The Phone Calls in the early morning of Dec.18, 2013 (both PayPhone & cells)

[geevee]

I've never thought that Heather drove herself to PTL but SM's phone being suddenly turned on at 3:03 really drives it home for me.I think that SM calling from the payphone was his attempt to lure her out but she didn't take the bait. Then we have about 45 minutes before Heather's phone is calling the payphone. After that 45 minutes, we have a lot of calls from Heather's phone to the payphone and Heather's car driving to LB and her apt....until 3:03 when Sidney's cell phone is turned on. Now that his phone is on, suddenly Heather's phone stops calling the payphone and starts calling his cell phone. Then it's off to PTL to dump Heather's car,take car of her phone and get a ride from the truck. I really think Sidney went to Heather's apt when the payphone call didn't work. I'm not saying that he went in, but I think he went there. I think something happened to Heather in the 45 minutes between talking to Bri and the call to the payphone. I think it was SM driving her car and controlling her phone.

I agree, I think there has to be a connection to his cell being turned on and her phone not calling the payphone any longer and calling his cell. I also think the latest Heather could have been in control of her phone was at Longbeard's but I could see something occurring earlier, as you propose.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

If SM's phone was off for days before HE's disappearance, but was turned back on just after 3:00 a.m. the morning HE went missing, then it seems to me TM was behind the crime.
SM must have known his phone could be traced so it makes no sense, after having not used the phone for so long, that he would he turn it back on immediately before or after committing a crime.

If both M's were involved in planning, it doesn't make sense to use his phone and leave that footprint.
I'm revisiting this case after a long time, so I'm probably missing info - learning about LB was a complete surprise.

 

[lstiff]

If SM's phone was off for days before HE's disappearance, but was turned back on just after 3:00 a.m. the morning HE went missing, then it seems to me TM was behind the crime.
SM must have known his phone could be traced so it makes no sense, after having not used the phone for so long, that he would he turn it back on immediately before or after committing a crime.

If both M's were involved in planning, it doesn't make sense to use his phone and leave that footprint.
I'm revisiting this case after a long time, so I'm probably missing info - learning about LB was a complete surprise.

Bumping this thread up with fresh eyes since the Ms were back in court yesterday. I think you're onto something with this but I'm not sure what. I mean, he was "smart" enough- or so he thought- to call her from a payphone so why go through the trouble of doing that but then use the cell phone later that night? IIRC, there were several texts between HE and SM phone during the months after the affair ended and Dec 18th so his phone must not have been off the entire time? Scratching my head on this one. Did he not need his phone on for work? Did he have a separate phone for his "business" or just the one?

IMO

 

[cujenn81]

In my opinion, he only used that phone because he didn't want Heather to know who was calling her before she picked up. There's a good chance she would have ignored the call if she saw it was his number, considering the constant harrassment she was dealing with from TM at that time. Like many others, myself included, she probably didn't answer blocked or unknown calls. He had a better chance of reaching her by calling her from a local number he wasn't connected to. There's no way for us to know what he told Heather regarding his phone, but clearly he didn't tell her he was using a pay phone because she tried calling that phone numerous times about an hour later. I have a feeling he was late meeting her at PTL and she started to freak out because she knew how crazy TM was and she knew she wasn't far from their house. When she wasn't able to reach him at the number he called her from, she probably tried calling his old number out of desperation. Heather calling his phone wasn't part of the plan, nor expected by SM, so he answered to make sure his plan was still going to work the way he wanted. But, by answering that phone, he left his footprint behind.


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[JerseyGirl]

FromPeterThomasFan http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...No-Discussion-Thread*&p=12666384#post12666384 THANK YOU!

