The Girlfriend's Statement

[IzzyBlanche]

Well maybe 28 years old is ancient to a 16 year old.

O/T but when I was in high school several of my teachers were about that age. I didn't think they were ancient, but I did think of them as being "much" older than the 10 years that actually separated us. At 16 that 10-year gulf seems much wider than it does as we age. And in fact it is, in terms of human development. But I'm rambling.

However, as I recall, I don't think I would have mistaken their voices for one of my male classmates's, unless it was one of those rare boys who had really deep voices at that age.

JMO.

 

[AJ Noiter]

I'm sorry.. can you explain how you got "her parents have no conscience" after all that?

Any parent that I've ever known would've wondered why their daughter was so distraught and tried to fix it. Convincing her to speak with the police was not Mr. Crump's job, it was her parent's job as it would have let her get the story off her chest and also allow investigators to use the information to try and convict the person who killed her "boyfriend". This does not seem to be the case. You were correct, adults and children do think differently but I would've expected an adult to say "hey, you need to do the right thing - it'll make you feel better in the end" IF (and that's a big IF) they were aware of it. This leads me to believe they weren't aware of it, which leads me to believe that she wasn't very distraught over it - just as her feeling of "guilt" is not credible to me.

 

[jjenny]

O/T but when I was in high school several of my teachers were about that age. I didn't think they were ancient, but I did think of them as being "much" older than the 10 years that actually separated us. At 16 that 10-year gulf seems much wider than it does as we age. And in fact it is, in terms of human development. But I'm rambling.

However, as I recall, I don't think I would have mistaken their voices for one of my male classmates's, unless it was one of those rare boys who had really deep voices at that age.

JMO.

Zimmerman doesn't have a deep voice. He has a kind of high pitched voice that we all heard on him calling 911.

 

[AJ Noiter]

They most certainly do! if they see a suspect fleeing from a scene.. even though what may be in reality a "light skinned latino" they will put in their report "a white male" if that's what they "think" he may be.
If they see a light skinned black man, they might put in their report that they appeared to see a latino.
They are trying to "identify" by the color of their skin.
Common practice....

You misunderstood what I said. Just because a police officer says "that person is Peruvian" doesn't make it to be truth. They can not "conclude" someone's race for them. Their interpretation of the race that the person falls under goes on the sheet of paper, that doesn't make it to be truth.

 

[HiHater]

You misunderstood what I said. Just because a police officer says "that person is Peruvian" doesn't make it to be truth. They can not "conclude" someone's race for them. Their interpretation of the race that the person falls under goes on the sheet of paper, that doesn't make it to be truth.

This whole discussion is because Trayvon interpreted GZ to be white.

Soooo....

 

[IzzyBlanche]

So what you're saying is that:
1) Her parents have no conscience or
2) She didn't even tell them

So... we're right back to where we started.

Maybe she didn't tell them. The info is flowing too quickly for me to keep up with and still keep my job, so maybe she didn't and if she didn't, there are an infinite number of reasons teenaged girls don't tell their parents things. I know this having been one once myself back in the Mesozoic Age.

Maybe she did tell them. If she and her family are AA, do you realize the unlikelihood that they would voluntarily involve themselves with LE?

Even if they aren't AA, do you realize the reluctance people in general have to involve themselves as witnesses in a potential crime if they aren't forced to?

 

[AJ Noiter]

Maybe she didn't tell them.
<snip for relevance>

Maybe she did tell them. If she and her family are AA, do you realize the unlikelihood that they would voluntarily involve themselves with LE?

Even if they aren't AA, do you realize the reluctance people in general have to involve themselves as witnesses in a potential crime if they aren't forced to?

I wouldn't doubt that she didn't tell them, just as I wouldn't doubt that they had no clue that she was "distraught" over it.

What does being African American have to do with doing the right thing? It's called integrity and the last time I looked up the word it didn't have segregated definitions.

If Ms. Genovese is who I think it is (Genovese was a HUGE name back when the mob ran everything) I don't doubt that people wouldn't talk about it. The mafia was a pretty scary thing at one point in time.

 

[Karmady]

FTR, at page 18 of the pdf, an officer who responded to the scene described George as Latino - just Latino. I think there may have been another reference in there, possibly to "hispanic" rather than Latino, somewhere, but this the one I was thinking of. It was Serino who said he was white. Regardless, clearly he isn't. And no amount of putting it in your report changes that. jmo

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I wouldn't doubt that she didn't tell them, just as I wouldn't doubt that they had no clue that she was "distraught" over it.

What does being African American have to do with doing the right thing? It's called integrity and the last time I looked up the word it didn't have segregated definitions.

If Ms. Genovese is who I think it is (Genovese was a HUGE name back when the mob ran everything) I don't doubt that people wouldn't talk about it. The mafia was a pretty scary thing at one point in time.

I meant that for many AAs, "doing the right thing" does not necessarily = voluntarily involving oneself with LE, particularly considering the historical relationships in our country between these two entities. Fire hoses directed on peaceful marchers, for example.

And no, KG had no mob connections apart from the unfortunate coincidence of her last name.

 

[elementary]

She also thinks that Trayvon was the one punched when the head set fell off, but she didn't witness it. So why did she make that conclusion? If he was punched, why doesn't he have any injuries to show that he was punched? Nothing except an injury to a finger below a knuckle. She had to be probed repeatedly on what she heard after the head set was off, which indicates to me she isn't all that sure.

