The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[ZsaZsa]

If she was on the floor, I would have to say it depended on his position in regards to her position. BUT yes it would seem it very easily could have. Plus you add in the factor of even more weight coming crashing down on her skull. Especially if he is swinging from a standing position to down maybe on a knee. That's a whole hell of a lot more force when you add the weight of the flashlight and the velocity of the potential swing.
But, I did do the transcriptions of those shows for this web forum and I don't remember them saying it occurred twice. But she DID have other injuries such as bruising and abrasions. so it could be very likely a workable hypothesis.
JMOO of course.

In the Jan 8th interview with the child specialist, BR was asked "How do you think she was killed?" he immediately got up and twice made violent bashing movements...... that made me shudder and the commentator (IIRC Clemente) said " he just demonstrated how he killed her".

 

[PositiveLight]

Tell that to my son. When he was 4, he ate ramen noodles for the time. My wife had to dig the poop out of his butt because it was like modeling clay.

Hahahaha I'm sorry to laugh but I know how you feel! Laughing more at my own memories of my kids and constipation. It was a huge thing to get my son to go to potty because he would rather be playing than sitting on the toilet. So there were many days where he was constipated due to putting it off for so long. (I have no clue how kids can function so well and be constipated!!) Anyway as a nurse, poop comes in many different forms and consistency. I've seen it all. So yes you could easily mold it if it wasn't diarrhea or loose stool. Omg it's so disgusting to even imagine doing that!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[flourish]

100% agree, I think you're right. It doesn't make sense to me that it would be a "ball". Fecal matter is usually pretty soft, its not like clay where you can mold it.

Lol. I've had the amazing opportunity to come in contact with lots and lots of feces through my career. Way more than I ever wanted or needed to see. Feces comes in all sorts of textures and consistencies. Where one is when they void their bowels can play a part, too. For example, if you're on the toilet, your feces looks like... Well, like you pooped into the toilet and keeps its original shape. But if you're sitting down and poo in your pants, it will typically look smooshed. I mean, do your poops always look identical? What if you ate a bunch if Oreo cookies? Gross, but if a person engages in fecal smearing, I don't think it's a stretch to consider they may mold it into a ball to freak out their little sister or whatever.

Yikes now I'm having flashbacks to all the poo discussion which occurred in the Amanda Knox threads, where I became somewhat of a poo expert. Yuck. 💩

 

[PositiveLight]

In the Jan 8th interview with the child specialist, BR was asked "How do you think she was killed?" he immediately got up and twice made violent bashing movements...... that made me shudder and the commentator (IIRC Clemente) said " he just demonstrated how he killed her".

Yes he sure did! You are very right! Made me shiver!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[ZsaZsa]

What was Lou Smit's answer for the 118K Magna Carta of a ransom note ? I have been searching and searching and can find nothing about this in his reports. I want to know how he can explain this away as I think this is the smoking gun, the one piece of damning evidence that links the Ramsey's themselves to this crime. IMO it was written so as to lead cops to the company John owned knowing it had 500 + employees and they thought this would be enough to clear them.

So has anyone seen Smit address this issue?

I haven't seen anything attributed directly to Smit but in Kolar's book, p 242, he is discussing how fixed Smit was in his Sexual Predator Intruder theory and couldn't be budged from that position. Re the ransom note, Kolar says Smit felt "A ransom note was left by the perpetrator with the intention of misleading authorities about the true nature of the crime". Smit believed the Ramseys implicitly.

 

[PositiveLight]

IIRC someone mentioned on the forums that Smit was brought in to prove the possibility of it being an intruder. Not sure what thread or who said it (I'm sorry!) But I'd be interested to know if that info is in any of the books or old footage. Any long term sleuths know if this is true?
If it is then that explains why he was so heavily invested in his findings. He may have never looked at any other evidence that didn't point directly to an intruder.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[ZsaZsa]

IIRC someone mentioned on the forums that Smit was brought in to prove the possibility of it being an intruder. Not sure what thread or who said it (I'm sorry!) But I'd be interested to know if that info is in any of the books or old footage. Any long term sleuths know if this is true?
If it is then that explains why he was so heavily invested in his findings. He may have never looked at any other evidence that didn't point directly to an intruder.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I just looked at Kolar's book and he talks about when/why Smit was brought onboard by Hunter. Smit and Steve Ainsworth from Boulder co Sheriff's dept were tasked with looking at the evidence in the case from the perspective of the defense team.... a valuable strategy when you are trying to identify the weaknesses in a case that you might one day be prosecuting. He quickly became convinced ( after 3 days) that a single intruder, a violent pedophile was responsible. No discussion of the evidence from then on could ever shift him from that position. He admitted he didn't read much about the case, just did his own investigation. Open window/scuff mark on the wall/ suitcase/boot print/stun gun marks/empathy for the parents. Even after Stun Gun manufacturers stated that Stun Guns did not leave those marks, he would not change his mind.. He was held in high regard by other Detectives for his life's work, but his theory set their case back by months.

From Foreign Faction by A James Kolar.