December 2013- Heather's phone
Total Calls - 1000
Calls to SM - 6
Call from SM - 0
Total of 6 out of 1000

843-444-***2 (Payphone)
843-385-***5 (SM's Phone)
609-415-***8 (Bri's Phone)

1:13:10am to 2:31:24am (Heather's Apartment) 77 location records (37 GPS; 40 Wi-fi)
1:35:16am - Incoming Call from Payphone - 298.8 seconds (5 minutes)
1:44:39am - Outgoing Call to Bri - 132 seconds (2 minute and 12 seconds)
2:29:48am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 12 seconds
2:30:15am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 4.8 seconds

2:32:57am to 2:41:25am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 13.8 seconds (1 Wi-fi location record White River Drive location; 4 GPS records near intersection of River Oaks Dr. and Black Creek; 3 cell site records)

2:32:57am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 13.8 seconds

2:42:14am to 2:56:11am (Heather's phone is located to the rear of 5040 Carolina Forest Blvd. - Longbeard's Restaurant - North / North East corner of the parking lot where there are dumpsters. 14 minutes at location. Made 4 outgoing calls. 13 GPS records):

2:42:14am to 2:50:30am - Heather's phone was stationary

2:43:02am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 7.2 seconds
2:43:36am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 7.8 seconds
2:45:09am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 0.2 seconds
2:51:20am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 4.8 seconds

2:51:40am - movement at Longbeard's location
2:53:11am - movement at Longbeard's location

2:56:11am - stationary at Longbeard's location

2:57:04am to 3:01:57 (4 GPS; 1 cell site record)
No incoming or outgoing calls. Movement of Heather's phone from Longbeard's to a location on Augusta Plantation Drive and back to Longbeard's.

3:02:42am to 3:15:08am (Heather's phone is located back at Longbeard's. 15 GPS records)
3:04:36am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 1.8 seconds
3:05:55am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 9 seconds

3:16:22am to 3:19:23am (Heather's phone moved from Longbeard's to Heather's Apartment)
3:16:22am - Outgoing Call to SM's Phone - 7.8 seconds
3:17:35am - Outgoing Call to SM's Phone - 249 seconds (4 minutes and 9 seconds)

3:20:23am to 3:24:23am - 5 GPS records
Continuation of call from 03:17:35am until 3:21:44am (Heather's phone was located in the parking lot at her Apartment.)

3:25:29am to 3:35:12am (Heather's phone moved from White River Dr. (Apartment) to Peachtree Rd. to PTL. No call activity. 8 GPS, 3 cell site records.)

3:37:32am (Heather's phone was located at PTL. 1 GPS record.)
3:38:14am - Outgoing Call to SM's Phone - 1.8 seconds
3:39:00am - Outgoing Call to SM's Phone - 1.8 seconds
3:39:46am - Outgoing Call to SM's Phone - 1.8 seconds
3:41:05am - Outgoing Call to SM's Phone - 1.8 seconds

3:42:27am - No further incoming or outgoing calls from Heather's phone. No further location coordinates obtained.

 

[jillycat]

I don't think after all that had happened between Heather and TM that she would have risked calling that cell, particularly if she was already risking taking up with SM again and not getting caught. I've never bought the PTL theory and still don't, especially with LB in the equation.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

I didn't watch the trial but I've seen it repeated here that BW said Heather was "going to sleep on it."

If meeting with SM wasn't what she was contemplating, what was it?

[video]https://youtu.be/r4uB5Y3rFQM?t=2m37s[/video]

BW's testimony - "At the end of the conversation, I asked her if she was planning on seeing Sidney, and she told me that she was going to goto sleep and think on it."

 

[bestill]

I think Longbeard's is where Heather was harmed, all those calls and erratic back and forth movements seem like someone in panic mode. I don't think it was Heather, I think it was someone in control of Heather and her phone.

 

[Madeleine74]

At this point the state doesn't seem to be confident of being able to prove anything but lies were told and the M's violated the gag order. They appear to have given up on everything else. The kidnapping charge is still pending but no mention of an actual trial date and here it's a year later.

 

[pinkinablueworld]

FromPeterThomasFan http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...No-Discussion-Thread*&p=12666384#post12666384 THANK YOU!

