The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 10th July - Trial Day 18

Discussion in 'Allison Baden-Clay of Australia' started by marlywings, Jun 3, 2014.

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  1. Freya1977

    Freya1977 Well-Known Member

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    How can they be considering manslaughter? That doesn't make sense. It just doesn't. What scenario could fit an unintentional accident with scratches to his face? Hopefully they get it when he explains it again.
     


  2. Smegal

    Smegal Member

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  3. Thinking

    Thinking New Member

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    Speaking of wedding rings, was super Todd wearing one?

    (Joking)

    ETA just saw your post re TF squizzey, this is my last reference, promise ;)
     
  4. MRSA

    MRSA Member

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    1. Heated argument over TM.
    2. Argument becomes physical - slaps, scratches.
    3. GBC restrains ABC.
    4. In the course of restraining ABC, GBC smothers and kills her.
    5. GBC panics and hides the body, then concocts a story that ABC must have gone walking.
    You have the following elements of murder established beyond reasonable doubt:

    • GBC killed ABC
    • The killing was unlawful
    However, you have not established beyond reasonable doubt that GBC intended to kill or do GBH to ABC. Therefore the only verdict open to the jury is guilty of manslaughter.
     
  5. BJsleuth

    BJsleuth New Member

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    I wouldn't pay any heed to that. Yesterday they were saying the jury had retired to deliberate.
     
  6. Onlyone

    Onlyone New Member

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  7. FigTree

    FigTree Well-Known Member

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    for those catching up...

    From the Websleuths Re-Tweet Team...

    Day 18 – MSM Tweets Additional collection - (Jury in Deliberation)
    Posted prior on this thread

    Continued from Page 1 of today's tweets
    12.44 pm
    Websleuths Australian Time
    -----


    Sarah Elks ‏@sarahelks 1m
    After only a couple of minutes in the courtroom, the jury has been asked to return to its deliberations. #badenclay

    Francene Norton ‏@francenenorton 51s
    Jury was called back in. Justice Byrne told them if they want to hear parts of the summing up again, he'll read it to them

    Eammon Atkinson ‏@EAtkinson7 2m
    #BadenClay jury has asked for a copy of the judge's summary. Prosecution and Defence don't want them to have it.
    Judge has told jury he will re-read parts of his summary if they want to be reminded of it. #BadenClay

    Leonie Mellor ‏@leoniemellor 55s
    Judge: jury request copy of summing, both Crown and Defence prefer any part to be read in courtroom. @abcnews #badenclay

    Leonie Mellor ‏@leoniemellor 55s
    Judge: jury request copy of summing, both Crown and Defence prefer any part to be read in courtroom. @abcnews #badenclay

    12:43pm: Justice Byrne acknowledged the jury had requested for a copy of his summation of the closing addresses from the prosecution and defence counsels.
    He declined their request and asked the jury to give a written note to the Bailiff requesting for parts, or all, of his summation to be read again in open court.
    The jury has resumed its deliberations.
    Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz371uYUG17

    Ebony Cavallaro ‏@ebonycavallaro 16m
    Tick tock on the clock, #badenclay jury deliberating for 1 hour 20 mins now. Still a large group waiting outside court @9NewsBrisbane

    Francene Norton ‏@francenenorton 25s
    The jury has been called back into the courtroom. They've been deliberating for two hours

    David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 36s
    Justice John Byrne has asked the jury to come back to court #badenclay @couriermail

    Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 43s
    Jurors have returned to court - this is NOT a verdict. They are receiving a direction from the judge. #badenclay

    David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 46s
    I had not expected to see you so soon but an important matter brought to my attention - Justice Byrne

    Sarah Elks ‏@sarahelks 32s
    Justice Byrne is warning the #badenclay jury not to use the internet, after one brought a 'how to deliberate' guide into the jury room.

    Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 59s
    Judge is telling the jury they must not make enquiries outside the trial. A juror has downloaded a document. #badenclay
    Judge says the document was a guide to jury deliberations. He says they must not do this, it was wrong. #badenclay
    Judge says any advice needs to come from this court. This court has given them a jury guide. #badenclay

    Francene Norton ‏@francenenorton 1m
    Justice Byrne says a juror has downloaded a document from an overseas commentator from the internet.

    Eammon Atkinson ‏@EAtkinson7 56s
    Document was written by an American legal commentator about how US juries should deliberate. #BadenClay

    Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 53s
    Justice Byrne has called the jury back again. He forgot to tell them something. #badenclay

    Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 36s
    Judge is reading the instructions again about not seeking information outside the courtroom. #badenclay

    Eammon Atkinson ‏@EAtkinson7 49s
    Judge to jury: you must not enquire about anything outside of the trial. #BadenClay

    Katrina Blowers ‏@katrinablowers 37s
    Justice Byrne now reminding #badenclay jury not to make any inquiries about accused online or through social media. They are excused.

    Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 41s
    And they've been excused again. Back to deliberations. #badenclay

    Eammon Atkinson ‏@EAtkinson7 45s
    #BadenClay judge tells jury not to do their own research after jury member takes document to deliberation room @7NewsBrisbane

    1:16pm: The material downloaded from the internet related to commentary from the United States about the role of a jury.
    "You scarcely need to know what some overseas commentator speaking about a different system happens to the think," Justice Byrne said.
    1:13pm: The jury has been called back into the courtroom for another direction from Justice Byrne.
    "There's been an important matter drawn to my attention," he said.
    Justice Byrne said a juror had downloaded material from the internet about how a jury might deliberate its verdict.
    "I expected that my direction given twice orally and once in writing that you must not inquire outside the courtroom about anything that related to the trial was clear and emphatic," he said.
    "What was done was wrong."
    Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz3722hPYem


    Eammon Atkinson ‏@EAtkinson7 1m
    The waiting continues - #BadenClay jury back deliberating. Judge won't take a verdict before 2.15pm

    -----
    Emmy Kubainski ‏@emmykubainski 3m
    Jury warned not to use internet, social media, mobiles, text books...anything other than material from the court. @7NewsBrisbane #badenclay
    1:35pm: Justice Byrne discharged the jury once more but asked them to return minutes later for him to reiterate his instructions to them, at the request of the prosecution and defence counsels.
    "I draw your attention once more to what I said on this topic. You must not inquire outside the courtroom about anything that relates to the trial. So you must not use any aid such as a text book to conduct research and, except in this courtroom, you must not in any seek or receive information about questions that arise in the trial, or about the accused, or about witnesses or the deceased," he said.
    "For example, conducting research using the internet, or by communicating by someone by phone, email, or on Twitter, through any blog or website, including the social networking websites such as Facebook, Linked In or You Tube.
    "Thank you for your attention."
    The jury has resumed its deliberations.
    Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz3727RUBe0

    -----
    1.22pm: The jury requested further information from Supreme Court Justice John Byrne.
    The jury re-entered the court room at 12.38pm.
    Justice Byrne told the jury they would not receive a copy of his summing up at the request of the prosecution and defence counsels.
    It retired again to deliberate shortly after.
    The jury returned to the court at 1.10pm, after they had been deliberating for two hours.
    Justice Byrne said he had three times warned the jury not to enquire of anything to do with the trial outside the court room.
    He said a juror had apparently downloaded from the internet material on how a jury might approach its “great responsibility of deliberating on a verdict”.
    He thanked the jury for bringing the matter to his attention.
    “Now everyone appreciates a juror’s job is rarely easy and we all understand a juror are often anxious about performing their role,” he said.
    “They want to do it well and responsibly and will look for assistance. But I repeat, that assistance must come from the court and only from the court, and not some external source.”
    Justice Byrne told the jury they had a guide to deliberating in a form that was approved by the court available to them in the jury room.
    “You scarcely need to know what some overseas commentator speaking about a very different system of jury trials, happens to think. So the document will be retained by my associate and not returned to the jury room.”
    He reminded the jury not to enquire outside of the court room about anything that related to the trial.
    “You must not use any aide, such as a textbook to conduct research, and except in this court room, you must not in any way seek or receive information about questions that arise in the trial, or about the accused, or about any witnesses or the deceased, for example by conducting research using the internet, or by communicating with someone by phone, email or Twitter, through any blog or website, including social networking websites, such as Facebook, LinkedIn and You Tube,” he said.
    The jury has returned to its deliberations.
    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1226983491477

    -----
    • Justice warns juror’s downloading is 'wrong'
    "You scarcely need to know what some overseas commentator speaking about a very different system of jury trials happens to think," he said.
    Justice Byrne said the jury could use the guide to jury deliberations booklet which the court had approved to help them.
    http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au...314591/?ref=hs

    -----
    Rae Wilson ‏@RaeWilson78 2m
    Here is the warning justice gave jurors after one brought in document on American juries #badenclay #court #qld. http://ow.ly/yZ5YF

    -----
    • THE jury deliberating in the Gerard Baden-Clay has been warned for a fourth time about seeking guidance outside the courtroom after a juror brought in a document from an American jury commentator.
    Justice John Byrne gave the seven men and five woman, who began deliberating at 11.10am, a stern warning about not seeking help from external sources and told them the behaviour was "wrong".
    "You scarcely need to know what some overseas commentator speaking about a very different system of jury trials happens to think," he said.
    Justice Byrne said the jury could use the guide to jury deliberations booklet which the court had approved to help them.
    http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au...314591/?ref=hs

    -----
    Michael Kersnovske ‏@MKersnovske 32s
    Additional chairs being brought into the court ahead of #badenclay verdict. Jury still deliberating @tennewsqld

    Approx. 4:45pm (WS AU Time)
    • Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou • 35s
    The jury is being sent home. They'll reconvene at 9am tomorrow to continue their deliberations. #badenclay

