to visit the pediatrician with his baby sister. It would mean him missing a day of school for no good reason and make Terri's job tougher as she had to occupy TWO kids while waiting in the doctor's office.

Terri's statement makes no sense if Baby K DID have an appt. But since she did not (apparently), it really does sound like a "how do you mess that up" kind of thing. Sounds like the teacher never objected to her taking Kyron out of school on the day of the Talent Show and IB Expo for what most schools would consider an unexcused absence. WHY wouldn't the teacher say something if that was REALLY what she thought Terri said? Terri can't really testify to what the teacher "understood" or "misunderstood", only what she THINKS the teacher THOUGHT she said. ?????

Unless this meshes with what the teacher says, It's neither incriminatory nor exculpatory. If it matches, it just seems... weird.

I don't want to bash the teacher but her credibility, imho, is nil. I believe the "everybody" who thought Kyron had a doctor's appointment, heard that from the teacher, who appears to have come to that conclusion after realizing that Kyron wasn't in an unauthorized bathroom break nor getting a drink. To be fair, it must have been quite a hectic day for her.

 

[debs]

I have wondered about this myself. You're right when you say kids are alert about what's going on. There is the fact that Kyron was marked absent at around 10a.m. that would indicate that the friend would by then believe Kyron wasn't going to be at lunch.

I'm lost here. What do you mean by unnamed sources? I read the article, and unless I just had too much sangria at the Mexican restaurant where I just ate,
doesn't this article name the boy he usually had lunch with?

Edit: Sorry, I thought I had quoted Bean's response to the article about the doctor appointment.

I was a substitute for an elementary school for several years, and I can tell you that children are very observant at this early age as to who is doing what. And lunch is a big deal with them...who sits where, etc.

In other words, if this boy who usually sat with him at lunch believed that he was going to be gone for the day, that's significant to me. Plus, his teacher thought so.

So, maybe all that is confirmed here is that there was a misunderstanding.

But in all my years of subbing, I can't remember one instance of such a misunderstanding. Whether or not a child was out for some reason was always a matter of importance, science fair or book fair, or whatever....it didn't matter.

 

[PaulaF513]

BBM. No, it didn't come from a comment on a news article, it came directly from a MSM news article.

Finster said Horman had told Kyron's teacher the day before that she was taking the boy to the doctor on Friday, June 11, and gave the teacher paperwork to fill out related to the appointment.


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

Has this paperwork ever surfaced?

 

[jadejazzkayla]

But
- Baby K did not have a doctor's appointment
- "Everyone" thought KYRON had an appointment
- It makes no sense to take Kyron out of school to visit the pediatrician with his baby sister. It would mean him missing a day of school for no good reason and make Terri's job tougher as she had to occupy TWO kids while waiting in the doctor's office.

Terri's statement makes no sense if Baby K DID have an appt. But since she did not (apparently), it really does sound like a "how do you mess that up" kind of thing. Sounds like the teacher never objected to her taking Kyron out of school on the day of the Talent Show and IB Expo for what most schools would consider an unexcused absence. WHY wouldn't the teacher say something if that was REALLY what she thought Terri said? Terri can't really testify to what the teacher "understood" or "misunderstood", only what she THINKS the teacher THOUGHT she said. ?????

Unless this meshes with what the teacher says, It's neither incriminatory nor exculpatory. If it matches, it just seems... weird.

here is the email exerpt that terri is said to have written:

The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with baby girl k. for a doctor’s appt. I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up?

I read this email like this: Because kyron was gone - The teacher thought i took kyron with (me and) baby k (to his aforementioned dr appt). as it has been reported that terri informed kyron's teacher on thursday june 3rd of kyron's friday june 11th dr appt.

and to me there is no way that the teacher mistakenly thought terry SAID these words. It is my opinion that the teacher understood that terry said she was going to look at other exhibits - but when kyron was reported missing by his group leader volunteer - and subsequently when he didn't return from the bathroom/bubbler, I think she assumed kyron left with terri and baby k - after terri and baby k. went to look at the other exhibits. never, of course, thinking that he could have been kidnapped.

Of course we don't know how the teacher worded her explanation to le.

and it may very well be that terri and the teacher were discussing kyron's upcoming dr appt right before terri said she was going to look at the other exhibits.

 

[LisaB]

here is the email exerpt that terri is said to have written:

The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with baby girl k. for a doctor’s appt. I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up?

Thanks for putting that up. The wording, to me, sounded like she and Baby were going to the doc and she was taking Kyron along with her. If it was HIS appointment, then she was "taking Baby K with Kyron to the doctor". Semantics. I'm being too literal.

 

[Calliope]

Facts-

Terri gave up custody and visitation of BabyK.
Her best friend will not testify before a Grand Jury without immunity.
Terri has never denied being involved in Kyron's disappearance.

