The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 2nd July - Trial Day 14, Week 3

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silverau

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So only three witnesses for the defence, and I feel they were scraping the bottom of the barrel with at least 2 of them!

Well the other witness was allegedly scraping his own face.
 

toe

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1:08pm: "She suffered from major depression which is a major risk factor for suicide," Dr Schramm added.


Really??? I don't ever recall any evidence from the Professionals Allison was seeing classing her depression as major depression.
 

UnfoldingTruth

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Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 26m

Gerard says yes, there were "a number" of people he went to for sex "and we've talked about some of them". #badenclay

Wait, what? Some being Toni, Jacqui, and Michelle, so who else was there? If those 3 were all there were, wouldn't he have said "we've talked about all of them"..????

Never... Gerard would never ever pay for sex.. it would be an offense. His whole scenario is getting everything for free.. Gerard opening his wallet ? no way..

Charmer isn't he:puke:
The comments of more than 3.. or 'others' as GBC put it, reminds me of something I was told way back in the early days of the investigation. It is classed as rumour- though came from someone within the investigation originally, so I won't go into details. But it is a subject that was very briefly touched on at some point in the earlier threads of here- as I believe there were some rumours circulating about it. Would fit with multiple 'others' (key swapping, that sort of thing).. Don't know if its true, but maybe it fits.

Edited to add.. hope this is allowable or else I guess I'll be <modsnipped> too.
 

Amee

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12.05pm: The 73rd witness in the trial is Ashton Ward who is the manager of a company called &#8220;Khemistry&#8221;.

He was called to give evidence by barrister Michael Byrne QC, for Gerard Baden-Clay.

He said he did time-lapse recordings of the tidal movements at the Kholo Creek Bridge between June 12, 2014 and June 22, 2014.

Mr Ward said the film was still images that were converted into a time-lapse video.

He said the camera was set to take a photo image every 2 minutes during daylight hours.

He said that was switched to once every three minutes on June 18, 2014.

The time-lapse videos were played to the jury, one a closer view than the other.

In cross-examination by Crown prosecutor Todd Fuller QC, Mr Ward agreed the photos were initially taken every two minutes, so that one second equalled 50 minutes.

He said when it was changed to take one photo every three minutes, it became one second to every 75 minutes.

Mr Ward agreed he did not know what the area looked like in 2012.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226974352079
 

DrWatson

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1:08pm: "She suffered from major depression which is a major risk factor for suicide," Dr Schramm added.


Really??? I don't ever recall any evidence from the Professionals Allison was seeing classing her depression as major depression.

She had - not "suffered from" - well-controlled depression, Dr Schramm.
 

Amee

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11.30am: Gerard Baden-Clay told Crown prosecutor Todd Fuller QC he went to see doctors on the advice of his lawyers.

He agreed police took photos of him on April 21, 2012.

Baden-Clay said he could not remember telling police about the injuries on his torso.

He agreed people were concerned about the marks on his cheek.

&#8220;When you say concerned, yeah, they kept saying that they had a concern so that concerned me so I told them what it was,&#8221; he said.

He said the injuries on his torso were &#8220;self-inflicted&#8221; and &#8220;just didn&#8217;t seem relevant&#8221;.

Baden-Clay agreed he went to another doctor on the afternoon of April 21, 2012.

He said he gave one of the doctors his business card and offered to give her assistance moving to the area.

Mr Fuller asked the accused about the deed of variation he signed in order to obtain the rent roll in late 2011.

Baden-Clay agreed he would suffer a significant financial loss and return to owning just a quarter share in the rent roll business, if he defaulted on the variation.

Mr Fuller suggested the loss the accused would incur for defaulting on the rent roll variation was $46,800.

He asked Baden-Clay what loss he would incur if his wife left him.

Baden-Clay said his wife was not paid a salary.

He agreed they had an investment property together, shares and an investment property.

Mr Fuller said couple had a net assets worth of $74,663.

&#8220;You are asking an awful lot of hypothetical questions that I &#8230; I honestly can&#8217;t answer that,&#8221; he said.

Baden-Clay agreed there would have been financial consequences for him if he separated from his wife.

&#8220;If Allison and I had determined we were doing to separate, divorce or something like that, how that played out, I honestly don&#8217;t know,&#8221; he said.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226974352079
 

Fuskier

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hard to believe that Alison would kill herself.. she had it made, if Gerard is to be believed.. he did the ironing, put the kids to bed, sang to them, did the cooking, cleaned out the cupboards, organised her insurance policies, started up a business , prominent in the community, a scout, an advisor, a counsellor, a sex expert, a psychologist, an accountant, irresistible , wealthy friends, helpful mum and Dad and sister, bon vivant and traveller, excellent driver, mechanic, computer expert, placatory in the extreme, good looking, never smells, a listener, ....

:floorlaugh: Thanks Trooper. Need a bit of humour IMO.
 