December 2013- Heather's phone
Total Calls - 1000
Calls to SM - 6
Call from SM - 0
Total of 6 out of 1000

843-444-***2 (Payphone)
843-385-***5 (SM's Phone)
609-415-***8 (Bri's Phone)

1:13:10am to 2:31:24am (Heather's Apartment) 77 location records (37 GPS; 40 Wi-fi)
1:35:16am - Incoming Call from Payphone - 298.8 seconds (5 minutes)
1:44:39am - Outgoing Call to Bri - 132 seconds (2 minute and 12 seconds)
2:29:48am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 12 seconds
2:30:15am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 4.8 seconds

2:32:57am to 2:41:25am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 13.8 seconds (1 Wi-fi location record White River Drive location; 4 GPS records near intersection of River Oaks Dr. and Black Creek; 3 cell site records)

2:32:57am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 13.8 seconds

2:42:14am to 2:56:11am (Heather's phone is located to the rear of 5040 Carolina Forest Blvd. - Longbeard's Restaurant - North / North East corner of the parking lot where there are dumpsters. 14 minutes at location. Made 4 outgoing calls. 13 GPS records):

2:42:14am to 2:50:30am - Heather's phone was stationary

2:43:02am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 7.2 seconds
2:43:36am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 7.8 seconds
2:45:09am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 0.2 seconds
2:51:20am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 4.8 seconds

2:51:40am - movement at Longbeard's location
2:53:11am - movement at Longbeard's location

2:56:11am - stationary at Longbeard's location

2:57:04am to 3:01:57 (4 GPS; 1 cell site record)
No incoming or outgoing calls. Movement of Heather's phone from Longbeard's to a location on Augusta Plantation Drive and back to Longbeard's.

3:02:42am to 3:15:08am (Heather's phone is located back at Longbeard's. 15 GPS records)
3:04:36am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 1.8 seconds
3:05:55am - Outgoing Call to Payphone - 9 seconds

3:16:22am to 3:19:23am (Heather's phone moved from Longbeard's to Heather's Apartment)
3:16:22am - Outgoing Call to SM's Phone - 7.8 seconds
3:17:35am - Outgoing Call to SM's Phone - 249 seconds (4 minutes and 9 seconds)

3:20:23am to 3:24:23am - 5 GPS records
Continuation of call from 03:17:35am until 3:21:44am (Heather's phone was located in the parking lot at her Apartment.)

3:25:29am to 3:35:12am (Heather's phone moved from White River Dr. (Apartment) to Peachtree Rd. to PTL. No call activity. 8 GPS, 3 cell site records.)

3:37:32am (Heather's phone was located at PTL. 1 GPS record.)
3:38:14am - Outgoing Call to SM's Phone - 1.8 seconds
3:39:00am - Outgoing Call to SM's Phone - 1.8 seconds
3:39:46am - Outgoing Call to SM's Phone - 1.8 seconds
3:41:05am - Outgoing Call to SM's Phone - 1.8 seconds

3:42:27am - No further incoming or outgoing calls from Heather's phone. No further location coordinates obtained.[/

This detail is great.....Now for details on where S or M's phones where "pinging" that night. Do you think the state has that information? If they do, they can possibly prove proximity???

 

[lstiff]

I think Longbeard's is where Heather was harmed, all those calls and erratic back and forth movements seem like someone in panic mode. I don't think it was Heather, I think it was someone in control of Heather and her phone.

I agree with this after watching the trial and seeing the movement of the phone.

At this point the state doesn't seem to be confident of being able to prove anything but lies were told and the M's violated the gag order. They appear to have given up on everything else. The kidnapping charge is still pending but no mention of an actual trial date and here it's a year later.

I really don't mean offense but I wish they could get someone else to try this case for the prosecution if we are forced to have this judge. It's just my armchairdetective opinion but there has been many moments that NL was just railroaded and couldn't even get going b/c she was spinning her wheels from the verbal attacks of the judge. JMO and the way I perceived it.

I don't think after all that had happened between Heather and TM that she would have risked calling that cell, particularly if she was already risking taking up with SM again and not getting caught. I've never bought the PTL theory and still don't, especially with LB in the equation.