With all due respect, none of those are 'facts'.

 

[Calliope]

Is it a fact that Dede won't testify without immunity? I missed that.

I also missed the part where Terri has never denied being involved in Kyron's disappearance.

 

[Calliope]

Very well. She would not testify. She cannot be compelled to testify unless she is given immunity. If you want to split hairs.

I've not seen anything where she said she WOULD not testify.

 

[Calliope]

Please provide a link where Terri has denied having anything to do with Kyron's disappearance.

How do you know what she said to LE and her attorney and others?

Just because she didn't say it to the media doesn't mean she never denied it.

 

[debs]

BeanE would no doubt have the link but I'm sure both Kaine and Desiree have stated that they didn't believe Terri when she said she didn't do anything to Kyron. thats enough for me to believe she made that statement.

 

[cluciano63]

BeanE would no doubt have the link but I'm sure both Kaine and Desiree have stated that they didn't believe Terri when she said she didn't do anything to Kyron. tarts enough for me to believe she made that statement.

a Freudian slip

 

[Calliope]

Did you miss the story of Dede leaving the courthouse where the grand jury was meeting? And we were told that she did not answer questions?

I feel that this thread has been started just to argue, not to actually collect facts.

Her attorney said she wasn't asked any questions.

A Multnomah County grand jury investigating the disappearance on Monday subpoenaed Terri Horman's close friend DeDe Spicher.

Spicher's attorney, Chad Stavely, said Spicher was asked no questions but told to return, possibly within a few weeks.

It was speculated that perhaps she was there to confirm her statement to LE.

 

[debs]

a Freudian slip

Android typing. Thumb typing is not my specialty!

 

[carbuff]

It's worth keeping in mind that at least 90% of what we've heard or read in the media is either hearsay or somebody's opinion. If we're talking about evidence that can be presented to a jury, then most of it's not eligible.

TH's dad saying what TH told him somebody else said is hearsay. A reliable source telling Willamette Weekly what people in the school are saying is hearsay. It's not admissible in court.

KH saying he doesn't believe TH is his opinion. It's a fact he thinks that but his opinion does not make TH a liar. It might or might not be true. That would have to be established with evidence. If there are cell pings, credit card receipts, etc. that would be evidence either for or against her truthfulness. People might testify where they saw her, and then the jury would have to evaluate conflicting testimony.

LE almost certainly has more evidence than we've seen. They might have opinions about where that evidence leads. But we don't know what that evidence is, and until it's presented to a jury we don't know what it is.

 

[chairdancer]

A lot of speculation that the GJ was convined for the purpose of an inditment of TH, I am of the opinion it was for the ability to get search warrants. We have read that sw were served at TH's nieghbor and her friends. Judges don't just sign them willy nilly there must be probable cause. That said the GJ can and does request search warrants. JMO

 

[TxLady2]

A lot of speculation that the GJ was convined for the purpose of an inditment of TH, I am of the opinion it was for the ability to get search warrants. We have read that sw were served at TH's nieghbor and her friends. Judges don't just sign them willy nilly there must be probable cause. That said the GJ can and does request search warrants. JMO

They can and do, but they are not convened JUST to obtain search warrants. You need to do some reading up on what the purpose of a GJ is.
The DA in this case would not have presented the case to them if he didn't have enough evidence to believe he can get an indictment.

LE can obtain search warrants without a grand jury intervening, as long as they have probable cause, and all they have to do is present that to a judge. Judges are normally on the side of LE... they hardly ever refuse.

 

[citigirl]

With all due respect, none of those are 'facts'.

Calliope, I have been told this thread is about hard physical evidence, so I am going to discuss my facts for the last time as that's apparently not what we are discussing here. I will agree that LE has not found any physical evidence--all their evidence is circumstantial.

But here is a quick MSM quote for my first fact:

"Houze said Terri agreed to move out, give up rights to custody, but the hearing will address financial and other issues. A date of September 21 was set aside for the contempt of court hearing." http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/Hearing-today-for-Kyrons-father-asking-step-mom-Terri-to-leave-home-98606239.html There are more like this on many news sites.

The second fact I must change to: Dede was subpoenaed to testify in front of the GJ, was seen leaving courthouse, smirking, the day she was to testify, and her attorney told the media she did not testify.

The third fact remains. Terri has never denied being involved in Kyron's disappearance.

But I know they are not hard physical evidence, which is what this thread about.

 

[nursebeeme]

I don't want to bash the teacher but her credibility, imho, is nil. I believe the "everybody" who thought Kyron had a doctor's appointment, heard that from the teacher, who appears to have come to that conclusion after realizing that Kyron wasn't in an unauthorized bathroom break nor getting a drink. To be fair, it must have been quite a hectic day for her.

busting on the teacher=I will not go there

moo