Maybe she assumed he was punched. Maybe he was grabbed. She obviously knew something was happening.

As for probing, if you check witness reports, some of them too, were probed. People may report but LE may need more details. Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Karmady]

Maybe she assumed he was punched. Maybe he was grabbed. She obviously knew something was happening.

As for probing, if you check witness reports, some of them too, were probed. People may report but LE may need more details. Sounds reasonable to me.

She wasn't probed, imo, she was led.

 

[elementary]

I wouldn't doubt that she didn't tell them, just as I wouldn't doubt that they had no clue that she was "distraught" over it.

What does being African American have to do with doing the right thing? It's called integrity and the last time I looked up the word it didn't have segregated definitions.

If Ms. Genovese is who I think it is (Genovese was a HUGE name back when the mob ran everything) I don't doubt that people wouldn't talk about it. The mafia was a pretty scary thing at one point in time.

Well, clearly you haven't walked in their shoes. I wish life were so black and white.

 

[Alecto]

I'm still reading the doc dump but on page 16-17 the SPD is trying to unlock the phone. First they had been hampered by the phone not working (possibly from getting wet on 2/26) and then later they can't get past the swipe code without the PIN number for the account. They contact TM's father on March 5th asking for the PIN and TM's father tells the SPD that they he is going to talk to his lawyer before giving the investigators that information. I've seen no further mention of the phone after that date. It looks to me like SPD took the proper steps to find out if there had been a useful phone/ear witness and they were blocked by Crump.

 

[elementary]

Maybe she didn't tell them. The info is flowing too quickly for me to keep up with and still keep my job, so maybe she didn't and if she didn't, there are an infinite number of reasons teenaged girls don't tell their parents things. I know this having been one once myself back in the Mesozoic Age.

Maybe she did tell them. If she and her family are AA, do you realize the unlikelihood that they would voluntarily involve themselves with LE?

Even if they aren't AA, do you realize the reluctance people in general have to involve themselves as witnesses in a potential crime if they aren't forced to?

I don't know where the Kitty Genovese allusion went to but I remember it all too vividly- the troubling case of bystander (non) intervention. She was stabbed to death on an NYC street in full view of others who did not intervene.

 

[Karmady]

Well, clearly you haven't walked in their shoes. I wish life were so black and white.

Really? What terrible fate would have befallen her? Would she have been sprayed with a hose or worse? Worst case, she is ignored, but at least she tried. Imo, this girl didn't come forward because she had no reason to believe that Trayvon wasn't involved in just another shooting of the type she's accustomed to hearing or knowing about in Miami Gardens. jmo.

 

[elementary]

Really? What terrible fate would have befallen her? Would she have been sprayed with a hose or worse? Worst case, she is ignored, but at least she tried. Imo, this girl didn't come forward because she had no reason to believe that Trayvon wasn't involved in just another shooting of the type she's accustomed to hearing or knowing about in Miami Gardens. jmo.

She is a minor. <modsnip>

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Really? What terrible fate would have befallen her? Would she have been sprayed with a hose or worse? Worst case, she is ignored, but at least she tried. Imo, this girl didn't come forward because she had no reason to believe that Trayvon wasn't involved in just another shooting of the type she's accustomed to hearing or knowing about in Miami Gardens. jmo.

BBM She would have been pegged as a liar on the Internet (as we have already seen here on this victim friendly forum), pilloried for not having contacted LE (as we have already seen here on this victim friendly forum), possibly have her social media accounts hacked and altered to make her look bad (as Trayvon did) and who knows what else.

I wouldn't voluntarily subject my mature thick-skinned don't-put-up-with-much to that, much less allow my teenaged daughter--if I had one--to subject herself to it either.

 

[jaded cat]

I wouldn't doubt that she didn't tell them, just as I wouldn't doubt that they had no clue that she was "distraught" over it.

What does being African American have to do with doing the right thing? It's called integrity and the last time I looked up the word it didn't have segregated definitions.

If Ms. Genovese is who I think it is (Genovese was a HUGE name back when the mob ran everything) I don't doubt that people wouldn't talk about it. The mafia was a pretty scary thing at one point in time.

LMGTFY.com

From Wiki:

Catherine Susan "Kitty" Genovese (July 7, 1935[1] – March 13, 1964) was a New York City woman who was stabbed to death near her home in the Kew Gardens neighborhood of the borough of Queens in New York City, on March 13, 1964.[3]

The events of Genovese's death are subject to dispute. Some accounts suggest that her cries for help were heard and ignored by numerous residents at the apartment. Other accounts, as detailed below, suggest that residents did not hear her pleas or did provide assistance or both. The exact details of what happened are unknown.

 

[Karmady]

She is a minor. And you just validated my interpretation.

Your interpretation, as I read it, was they she had some well-founded distrust of the police. MY interpretation is that she had some well-founded knowledge of how things typically go down in her world. And I think she was right. jmo

 

[Karmady]

BBM She would have been pegged as a liar on the Internet (as we have already seen here on this victim friendly forum), pilloried for not having contacted LE (as we have already seen here on this victim friendly forum), possibly have her social media accounts hacked and altered to make her look bad (as Trayvon did) and who knows what else.

I wouldn't voluntarily subject my mature thick-skinned don't-put-up-with-much to that, much less allow my teenaged daughter--if I had one--to subject herself to it either.

Well what made her change her mind then?