 

[k-mac]

positive light
thank you for your theory...it makes 100% sense!
so agree with the strangling.
it really fits with the possibility of JBR fitting or something really disturbing from her head trauma and just wanting it to stop.
horrific as it sounds it just makes sense.

mum and dads staging can only be clocked up to sheer panic and shock.....participating in a crazy auto pilot fashion.

what is the most bizzaar is how parents could carry on with said front knowing what a violent mentally disturbed individual they were protecting........​WHY????????????????

 

[Heymom]

I haven't seen anything attributed directly to Smit but in Kolar's book, p 242, he is discussing how fixed Smit was in his Sexual Predator Intruder theory and couldn't be budged from that position. Re the ransom note, Kolar says Smit felt "A ransom note was left by the perpetrator with the intention of misleading authorities about the true nature of the crime". Smit believed the Ramseys implicitly.

"My mind is made up, so don't try to confuse me with the facts." - Lou Smit

He believed them because they were Christian and wouldn't lie. A blind spot the size of Cincinnati.

 

[Sparko96]

Burke is the only one who doesn't even need a motive. He has no filter and seems even now self-obsessed and unempathetic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wildebeest]

Ok. Here is where I am at in my mind as of this moment.
Who actually had motive to kill JonBenet in the family?
Patsy- JonBenet wet the bed constantly. Maybe this could be a reason to snap after a long few exhausting weeks. BUT. Would she really do that considering even Burke admitted they both wet the bed and soiled themselves? Frustrated maybe but not enough IMHO to land a blow to her beauty queen's head and then strangle her. Spank her even.. quite possibly! But I don't think she would intentionally harm her. IMHO this death was intentional. An adult would know that hitting anyone with a heavy object would possibly kill them.
John- She was possibly being molested and John would obviously be on the list of suspects. But why kill her? Just saying IF he HAD been molesting her, why would he kill her? Maybe she threatened to tell is the ONLY reason I could think of. He had, IMHO the least motive.
Burke- Now this is where the motives build up significantly in my humble opinion. Let's start with jealousy. Jealous is a mother of a reason to kill. Burke had all attention on him until JonBenet came along. Then he was (at least in his mind probably) knocked off the "the tit" as us southerners say. He wasn't as important anymore as JonBenet was. (again in his mind possibly). Then add all of the attention his mother gave to JonBenet as the years wore on, and you have a serious storm brewing. Especially if he had any underlying psych issues. Then all of the money and attention the pageants brought to her. The extended family being involved in her costumes and such. Maybe in his mind SHE was getting to do all of these things and mama was watching her gleaming at her future beauty queen. I know that it has been said that Burke was involved in a lot of extra curricular activities, but you have to wonder how MANY were just to keep him busy and no one was fawning over his accomplishments as they did for JonBenet. So basically his activities were only to keep him occupied. Also to make the family look perfect with their kids involved in so many things.
Now, add in other components such as not getting the gifts he wanted (this is kind of something I feel is probably true considering he couldn't even remember the gift he just HAD to sneak down and play with that night) and maybe JonBenet getting everything she wanted. Maybe tensions were quickly rising that morning/ afternoon. By that evening he was totally pi$$ed, especially when he gets home and notices he really didn't get much. MAYBE that's why he snuck down to the basement. To check and see if maybe his parents were hiding a special gift for him for their trip?
Anyway, Burke is eating pineapple and drinking his tea and his little sister who he's possibly seriously despising at this point, come and steals his pineapple. Oh Hell NO. He's had ENOUGH of his bratty spoiled sister. He grabs the flashlight nearby that maybe he used to sneak a peek at the gifts and chases her with it. He's hit her before and got away with it. No telling honestly how many times either. She's thinking she's being chased in fun and jest. Burke however is not in the least bit happy. She runs to the basement where they play, and in the privacy of the basement is when he makes his move. He hits her hard and means it. Maybe he didn't quite realize how fatal it could be but he wanted her to feel his pain some. When she doesn't get up, he just pokes at her with the train track. Maybe she's having seizures or doing something uncontrollably and he doesn't want his mama who may be packing upstairs to hear her. So he finds the cord (used for something entirely different usually) and chokes her from behind. To make her stop doing whatever her body is doing in the last throws of life. He at this point maybe did the strangling out of fear and panic. His mama might have noticed at some point JonBenet wasn't in her bed while she was packing and found her dead. That may have been the scream heard by neighbors. Then the cover-up occurred by the parents. He was sent to his room to stay out of the way. They would deal with him later.
I feel Burke had the most to gain from her death in his eyes at least. This is all my humble opinion, but this is where my mind is at right now. Burke did it in a white hot fit of rage. Something he was prone to probably.

:goodpost:

I agree with your summary, Positive. I really don't think Patsy murdered her daughter, as she had gotten a taste of reliving her life through her daughter, and would continue to do so for a long time. JBR was the bright light in Patsy's rather miserable life, being married to an emotionless man, and raising a young son with issues. Patsy lived for the pageants and all that went along with it. And, I agree John didn't have a motive to murder his daughter, either. So, we are down to the last person in the house that evening. PositiveLight has given a detailed scenario of what might have happened that Christmas night almost twenty years ago.

