The aftermath of the verdict *MERGED*

Discussion in 'Allison Baden-Clay of Australia' started by Spotted Reptile, Jul 15, 2014.

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  1. Freya1977

    Freya1977 Well-Known Member

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    It seems that it was the wording of the possible cause of the haemorrhage that was suppressed, not the actual evidence itself. He did testify that she had a possible haemorrhage from blunt force trauma - seems he just wasn't allowed to infer that it was "from an assault".

    Thanks for posting this document!
     


  2. Aliwonders

    Aliwonders New Member

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    She did cheat on her partner. She didn't leave her partner until after the affair with GBC and she was having an affair with a married man. What makes people think that to snag someone who is prepared to have an affair makes for a good catch!! It is wrong to be unfaithful to your husband or wife. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence but it
    still needs to be mowed!!!
     
  3. ollijack

    ollijack Member

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    I have been extremely hard hearted when it comes to Toni, but your post made me think....if only for
    her poor sons then yep I can cope with her getting paid for the interview...it may help her set up
    a safe home for them....
    thankyou for making me think,
    I think 60 minutes have done a 'makeover' on her, lots of makeup etc:thinking:
     
  4. sheldor

    sheldor New Member

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    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-...-argued-no-evidence-to-support-murder/5584414

    ""If what happened was, after she scratched him, she fell forward, bumped her head and died of a subdural haemorrhage, his conduct afterwards looks pretty odd.

    "If a death had been an unintentional consequence, no-one in his situation would've done what he did.


    "What he did involved disposing of a body in an undignified way, in a manner calculated to prevent its discovery.

    "He then engages in serious subterfuge. He lies about the scratches and does more than that. He uses the razor blade to create the appearance some hours later of scratches on the face.

    "He then lies to the police about these things and maintains the deception and has never departed from it.

    "All the trouble he went to for so long is indicative of something more than an accident that he'd rather forget."

    Yes, exactly what I was thinking!
     
  5. Miash

    Miash New Member

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    Not sure if this has been clarified as I have not caught up on all the posts so sorry if it has. I was actually in the main courtroom the day the guilty verdict was handed down. I was seated directly behind GBC brother Adam. Yes GBC mother left pretty much straight after the verdict was handed down but GBC father, Olivia and Adam remained until after GBC was led from the court room at which time Adam lent over the rail in front of him to call out "love ya mate" to GBC. Olivia then said to father not to leave the court yet. Wait here. Wait here. Until everyone leaves. I could also see Olivia's reflection in the glass paneling in front of her (behind GBC in the dock). Throughout the whole experience, handing down of verdict, GBC struggling to breathe (which to me was that he wanted to leave the courtroom and not listen to the impact statements being read) and shaking uncontrollably Olivia did not shed one tear or change her expression. Her eyes just darted between GBC and looking straight ahead. Another thing that did concern me was when the guilty verdict had been delivered GBC father did slump in his chair and age about 20 years IMOO but from where I sat I could see that his breathing escalated and it was visually obvious. He was taking very quick deep breaths I was concerned he may have a heart attack or something. He also remained expressionless. I managed to congratulate the detectives while leaving the courtroom for their wonderful work and successful conviction. Also congratulated The wonderful Todd Fuller and agave Mrs Dickie a big hug. She is a very strong, amazing woman and an inspiration to all. Allison will can RIP knowing that her beautiful girls and being cared for and raised by her loving and devoted Mother and Father.
     
  6. ollijack

    ollijack Member

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    Does anyone know if its legally, morally (ok) for the girls to have to see their
    father, he is now a murderer who murdered their mother. I think its sick if they
    have to see him MOO

    :notgood:
     
  7. sheldor

    sheldor New Member

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    There will probably be applications for custody and access now that the trial is over. I don't know whether there were any temporary orders granting custody to the Dickies or not. It depends upon whether a Court grants him access to the children. I don't know about Australian law but in NZ it would usually be difficult to argue that a father who killed a mother should have unsupervised access but given that his access is going to be supervised for at least the next 15 years, they may grant him supervised access! Hopefully counsel will be appointed for the children and they can express their wishes through them as to whether they want to see him or not. But it will depend upon whether a court thinks it is in the children's best interests, not Gerards. This is all speculative on my part and I don't know what the Aussie law is on custody and access.

     
  8. DrWatson

    DrWatson Verified Thoracic and Vascular Surgeon

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    My opinion, for what it's worth, is that even IF the tiny amount of granular material found overlying Allison's left cerebral hemisphere WAS a small subdural haemorrhage, it was nowhere near significant enough to be a cause of death. Which is also what Dr Milne thought. The possibility - however vague - of blunt force trauma could not be ruled out 100%, as the microscopy didn't confirm that is WAS a small subdural haematoma, but of course it therefore couldn't confirm that it WASN'T either. That's why Milne had to say he couldn't exclude blunt force trauma. But blunt force trauma of sufficient impact to cause death would be a heck of a lot more obvious than the tiny amount of granular material that was found. Major contusions, decent-sized haematoma, intracerebral haemorrhage, and many other possible findings would have been present if a blow to the head had caused death. Not necessarily all of them together, but several. The decomposition notwithstanding, the signs would have been there, and Dr Milne would have been able to postulate a cause of death.

    But as we know - he couldn't.