Mrs G Norris

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Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 26m

Gerard says yes, there were "a number" of people he went to for sex "and we've talked about some of them". #badenclay

Wait, what? Some being Toni, Jacqui, and Michelle, so who else was there? If those 3 were all there were, wouldn't he have said "we've talked about all of them"..????

Reminds me of that old saying 'For every rat you see, there's 10 you don't.' Clearly Gerard cheated with a number of women throughout his marriage and had no qualms about it.
 

Amee

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I can&#8217;t now remember exactly why I told her that but it seemed to placate her at that time.&#8221;

Baden-Clay agreed he faced pressures on April 19, 2012 but they were &#8220;not significant&#8221;.

&#8220;You put to me yesterday that Allison required certain things of me, including that I not go out at night, that I hand my phone to her, that I put that find friends application on my phone and I should clarify &#8230; I felt satisfied I had answered truthfully and factually answered all the questions you asked &#8230; it was actually my suggestion to load that application on our phones,&#8221; he said.

The accused said both he and his wife knew how to turn it off.

&#8220;And on the one day I needed it, it failed me, that&#8217;s correct,&#8221; he said.

Mr Fuller said the app didn&#8217;t stop the accused from meeting Toni McHugh or contacting her regularly.

&#8220;That is correct. Predominantly instigated by Toni, but yes that&#8217;s correct,&#8221; he said.

Mr Fuller suggested Baden-Clay wanted to be with Ms McHugh.

&#8220;Allison and I had recommenced our physical relationship that year and as I mentioned yesterday Allison and I had gone for around 9 years &#8230; yes, there were a number of women I went to for sex around that period &#8230; but Allison and I were rebuilding,&#8221; he said.

Baden-Clay agreed he was betraying his wife&#8217;s trust and continuing to do so on April 19, 2012.

&#8220;I suggest to you Toni McHugh offered you a different life and you wanted to take that opportunity?,&#8221; Mr Fuller asked.

Baden-Clay: &#8220;No, that&#8217;s not correct.&#8221;

The accused said he was &#8220;very ashamed&#8221; by his infidelity and wanted to put it behind him to move forward with his wife.

&#8220;I did not feel that,&#8221; he said, of Ms McHugh and his wife meeting at the real estate conference on April 20, 2012.

Baden-Clay said he was &#8220;placating&#8221; Ms McHugh when he told her he loved her.

Mr Fuller asked the accused if he would be exposed if his wife met Ms McHugh at the conference.

He argued she would find out about his affairs, the emails and the fact they had met for sex again since her discovery of the affair in September, 2011.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226974352079
 

catswhiskers

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David Murray &#8207;@TheMurrayD 54s

Allison seemed to put her hand up when she needed to help - Dr Schramm #badenclay

Caroline Overington &#8207;@overingtonc 44s

He agrees that depression can worsen in pregnancy #badenclay

I think the depression worsens after the pregnancy. Allison really wanted to have another child after their second - it was GBC who was the reluctant party.
 

Amee

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Mr Fuller: &#8220;You killed your wife, Mr Baden-Clay?&#8221;

Baden-Clay: &#8220;No, I did not.&#8221;

Mr Fuller: &#8220;You killed her either in or at your house at Brookfield that night or in the early hours of the morning?&#8221;

Baden-Clay: &#8220;No.&#8221;

Mr Fuller: &#8220;You attacked her and the only way she could respond was to lash out and claw at your face and leave marks upon it?&#8221;

Baden-Clay: &#8220;That is not true.&#8221;

Mr Fuller: &#8220;Probably as you smothered her and took her life from her?&#8221;

Baden-Clay: &#8220;That is not true.&#8221;

Mr Fuller suggested his wife grabbed at his clothing, causing marks under his arm.

Mr Fuller: &#8220;You overpowered her pretty quickly, didn&#8217;t you?&#8221;

Baden-Clay: &#8220;I never overpowered her at all &#8230; I never did anything to physically harm my wife in any way, ever, so your supposition and to take it further to suggest I did other things is absurd and I object to it. So I can&#8217;t answer your question.&#8221;

He said he did not know if his wife&#8217;s head came into contact with leaves in their backyard.

&#8220;I did not have anything to do with anything that you are suggesting,&#8221; he said.

Mr Fuller asked if he put his wife into the back of their Holden Captiva.

&#8220;I had nothing to do with anything that you are asking me,&#8221; Baden-Clay said.

Baden-Clay said he did not dump his wife&#8217;s body off Kholo Creek Bridge.

&#8220;The suggestion that I would leave my children for any time in the middle of the night is absurd, let alone to do the dastardly things that you are suggesting,&#8221; he said.

He said he did not put his phone on charge at 1.48am.

Baden-Clay said he did not shave over the scratch marks on his face.

&#8220;I did not,&#8221; he said.

Baden-Clay agreed he let police to search his home.

&#8220;I had nothing to hide,&#8221; he said.

&#8220;I was a concerned husband and I&#8217;m a very concerned father, I remain so. It is not a facade.&#8221;

The accused agreed he took legal advice and did not give a formal statement to police.