    • David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 1m
    The jury will be sent home for the day, deliberations to continue tomorrow from 9am

    Francene Norton ‏@francenenorton 1m
    #badenclay jury sent home for the day. Jurors will resume deliberations at 9am tomorrow

    Eammon Atkinson ‏@EAtkinson7 21m
    #BadenClay jury asks judge to explain the difference between 'murder' and 'manslaughter' @7NewsBrisbane

    No verdict yet in the #BadenClay trial. The jury will continue deliberating tomorrow at 9.30am. @7NewsBrisbane

    Ebony Cavallaro ‏@ebonycavallaro 39m
    Jury has been sent home for the day in #badenclay trial - no verdict today @9NewsBrisbane

    Michael Kersnovske ‏@MKersnovske 1m
    Ahead in @tennewsqld @GreenhalghSarah is live from the Supreme Court with all the details on the #badenclay trial pic.twitter.com/pUp1xfEihx

    Nine News Australia ‏@9NewsAUS 38m
    MT @TessaScott9: Jury has been told to go home for the day. Back for deliberations tomorrow morning at 9.30am #badenclay
     
  8. Liadan

    Liadan Well-Known Member

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    So these documents that were handed to OW - interesting! If there was a court proceeding to happen then would that be registered somewhere? Can we look into that and find out?

    Otherwise I just tend to believe it would be the bill as someone most succinctly pointed out. Obviously legal aid covers most stuff for GBC but I can't see the BC's not wanting to add in a few bells and whistles from their barrister that they would have paid for to assist dear Gerard come out unscathed.
     
  9. Angel76

    Angel76 New Member

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    Hello.. I have followed this case since Allison went missing & quietly followed the threads on WS from the very beginning. I only recently joined this site as I wanted to say a big thankyou to all the people that have posted over the last 2 years. Like alot of you, I have felt a rollercoaster of emotions during this time & learnt a bit more about life & how very precious it can be..

    I hope & pray that justice is done for Allison, her Parents & her Girls.. :angel:
     
  10. kiwijayne

    kiwijayne Well-Known Member

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    Great post

    :welcome::welcome4:
     
  11. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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  12. cwalk74

    cwalk74 New Member

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    Someone posted a link to a song on here dedicated to Allison a few nights ago ~ after the defence put forward their closing argument and my mood was one of frustration and anger for a woman I never met. The song, Mazzy Star's "Into Dust" http://vimeo.com/30078922 is hauntingly sad and gave me goosebumps. I felt so so sad for a mum, daughter, sister, niece who was treated so poorly in life by her husband and even worse in death. Until hearing this song and imagining her last thoughts and her body just dumped in that dark, cold, damp, horrid place my focus had been praying a guilty verdict would keep those 3 young girls away from GBC & in the safe arms of the Dickies. Now, I'm praying for the woman left out in the dark and for a future for her girls away from these people.
    Sorry for the ramble but I'm just so sad. And whoever posted the link to what will always be to me, Allison's song, the other night, thanks.
     
  13. SwiftSleuth

    SwiftSleuth New Member

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    From what I can see the quote from Eammon Atkinson (Channel 7) has since been removed.

    Eammon Atkinson ‏@EAtkinson7 21m
    #BadenClay jury asks judge to explain the difference between 'murder' and 'manslaughter' @7NewsBrisbane
     
  14. Freya1977

    Freya1977 Well-Known Member

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    That's murder the way I see it. If he's smothering her then that's intent. Intent = murder. The intent does not have to be to kill her. Intent to cause grievous bodily harm which in turn causes a death is murder.

    IMHO only.
     
  15. digitup

    digitup New Member

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    If a guilty verdict is handed down,then a case for an accessory after the fact be sought?
     
  16. MRSA

    MRSA Member

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    No. The restraint might be intended but the consequence of that restraint (smothering leading to death) might not be intended. If intent is not established beyond reasonable doubt, the accused is not guilty of murder.

    This is why so much hinges on the circumstantial evidence that GBC wanted his wife dead.
     
  17. Fluffykins

    Fluffykins Well-Known Member

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    Super Todd!!! :hilarious:
     
  18. SwiftSleuth

    SwiftSleuth New Member

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    Not quite sure this is true. The judge indicated that intent to cause GBH which resulted in death = murder
     
  19. Freya1977

    Freya1977 Well-Known Member

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    So if he covers her mouth and nose "restraining" her till she dies, that's not intent? When she's clawing at him and clearly suffocating, how is that not intent? He'd stop the restraint. He has no right to restrain her anyway. What exactly constitutes GBH?
     
  20. Her Honour

    Her Honour New Member

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    Watchin' Buffy reruns...love Buffy. We all SO need to meet!

    Royster, you crack me up! #awkward. You bet! Like the kid who's mucking up up the back, gets flamed and suddenly no-one wants to associate with.
     
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