    As I've said before, I know the way Dr Milne works and words his reports, and those mentions that were blocked by Judge Applegarth were just Milne being thorough, but which could - in the right hands - have been used to lead him on the witness stand to imply something that wasn't a fact, just a speculation. Without him having the opportunity to express it the way HE would have. I'm not suggesting that lawyers - defence or prosecution - would put words into Milne's mouth, but it's by what they STOP him from saying that could lead to an inference that he never intended. Hence Applegarth's block of those very specific phrases.

    Alioop may like to comment if she is reading...
     
  9. Curiousasacat

    Curiousasacat New Member

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    Wow Miash,
    Thank you for this description. I would have loved to have given Mrs Dickie a hug too. : (


    I guess you are right, GB was probably hoping to be taken away so he wouldn't have to listen to the people who loved Allison the most.
     
  10. BigT

    BigT Well-Known Member

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    My take on this is, if GBC were to direct or request that TM were to be payed for the interview, then that would make her payment a "proceed" and it could be confiscated.

    The meaning of a proceed is:
    Proceeds, in relation to an activity, includes property and another benefit derived because of the activity—

    (a) by the person who engaged in the activity; or
    (b) by another person at the direction or request, directly or indirectly, of the person who engaged in the activity.

    The payment for interview is derived because of the activity (ie the interview is valuable only because of the murder)

    The only thing standing between an application to have the payment seized is the evidence to support an application to seize. It is a civil matter as I understand it, QPS or anyone can make the application, and I would love to see the payment redirected to the trust for the girls.

    Someone needs to sleuth out the evidence that GBC has a knowledge of the pay for interview, and all he would have said is that she should be payed for it, a recording of the phone call from AGCC where he discussed the interview with TM would do it.

    There is no way he didn't know it was being done, who is to say she has not done it to fund his appeal??
     
  11. Venus13

    Venus13 New Member

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    Wow thank you for posting this link catswhiskers I am really shocked it just shows we have never been wrong over the last 2 years 3 months about GBC or the BC's it is truly unbelievable how they have behaved!
     
  12. MsAnais

    MsAnais Verified Clinical Psychologist (AU)

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    It's such a complex emotional situation for those girls. There really are no simple answers to that IMO.

    Ideally, the girls wishes are being listened to - ie. if they don't want to see him they don't have to. It certainly shouldn't be forced upon them. That could be incredibly traumatising and cause huge inner turmoil.

    I'm really hoping that each girl is seeing a wonderful therapist to help them through this terribly difficult time. There's no way they can deal with something of this emotional magnitude on their own. And if money is an issue, I'd hope there would be therapists who are willing to see them for free, as service work. If I was up there I would definitely be offering that to the Dickies.

    Those poor, poor girls. They've lost SO much. Thank heavens they have such wonderful grandparents and extended Dickie family. That will be their saving grace.
     
  13. Saxons

    Saxons Member

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    Agreed. Her new name is all over the net.. Very easy to find.
     
  14. Zanzibar

    Zanzibar New Member

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    But Dr Milne said, "if if it was a haemorrhage then it was, in the context of the examination “the most likely cause of death”.


     
  15. Spotted Reptile

    Spotted Reptile New Member

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    I'm stunned. I didn't think this family could surprise me any further but it seems each day brings new insights into their warped and twisted mindset. Didn't they think they had to show concern, even if they didn't feel it? Was their arrogance so high they thought they didn't need to answer to anybody at all?
    God the life poor Allison must have led with those delightful in-laws to suffer, apart from her husband. It's amazing to me she managed to raise three beautiful daughters. Her loving spirit and generosity have saved those girls in many ways.
     
  16. Mrs G Norris

    Mrs G Norris Well-Known Member

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    One thing I think it's important to say about TM is that she was involved with a Class A manipulator, who was also in a position of power within her own workplace and in the industry in general. I'm not saying having an affair with a man who says he is about to leave his wife for you is a wonderful idea by any stretch, but it's not one undertaken from a position of great self esteem either.
     
  17. ollijack

    ollijack Member

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    Thankyou sweet Isisrising.....that makes me feel better....:loveyou:
     
  18. ollijack

    ollijack Member

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    I am totally surrounded by lovely people, Im thinking im a bitter twisted old bag ROFL....thankyou for these gentle
    points of view...it all makes me think and that's a good thing xxxxx

    :loveyou::loveyou:
     
  19. BatWoman

    BatWoman Member

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    I don't blame Toni for taking the cash, except that it's hardly going to give her the freedom to move on that she wants. Now everyone knows what she looks like (a lot different imo), knows what she's doing, and knows she has a new name (and can find out what it is). People who didn't know will now be pointing her out. And how will it affect her kids?

    I won't be watching her self-pity and justification fest. I've seen enough.
     
  20. BJsleuth

    BJsleuth New Member

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    It's the right of the child to see him. The eldest is old enough to decide for herself. Even in circumstances such as this, those rights remain. The court believes it's important for another reason - so children don't build a fantasy of the parent in absentia which can cause them problems. If it can be proven that he's treated the children badly as he did Allison then there is a case to refuse to make orders that they see him. It goes that just because he harmed their their mother, it doesn't mean he'll harm them. I don't agree with it, but it's the law. The children will have a court appointed, independent advocate in any proceedings.
     
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