The "Affair"

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Bob&Bob said:
Thanks fran.

Do you have the link to the thing they removed?
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NO, I'm not sure I ever saw it. I think it may have been on the photo thread, or someone's personal photo bucket. They just said it's been removed.

That's all I know about it, sorry.

fran
 
fran said:
NO, I'm not sure I ever saw it. I think it may have been on the photo thread, or someone's personal photo bucket. They just said it's been removed.

That's all I know about it, sorry.

fran
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Well thanks for not yelling at me fran!
I guess you must be new!
 
SleuthyGal said:
I hope the facts of this case help the next wife and mother who is being controlled and verbally abused by her husband to take heed and plot her escape from the abuser well and long before she too ends up like Nancy did.

Such a control freak should never learn in advance that his wife is 'unhappy' and wants a divorce. She should do the best acting of her life and pretend all is well for as long as she needs to. But she should be socking away money and get herself a good and private plan to escape to save herself and her children.

NEVER EVER give a control freak abuser spouse information about what you want, ESPECIALLY if it's about gaining your independence. Never give your abuser the opportunity to 'snap' and do the ultimate control maneuver: murder.

Plot your escape carefully. Take your time. Make sure you have money in cash and hidden. Make sure you contact your local women's shelter and document what is happening with you. But SECRETLY! Do not leave evidence around where your control freak abuser might discover it.

Do whatever you have to do but PLOT YOUR ESCAPE, GET OUT, GET YOUR KIDS OUT, and SURVIVE!
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I agree with the last part of your post. This is definitely an instance when a concrete escape plan was needed.
 
fran said:
Interesting that Heather's ex husband is supporting Brad, with an affidavit on his behalf.

Strange, really strange.

Why would you stay friends with someone who had an affair with your, then wife?:crazy:

Interesting dynamics here at work......{{shakes head in amazement}}

:eek:
fran
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It could be one of those instances where the two "exes" end up re-bonding over mutual hatred of the ex-wife/mistress. Wierd. Stranger things have happened I guess. But, they have the same taste in women and probably similar stories to tell, they may very well still have a lot of things in common.:):crazy:
 
OMG...I had to stop reading and post without being totally caught up. I just CAN not believe she thought he was that bad of a father. I do NOT believe that she thought he would harm her girls. The woman went running ALL the time and left her girls with him.

PLUS on the eve of her death...she remained at this party...leaving him home with the girls until midnight. This does not sound like a woman that would say anything about how good of a father he was just to get out the marrige (as mentioned by an earlier post).

I'm looking at just these facts...if she felt they were endangered she would not have left them with him as she trained or the night before her untimely death (when things were probably at their worst). Not saying he's innocent but IMHO those two thoughts can not be put in the same sentence...some perspective here.
 
piedmontmom said:
OMG...I had to stop reading and post without being totally caught up. I just CAN not believe she thought he was that bad of a father. I do NOT believe that she thought he would harm her girls. The woman went running ALL the time and left her girls with him.

PLUS on the eve of her death...she remained at this party...leaving him home with the girls until midnight. This does not sound like a woman that would say anything about how good of a father he was just to get out the marrige (as mentioned by an earlier post).

I'm looking at just these facts...if she felt they were endangered she would not have left them with him as she trained or the night before her untimely death (when things were probably at their worst). Not saying he's innocent but IMHO those two thoughts can not be put in the same sentence...some perspective here.
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IMHO, to understand how it works in an abusive relationship, either just emotional, or both emotional AND physical abuse,(which btw, emotional abuse is just one second short of physical abuse) you have to either suffered this same type of relationship personally, or know someone who has.

For someone who's never been in this type of situation, it's difficult to see how the abused could continue to live and love the abuser. Take the abuse and stay, the abuser apologizes (honeymoon phase), everything is hunky-dory, .............until next time............it's a revolving door.

