The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 10th July - Trial Day 18

[FigTree]

Bumping this up for anyone who may have missed it....

Thanks Marly!
Off to do some Poll Dancing

 

[Freya1977]

I'm trying to find the full link.

Mr Byrne said the accused spent time with Ms McHugh during the week, while he spent time with his family on the weekends.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226979525605

I think it was them "staying back late to work", but I don't think he was actually staying at her place overnight 4 nights a week, or at all. There's no way he would have gotten away with that... Imagine it!

 

[wewillgetyou]

Does anyone know who actually stated that the person who approached the jury member was wearing purple ?
If it was the judge he wasn't very subtle was he ? Lol

 

[Freya1977]

Got it!

"The weeks I did not have my children I would see Gerard a lot more frequently.

"Maybe four times per week, but very rarely on weekends.

"I went to his house on two occasions."

http://www.qt.com.au/news/murder-trial-gerard-baden-clay-second-week/2290111/

Yes, but I don't think it means he stayed over there...

 

[Snails]

Does anyone know who actually stated that the person who approached the jury member was wearing purple ?
If it was the judge he wasn't very subtle was he ? Lol

I was in the Banco overflow room and I'm pretty sure I heard the judge say that the person who approached the jury member was wearing purple. I didn't put two and two together until later.

 

[Consider]

From experience four times of same - 'he' of course according to him didn't pre-meditate. Our children heard no conversation, there was no noise (I didn't see it coming, I was knocked out and if it had not been for something - I can't tell you - my gorgeous 5 year old? 9 year old? him feeling my last breaths under his hands around my nose and mouth and the other hand around my throat with absolute purpose?)

Who knows what happened to poor GBC that night?

I feel it happened for the first time and to this day he can't understand except to excuse the stress HE was under.

jmo

It happens.
Good people do bad. Not often. But occasionally with diabolical 'I am not that person' consequences.

Everyone including the f hole who did it is a victim.

Consequences (natural, legal or generational) are not going to save or redeem the victims.

j m o

 

[kiwijayne]

From experience four times of same - 'he' of course according to him didn't pre-meditate. Our children heard no conversation, there was no noise (I didn't see it coming, I was knocked out and if it had not been for something - I can't tell you - my gorgeous 5 year old? 9 year old? him feeling my last breaths under his hands around my nose and mouth and the other hand around my throat with absolute purpose?)

Who knows what happened to poor GBC that night?

I feel it happened for the first time and to this day he can't understand except to excuse the stress HE was under.

jmo

It happens.
Good people do bad. Not often. But occasionally with diabolical 'I am not that person' consequences.

Everyone including the f hole who did it is a victim.

Consequences (natural, legal or generational) are not going to save or redeem the victims.

j m o

? Yeah poor GBC must be so hard for him.

Yes first time :facepalm:

Sorry I would hardly call GBC a good person

GBC a victim? Hardly

The only victims here are Allison, her daughters and her family JMHO

 

[Freya1977]

You know I was thinking and in proposing what could have happened to Allison the defence would have come up with the best alternative scenario to murder they could think of to suggest to the jury. That the best they could come up with was so ridiculous makes me even moreso think he did it and there's no reasonable alternative to what happened.

Me too!

 

[Timmy]

Me too!

Me three!

 

[Susan12]

How can they be considering manslaughter? That doesn't make sense. It just doesn't. What scenario could fit an unintentional accident with scratches to his face? Hopefully they get it when he explains it again.

I hope it's just because of being unsure of the level of premeditation required for murder... Like the movies make it seem intent for murder is planned out quite in advance whereas in Australia it sounds to be if you knew you were causing harm even as you were causing it and not planned it before it's still murder. If its true the jury is asking the question, do we think that means he'll be guilty of something or just trying to understand the three options?

 

[they'll get you]

I was just wondering, I have never seen it written that GBC grabbed Flegg by the shirt or got physical, when he asked him to step outside that CC meeting - Flegg didn't say it in court, did I miss it in his statement?

It is definitely out there somewhere. I will look for if.

Clay was upset with Flegg gossiping about his business failing and Flegg said it it didn't come from me. I've been looking everywhere- was it Sue Heath or did Fuller mention it in his roundup. I know it's was said. That why I grabbed it with both hands - that is a violent act!!