IMHO

 

[emirates1957]

If you would care to read the many, many posts on the subject, you will note that the majority of posters here are expressing empathy for Burke, as this is a tragedy even in the case of him being primarily involved in her death. So, no, there has been little or no maliciousness.

And, by the way, there are no dingos in Boulder, CO. So, that comparison has no bearing on what happened here. Look at the evidence, not what did or did not happen elsewhere. And, please, leave your preconcieved notions at the door.

Still in catch up mode. I think I can speak on behalf of Prime Suspect .....a little bit of Aussie humour here....no preconceived notions AT ALL. Love reading your posts Prime.

 

[BBB167893]

A watched some of the A&E special it was dumb. I stopped watching when they brought "experts" in that said that she was strangled first. I believe they referenced what they believed are her own nail marks around the ligature. Those don't look like nail marks there is no blood they look like bruising.

That's what they are, Ashley613. They're petechial hemorrhages, bleeding under the skin. These "experts" couldn't even be bothered to read the actual autopsy report, at least not all of it.

 

[BBB167893]

Did anyone watch the 3 part Show on ID? The last episode they had a recent interview with John Mark Karr.... I don't even know what to say. If he was as crazy in 2006 as he clearly is now how could they take him seriously at all as a suspect? Lacy should have been tarred and feathered on that one. Please watch if you haven't. It physical made me uncomfortable watching.

I agree completely. For all of the important information the ID show put out, and there was some, that was nothing but exploitation. And just so you know, Ashley, someone called mary Lacy after the JMK debacle and told her, "you should be tarred and feathered." I can only say it's a damn shame that not enough people in Boulder felt that way. She SHOULD have been run out of office.

 

[PositiveLight]

I just looked at Kolar's book and he talks about when/why Smit was brought onboard by Hunter. Smit and Steve Ainsworth from Boulder co Sheriff's dept were tasked with looking at the evidence in the case from the perspective of the defense team.... a valuable strategy when you are trying to identify the weaknesses in a case that you might one day be prosecuting. He quickly became convinced ( after 3 days) that a single intruder, a violent pedophile was responsible. No discussion of the evidence from then on could ever shift him from that position. He admitted he didn't read much about the case, just did his own investigation. Open window/scuff mark on the wall/ suitcase/boot print/stun gun marks/empathy for the parents. Even after Stun Gun manufacturers stated that Stun Guns did not leave those marks, he would not change his mind.. He was held in high regard by other Detectives for his life's work, but his theory set their case back by months.

From Foreign Faction by A James Kolar.

Thank you so much!!! I would go as far as to say it continues to hold it back.

 

[PositiveLight]

positive light
thank you for your theory...it makes 100% sense!
so agree with the strangling.
it really fits with the possibility of JBR fitting or something really disturbing from her head trauma and just wanting it to stop.
horrific as it sounds it just makes sense.

mum and dads staging can only be clocked up to sheer panic and shock.....participating in a crazy auto pilot fashion.

what is the most bizzaar is how parents could carry on with said front knowing what a violent mentally disturbed individual they were protecting........​WHY????????????????

I totally agree! WHYY??? I can imagine they slept with their door locked. I know I definitely would!!!! LOcked chained, bolted, door under the knob maybe even a dresser!

 

[BBB167893]

What was Lou Smit's answer for the 118K Magna Carta of a ransom note ? I have been searching and searching and can find nothing about this in his reports. I want to know how he can explain this away as I think this is the smoking gun, the one piece of damning evidence that links the Ramsey's themselves to this crime. IMO it was written so as to lead cops to the company John owned knowing it had 500 + employees and they thought this would be enough to clear them.

So has anyone seen Smit address this issue?

He did, dizzychick. You'll love this: he said that it proved the killed planned to flee to Mexico because $118,000 is close to one million pesos with the exchange rate. :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Wow, my forehead hurts now!

 

[PositiveLight]

positive light
thank you for your theory...it makes 100% sense!
so agree with the strangling.
it really fits with the possibility of JBR fitting or something really disturbing from her head trauma and just wanting it to stop.
horrific as it sounds it just makes sense.

mum and dads staging can only be clocked up to sheer panic and shock.....participating in a crazy auto pilot fashion.

what is the most bizzaar is how parents could carry on with said front knowing what a violent mentally disturbed individual they were protecting........​WHY????????????????

I totally agree! WHYY??? I can imagine they slept with their door locked. I know I definitely would!!!! LOcked chained, bolted, door under the knob maybe even a dresser!

 

[BBB167893]

Ok, probably not the right place for this but I've searched and can't find any mention elsewhere. My local paper in Australia is pushing a new book by Nick van der Leek and Lisa Wilson called The Craven Silence. Anyone read it? Worth getting? Apparently it's BDI with the baseball bat / golf club because of jealousy over the new bike.

Hi, Me66. I'm googling it now. Here's one:

https://www.amazon.com/Craven-Silence-Crime-Worldwide-Vintage-ebook/dp/B01LWV2CXK

 

[PositiveLight]

Now that I am back home, I wanted to watch the show aired on Sunday as John's rebuttal. What is it called? The only one on demand is the one from a while back on A&E. Anyone know where I can watch it at and what was it called?