Often times the abuse doesn't start until AFTER marriage. Then other times, it could be the arrival of the first child. Time has passed, one is committed to the relationship, they can fix it. The abuser just needs a little time to get over it. Just,................don't make them angry, do the right thing, loose weight, don't talk to this and that person.........do what they want, when they want. Rumor of an affair, they deny it,...............but eventually they may admit it, ehhh.........but it's YOUR fault. It's YOUR fault they're mad! It's YOUR fault they strayed! It's YOUR fault we don't have any money! It's YOUR fault I didn't get that promotion! It's YOUR fault I didn't win that race! YOU need to clean the house better! YOU need to have my dinner ready when I get home! Why can't YOU do anything right? Why isn't MY stuff ready? It's MY money, I am the one that works around here! YOU don't need to go to work! YOU do NOT need to get an advanced degree, I DO! I want a NEW CAR! YOU can have the old one. It's YOUR FAULT I yelled at you in front of the kids! It's YOUR FAULT I'm so mad! It's YOUR FAULT I hit you! YOU CANNOT DO ANYTHING RIGHT, YOU'RE USELESS! NO ONE ELSE WOULD WANT YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO FAT! YOU'RE TOO OLD! YOU'VE GOT TWO KIDS, WHO WANTS A WOMAN WITH TWO KIDS WHEN THERE'S YOUNG GIRLS FREE of any baggage! SHE is so clumsy, SHE's always hurting herself. SHE ran into a door and got a black eye. SHE fell down the stairs and broke her arm. SHE tripped on the stairs and got that big knot on her leg.

Do NOT tell anyone what goes on in this household. This is between YOU and ME! NO ONE knows what goes on here except us. YOU are MY wife and you do NOT tell anybody what goes on between you and I.

"No one knows our marriage but Laci and I." That's what he said, Scott Peterson. AFTER he murdered his wife and dumped her in the Bay.

'Til death do us part, is what someone I used to know told his wife. And it almost came true. :(...SHE had the bite marks, the strangle marks, the bruises to lay testament. The only difference with my friend and the 100's of women who end up on the pages of Websleuths,..........she lived to tell about it.

Many, many people, just..don't..get..it! :(

JMHO
fran

PS.....Please don't be fooled by denials of the alleged abuser. They're very, very good at hiding the truth. That's why they get away with it. NO ONE knows what goes on behind those closed doors other than the two people involved. And then there was one..........fran
 
Fran,
That post ought to be bronzed and posted in every Dr's office in America - or where women could see it, read it, and recognize themselves - and where they could get help.

Bravo to you.
 
Divorce attorneys clearly know that women--especially women in emotionally abusive marriages--say "nice" things about their spouse as a father & agree to custodial arrangements that they would definitely not prefer--in order to get out of the horribly difficult marriage. Nancy agreed to sharing custody because it's was the only way that she had any chance of getting out of the marriage..... JMO[/QUOTE]

I apologize in advance. I can't agree with this last statement, relative to this case. I can't see NC agreeing to shared custody because it was her only way out of a horrible situation.

If she really thought he was a bad father, then why would she go jogging on a regular basis, leaving the kids with their father? Why would she leave them with him, as recent as the eve of her death, and remain at this party? If she truly did not trust him with the girls safety she wouldn't have left them in his care. I know I wouldn't have.
 
Fran, ITA, your post makes sense. I "get" the fear that an abused wife does feel. My comment was made relative to their custody of the kids, and their shared custody arrangement. She must have trusted him with the kids, otherwise why would she have left them on a regular basis for her training? Why would she have left them in his care as recent as the eve of her death? That is the point I was trying (albeit unsuccesfull) make.

This whole situation is sickening for all...by all means the families, but also for the neighbors. Somewhere on some thread (ICR) Wallsburg Ct seems like Wisteria Lane...I have to say I agreed. The neighbors seem to have known so much "dirt" in that marriage...I would have been uncomfortable to say the least. Another poster also said there are 3 sides to a story (NC, BC and the truth). These two seem to have treated each other very badly...NC seemed to have a flare for the drama. Just one of the things that bothers me is that she allegedly cashed a check for $350 on the eve of telling her friends he didn't give her money and that was why she had to sell clothes at a garage sale. I'm sad to say his rebuttal affadivit, if true (all of which can be checked out), shoots down a lot of what her friends alleged. Again, 3 sides to a story.