&#8220;My lawyer insisted upon it and so I followed that advice,&#8221; he said.

He said he never told his wife on the night she disappeared that she would run into Ms McHugh the next day.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226974352079
 

Amee

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In re-examination by barrister Michael Byrne QC, Baden-Clay reiterated he was never violent towards his wife on April 19, 2012.

&#8220;I&#8217;ve never thrown a punch in my life in anger,&#8221; he said.

Baden-Clay said he and his wife had disagreed during their marriage but never by being disrespectful to one another.

He said he did not hear any noises that night.

Baden-Clay said he did not deceive his wife about anything other than his infidelity over the four years before her death.

He said he did not deceive his family and friends about anything else apart from his infidelity.

&#8220;Deceive is a strong word but I protected Allison in relation to the extent of her depression, which we didn&#8217;t really know much about in the early years and Allison was very, very conscious that she really didn&#8217;t want anybody to know that she suffered from any mental illness so, certainly I protected Allison and didn&#8217;t tell any friends and family about her mental illness,&#8221; he said.

Baden-Clay agreed he deceived Ms McHugh by telling her there was a possibility they had a future together.

He said he was relieved when his wife discovered his affair with Ms McHugh but he did not tell her about other women he met for sex.

&#8220;I had no intention of telling Allison about the other women.

&#8220;I didn&#8217;t want to jeopardise any chance we had of making a future together, further, it was purely about the physical aspect that I went to those other women &#8230; over an extended period of time, admittedly,&#8221; he said.

The accused said there were occasions when he questioned whether it was beneficial for his wife to know intimate details of his affair with Ms McHugh.

He said counsellors told them it would be helpful for his wife to have her questions answered, but in his experience, it did not seem to be helpful to her.

Baden-Clay said counsellor Carmel Ritchie put structure into those conversations and he felt more confident about having those discussions with his wife.

He said Ms McHugh did not stay at his house, but rather visited.

&#8220;We&#8217;d had some physical intimacy at the house, I had told Allison about that, on one occasion she had a spare room at that point and there was a spare bed and we no longer had that &#8230; and a spare mattress,&#8221; he said.

The accused said he was concerned Ms McHugh was not coping very well and he wanted her to have the strength to get on with her life and find someone else.

&#8220;In retrospect, looking at some of the things I said and did, it was pretty naïve and pretty stupid, but that was my intention,&#8221; he said.

Baden-Clay agreed he told Ms McHugh he did not want to be intimate with her until he was out of the marriage with his wife.

&#8220;I felt stronger and more confident I would be able to maintain the distance if we weren&#8217;t seeing each other,&#8221; he said.

He said he hoped they would one day be friends.

&#8220;I wanted to make sure we just had no physical relationship with each other at all,&#8221; he said.

Baden-Clay agreed it was not a concern for him the two women in his life &#8211; mistress and wife - would meet at a real estate conference on April 20, 2012.

He said it was not in his wife&#8217;s nature to be confrontational or to &#8220;cause a scene&#8221;.

Baden-Clay said he thought his wife would have anticipated Ms McHugh would have been there, anyway, adding that she had colleague Kate Rankin with her.

He agreed Ms McHugh had a volatile personality but in a public environment, was &#8220;always able to control herself&#8221;.

&#8220;I really had no concern at all,&#8221; he said.

The jury was shown a page from his wife&#8217;s journal.

In it was written: &#8220;I don&#8217;t want to be alone. I am afraid of being alone and lonely maybe because I think I can&#8217;t handle it. I am afraid of failing &#8211; failing in my marriage and what people would think.&#8221;

Baden-Clay said he did not know why his wife had written such a thing but believed it to be her handwriting.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226974352079
 

catswhiskers

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David Murray &#8207;@TheMurrayD 34s

Allison's history showed a reasonable response to Zoloft, though sometimes took months #badenclay

So Allison didn't just pop a zoloft whenever she felt she needed too ... it's a long term course of medication as most of us suggested.
 

Susan12

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The talk about the depression, trying to lead to suicide/own doing is making me really cross.

How would a woman going for a walk around the block at Brookfield end up many km away at Kholo Creek with plants in her hair from her own garden and leaving behind blood in her own car? At the same time her husband turns up with scratches noone can substantiate were done the way he claims.

*Mad*
 

Amee

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1:17pm: The jury has been excused to return on Monday when the prosecution and defence lawyers will make their closing address.

"I look forward to seeing you next at 10am on Monday," Justice John Byrne said to the jury.

Defence counsel Michael Byrne QC will be required to deliver his closing address to the jury first on Monday because Mr Baden-Clay elected to adduce evidence and step into the witness box.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...y-14-week-4-20140702-3b76w.html#ixzz36HI1AzKi
 

Cattail

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Those that don't leave note when they suicide usually suicide where they can be found pretty quickly, yes? They don't walk 14km to a bridge, on a moonless night, with little to no street lighting. They drive to the story bridge and jump off that, or hang themselves in their own home. der!!


Or take themselves off where they will never be found. And still not leave a note.
 
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