 

[Freya1977]

Does anyone know who actually stated that the person who approached the jury member was wearing purple ?
If it was the judge he wasn't very subtle was he ? Lol

It was the judge.

 

[Susan12]

From what I can see the quote from Eammon Atkinson (Channel 7) has since been removed.

Eammon Atkinson ‏@EAtkinson7 21m
#BadenClay jury asks judge to explain the difference between 'murder' and 'manslaughter' @7NewsBrisbane

Oh so did it not happen or are they not meant to report it?

 

[Freya1977]

I was in the Banco overflow room and I'm pretty sure I heard the judge say that the person who approached the jury member was wearing purple. I didn't put two and two together until later.

I was in the actual court when he said it, and I thought of EBC because of her puffy jacket, and she had a purple scarf as well. Then shortly after, Olivia must have gotten chilly and she put on her jacket, it was bright purple, and I thought "oh my...."

 

[Freya1977]

I hope it's just because of being unsure of the level of premeditation required for murder... Like the movies make it seem intent for murder is planned out quite in advance whereas in Australia it sounds to be if you knew you were causing harm even as you were causing it and not planned it before it's still murder. If its true the jury is asking the question, do we think that means he'll be guilty of something or just trying to instant the three options?

Yes hopefully the judge makes it very clear. Murder doesn't need to be planned in advance

 

[Consider]

Kiwijayne

I agree, GBC does not have my sympathy.

Narcissists seriously do not expect to mess up their image.

GBC did (in ways he can't compute - he's all about him).

GBC lives, uses and extinguishes/kills (those that fade or ruin the image he aims to project)

I want him incarcerated forever.

I can't see how him having visitation with their three girls can improve their 3 long lives.

jmo

 

[Susan12]

Re unlawful restraint: just because it might be unlawful doesn't vitiate the person's lack of intent to kill or do GBH.

All the evidence points to Allison having scratched GBC's face while he did violence do her (with the intent to kill her). However you asked: "What scenario could fit an unintentional accident with scratches to his face?" One scenario might be that she scratched his face during a fight, he grabbed her in a big bearhug to restrain her, and she was inadvertently smothered. Or her jumper went up over her face and she was inadvertently smothered. You assume she scratched him while he was smothering her, but I am saying there are scenarios where this is not necessarily the case.

The definition of GBH is paraphrased from the Criminal Code. Here is a direct quote (s 1):

(a) the loss of a distinct part or an organ of the body; or
(b) serious disfigurement; or
(c) any bodily injury of such a nature that, if left untreated, would endanger or be likely to endanger life, or cause or be likely to cause permanent injury to health;

whether or not treatment is or could have been available.

No, but Gerard could have assaulted Allison and she could have responded with the scratches to the face. I don't think I was suggesting that Allison "attacked" Gerard.

?

Freya1977 asked for a hypothetical.

I think being suffocated where you're struggling for breath and the attacker knows they're robbing you of breath but keeps going would count as that level of harm. It'd be attempted murder if she'd lived, since she died it's murder. Those scratches on his face and body are not small or light, they are from someone seriously desperate. He would know from feeling that from her how panicked, fearful and hurt she was feeling and she was alive then - and he persisted. I feel for Allison, her girls and her family, she did not deserve this.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I've been getting those noises since I was in my 20's.
I used to think they came from outside, ie someone doing work or the bang of a car door. It was only when I read a news item a few months ago that I discovered I might have that exploding head syndrome. What a weird name LOL.:crazy:
Funny that I've never been frightened by the noises and mine don't happen that often.
I actually have a favourite of those sounds, the clash of a cymbal

TF .. How strange ,,, I do not have trouble getting to sleep normally .. but the age it starts is exactly my age ... weird.

 

[kiwijayne]

I was in the actual court when he said it, and I thought of EBC because of her puffy jacket, and she had a purple scarf as well. Then shortly after, Olivia must have gotten chilly and she put on her jacket, it was bright purple, and I thought "oh my...."

My guess it would have been an extended family member of theirs as EBC and OW stand out.

 

[they'll get you]

Maybe they have Ladybird, but they've been instructed not to take notice of this. They'd have to have been living under a rock not to have seen it.

Yes that 'little bit hurt' crap has been burnt into my retinas.
OW has those dark lifeless eyes like her brother. Eyes of Clay.