I haven't posted a lot lately...to be honest, I had to get away from the "drama", and now I am so far behind and am confusing all the threads.
 
RaleighNC said:
Fran,
That post ought to be bronzed and posted in every Dr's office in America - or where women could see it, read it, and recognize themselves - and where they could get help.

Bravo to you.
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Why thank you RaleighNC. I appreciate your comment.

The only problem is, many who would read it, think it couldn't happen to them. UNTIL it does. :(

fran
 
piedmontmom said:
Fran, ITA, your post makes sense. I "get" the fear that an abused wife does feel. My comment was made relative to their custody of the kids, and their shared custody arrangement. She must have trusted him with the kids, otherwise why would she have left them on a regular basis for her training? Why would she have left them in his care as recent as the eve of her death? That is the point I was trying (albeit unsuccesfull) make.

This whole situation is sickening for all...by all means the families, but also for the neighbors. Somewhere on some thread (ICR) Wallsburg Ct seems like Wisteria Lane...I have to say I agreed. The neighbors seem to have known so much "dirt" in that marriage...I would have been uncomfortable to say the least. Another poster also said there are 3 sides to a story (NC, BC and the truth). These two seem to have treated each other very badly...NC seemed to have a flare for the drama. Just one of the things that bothers me is that she allegedly cashed a check for $350 on the eve of telling her friends he didn't give her money and that was why she had to sell clothes at a garage sale. I'm sad to say his rebuttal affadivit, if true (all of which can be checked out), shoots down a lot of what her friends alleged. Again, 3 sides to a story.

I haven't posted a lot lately...to be honest, I had to get away from the "drama", and now I am so far behind and am confusing all the threads.
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I can tell you - there are several untruths in Brad's affidavits. All you have to do is check his website and the forums he posted to to understand that there are several items that should be viewed very cautiously. He is either lying online or he is lying in the affidavit - one or the other -either way he is lying. I don't buy his so called "truthfulness" anymore than anyother person signing an affadavit in this case. He does not need to smear his deceased wife in an affidavit if everything he says can be verified by records - he can state that without besmirching her. He chose to belittle her even after her death.

As to Nancy's drama it seems to me there may well be a somewhat justifable reason for it. Taking all the accounts in it seems clear that in April it was agreed that Nancy could return to Canada with the children, Brad even admits to looking for a job in Toronto. Something happened to change that. We know the children's passports were taken, even Brad admits that. That is controlling. Nancy may well have started letting alot of things out because of a pending custody battle, she may even have embellished while at it, but it seems reasonable and definitely not unheard of if one is going to be forced to fight for their children. Even Brad admits he made some changes to spend more time with his children which tends to indicate also an upcoming battle in which he wished to demonstrate his fatherhood. IMO there are many untruths in all of these affidavits on both sides but given the circumstances I would think it happens in most cases where custody is going to be an issue.

JMO
 
I think that the statements that can be checked out for truthfulness are there to lend veracity to the statements that cannot be verified.

Just because a statement can be verified does not mean it is true. Plus, those statements may be the forest hiding the trees of untruthfulness.

Maybe.

Respectfully,
RC

raisincharlie said:
I can tell you - there are several untruths in Brad's affidavits. A
JMO
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RoughlyCollie said:
I think that the statements that can be checked out for truthfulness are there to lend veracity to the statements that cannot be verified.

Just because a statement can be verified does not mean it is true. Plus, those statements may be the forest hiding the trees of untruthfulness.

Maybe.

Respectfully,
RC
Click to expand...

Yep - a big forest I think. :)
 
ITA agree, there are many half truths in all of these affadivits and the real truth is somewhere in between. And if I could, I'd like to make it clear that I haven't ruled him out either. I realize that my opinion doesn't really matter unless I was on a jury. I hope that I wouldn't be called as I am part of the pool if this goes to trial.

I just have a lot of unanswered questions, like everyone else. Regarding all the posts I've made this morning, I just can't believe that NC felt he was that much of a danger to their girls (as alleged by her family). This is not to say that now, under all the current stress, things could be different...but if she truly felt him to be a safety issue to their girls then why go running/training and leave them in his care? And again, why, as recent as the eve of her death, would she have remained out so late, again having the girls under his care? This doesn't gel with me, sorry to say.

I also find it really hard to believe the friend that told her that Nancy said he wanted to spend time with them this summer and then have nothing to ever do with them again...and that Brad could have suggested that he keep one girl and Nancy the other. If I were this friend, and Nancy told me this I would have had a hard time believing this.

Listen, I may just be naive or hopeful (for the girls sakes) that it wasn't their father. I agree, they don't need to be in the glare of all the dirt that is coming out. The really sad thing, is that one day they will be able to read.
 
piedmontmom said:
Fran, ITA, your post makes sense. I "get" the fear that an abused wife does feel. My comment was made relative to their custody of the kids, and their shared custody arrangement. She must have trusted him with the kids, otherwise why would she have left them on a regular basis for her training? Why would she have left them in his care as recent as the eve of her death? That is the point I was trying (albeit unsuccesfull) make.

This whole situation is sickening for all...by all means the families, but also for the neighbors. Somewhere on some thread (ICR) Wallsburg Ct seems like Wisteria Lane...I have to say I agreed. The neighbors seem to have known so much "dirt" in that marriage...I would have been uncomfortable to say the least. Another poster also said there are 3 sides to a story (NC, BC and the truth). These two seem to have treated each other very badly...NC seemed to have a flare for the drama. Just one of the things that bothers me is that she allegedly cashed a check for $350 on the eve of telling her friends he didn't give her money and that was why she had to sell clothes at a garage sale. I'm sad to say his rebuttal affadivit, if true (all of which can be checked out), shoots down a lot of what her friends alleged. Again, 3 sides to a story.

I haven't posted a lot lately...to be honest, I had to get away from the "drama", and now I am so far behind and am confusing all the threads.
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I see what you're saying piedmontmom and I think I can somewhat agree with you, in part.

Perhaps Nancy did over-dramatize some things. But,....we don't really know to what extent, she's not here to defend herself. But I do take into consideration that they were going through a divorce. Honestly though, I use what I've learned through studying several of these same sort of cases and people I know personally who've been through these sorts of things.

First, remember, we don't know for sure there was that $350 check and if there was, what was it for? Just because he said he can verify, doesn't mean he can, he's posturing now, like they do in opening statements in trials, promise the world and in the end, nadda........or it may have been to pay a particular bill while he was gone and that's what she did with it, a ha! he has proof she cashed a check.............see,

When this case first hit the news, one of the radio stations IIRC, had on their website, case after case after case, of children, entire families that had been wiped out by one of the parents, a divorce was in progress or had been finalized. When I saw that list, OhMyGoodness, I soooo remember name after name appearing here on Websleuths, AFTER they were all dead. Who knew? Who would think they could do that? Who thought they would kill their own children to hurt the other? Who knew?

We worked on a case here. A dad took his kids for a weekend, July 4th, IIRC. They were at a fireworks show, disappeared, days later the ex-husband showed up in a hotel in California, 3000 mi away. No kids. He goes to jail. Commits suicide. Where are the kids? We were trying to help figure out where they were. We were very, very close. They found them, one or two years later, a woman walking her dog, shallow grave, marked by little crosses........it broke our hearts. :( We knew how it would end, but we didn't want it that way.

Nancy knew Brad didn't like her, he wanted a divorce. He hated her, not the kids. She was afraid for herself, not the kids. He didn't want to pay her alimony. He didn't want to give her the proceeds of the house. He didn't want to give her the newer car, paid off. He didn't want her to move to Canada. He didn't want her to work. He didn't want her to spend HIS money.

Nancy was afraid for herself, NOT the KIDS. She was trapped. Trapped in a crummy marriage, trapped in a foreign country where IF she got a divorce, she could be deported to Canada, loosing her kids because they're U.S. citizens. (it happens ALL the TIME here in Cali, parents deported leaving several AMerican born (citizen) children behind. ALL the TIME. Daily.

He wanted her out of the house. He wanted her to run back to Canada with the kids. He kept moving the date up. First the end of summer, then June, then the end of April. Canada, out of here, he didn't want to see her or the kids again. But when the time was approaching, AFTER he'd been given a copy of the separation form and saw how much he'd have to pay, he took away the children's passports. She was TRAPPED.........her excuse to friends was the divorce was on hold until she could get her green card. SHE was here AS BRAD'S WIFE. She could NOT get a divorce or she would be deported. He refused to leave the home, slept in another room.

When Nancy started earning money by painting houses for her friends, he decided she didn't need any money from HIM, she had some because she was getting paid by her friends to paint.

This is getting long, so I just want to say one more thing. What did that note mean? Nancy found Brad's note that had one of the daughter's favorite color on it and on the other side it had bank accounts, life insurance, wills........?

What did it mean?

fran

PS.....she should have taken her friends up on their offer when she told them about the note, just days before she was murdered. They wanted to go and pack her things up and have her stay with them.........Who knew?...fran
 
Again, Fran, I see your points in your last post. I'm new here and do not have much (well, to be honest, any) experience in sleuthing. I was drawn to this case becasue, we're local, my kids walk around Lochmere (although I don't live there) and because a google search brought me to this site early on in the whole thing. I waited a few days to register and had to wait to be approved. I'll admit, I am holding out hope that he didn't do it, mostly because I wonder how people/fathers/husbands can do this sort of thing. Obviously it happens though. But before I'd convict someone I'd want many of my doubts reasonably answered. My posting this morning, related to the custody issue, and I think I found the right custody thread and have posted there.

Again, I don't do this enough (well, at all) to watch trends. When we first moved here the town of Cary was referred to as "camelot" by friends we've made in neighboring towns. There is a stigma associated to Cary and all the dirt that has come out just perpetuates it. I had to take a break from here and, like I said before, I am so behind. I have been curious...is it common for LE to repeatedly say that the husband is NOT the POI or even a suspect? It seems to have been dragged out longer than I would have anticipated. Does it take so long for an autopsy report to come back? I've read that it's becoming common place to seal search warrants now. I'd tend to think if it were a "slam dunk" he would have been charged already.

I wouldn't give credance to some of the things mentioned by her friends because many have reasonable explanations. It bothers me when they say that Nancy was the one responsible for day to day child care, thereby insinuating that he didn't care...Being a SAHM...I'd say "next argument...since SAHM, by default, are the ones responsible for day to day. Dad is at work, how can he changing diapers, doing laundry, etc".

I dont' like that saying he is socially inept/awkward makes him a bad husband...seriously, with the amount of knowledge her friends had on their marriage...if I were him I wouldn't want to show my face and hang out with them either. My mother always told me "it takes two".

Need to end this post, and possibly, get back to my day at hand.
 
fran said:
IMHO, to understand how it works in an abusive relationship, either just emotional, or both emotional AND physical abuse,(which btw, emotional abuse is just one second short of physical abuse) you have to either suffered this same type of relationship personally, or know someone who has.

For someone who's never been in this type of situation, it's difficult to see how the abused could continue to live and love the abuser. SNIP

Many, many people, just..don't..get..it! :(

JMHO
fran

PS.....Please don't be fooled by denials of the alleged abuser. They're very, very good at hiding the truth. That's why they get away with it. NO ONE knows what goes on behind those closed doors other than the two people involved. And then there was one..........fran
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree here. Sorry. I was married to man who emotionally abusive and threaten physical abuse many times. I do agree that I kept most of it to myself and did not share, not even with family. But I did not love him after his true self became obvious to me. I kept busy with my job and entered school. It was there that I focused all my attention and did well. It was there that I also gained confidence needed. After a period of time I knew there was only a certain way out of the marriage and I put a plan into place with a time frame in which to accomplish it. Once I separated my income and accounts and talked with a counselor, I broke the news that I was filing. That was when it became very tough and frightening. Then I let family know. I also made it very clear to him that if anything happened to me, he would be the first suspect. That was 14 years ago.

Happily married now, but it is not easy. Marriage is hard work, no matter what!
 
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