I agree!

 

[JerseyGirl]

This detail is great.....Now for details on where S or M's phones where "pinging" that night. Do you think the state has that information? If they do, they can possibly prove proximity???

I am trying to recall the details from the trial but I believe SM's phone was shut off for a while (days i think") and turned on sometime after 3 a.m.? Or maybe I just remember TM having SM's phone on her at all times. But I do recall his phone being off at some point that night. Whatever it was, it was quite obvious that whoever had SM's phone did not want to be tracked.

I just wish we could get the MRS. before a judge, I think we may find out a lot more and have answers to some questions.

 

[Surfside]

I am trying to recall the details from the trial but I believe SM's phone was shut off for a while (days i think") and turned on sometime after 3 a.m.?

RSBM

I've been doing some light digging, and here's what I've found so far:

Timeline thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?238748-Timelines-*No-Discussion-Thread*

JerseyGirl, your post (#15 on the timeline thread) says that SM's phone was turned on @ 3:00 am after having been turned off "just prior to December 11 upon return from Disneyland."

On post #17 in that same thread, nerdgirl posted, "after 12/11/2013, there is no geolocation data available" on SM's phone.

On the second thread from SM's kidnapping trial, there is quite a bit of discussion about the timing of the phone being turned off/on. You can use the "search thread" tool and get lost down a rabbit hole for a while. Here's a link to that thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?311195-Sidney-Moorer-on-trial-for-the-kidnapping-of-Heather-Elvis-***MISTRIAL-declared***-2&highlight=phone+turned

Hope this helps.

 

[LBDunes]

I don't think after all that had happened between Heather and TM that she would have risked calling that cell, particularly if she was already risking taking up with SM again and not getting caught. I've never bought the PTL theory and still don't, especially with LB in the equation.

I disagree. I think Heather did call SM's phone that night. I say this because I believed Warrelman's testimony, that he said he was leaving his wife. If that was the case that he left his wife, and Heather believed it was to be with her, then I doubt she would have had much fear.

 

[bestill]

How coincidental that SM's phone is suddenly turned on (after being turned off for days) at 3 am during the very time that Heather's phone activity ends and she disappears! All right after SM calls her from a pay phone. And TM wants us to think they aren't involved.

 

[tarheelslim]

I say this because I believed Warrelman's testimony, that he said he was leaving his wife. If that was the case that he left his wife, and Heather believed it was to be with her, then I doubt she would have had much fear.

I think this is possible, and I also think that it is possible that he claimed he was leaving his wife (and convinced her it was true) because it was a set-up.

 

[pinkinablueworld]

How coincidental that SM's phone is suddenly turned on (after being turned off for days) at 3 am during the very time that Heather's phone activity ends and she disappears! All right after SM calls her from a pay phone. And TM wants us to think they aren't involved.

Totally agree with this! I just sat on a Murder Jury Trial 3 weeks ago in Pensacola. There was no dna, no fingerprints, no witness....BUT the phone records/pings/text messages was a huge part of his conviction! I just don't understand why the M's are not in jail where they belong. How could Dumb & Dumber even have the brains to cover up their crime? SMH

 

[jillycat]

I disagree. I think Heather did call SM's phone that night. I say this because I believed Warrelman's testimony, that he said he was leaving his wife. If that was the case that he left his wife, and Heather believed it was to be with her, then I doubt she would have had much fear.

I would think there would need to be some details about how the leaving was going and when, and why SM decided to share this at that hour, before Heather jumped at the chance to end up at a dark boat landing that close to TM's throne. Where did she think Tammy was when she was calling his cell - that he didn't have access to earlier on the timeline? Even if he lied and said he called from another number to get her to answer...she continued to hit up that number?

And, Longbeard's.

I think the state needs to work on its theory.

 

[LBDunes]

I would think there would need to be some details about how the leaving was going and when, and why SM decided to share this at that hour, before Heather jumped at the chance to end up at a dark boat landing that close to TM's throne. Where did she think Tammy was when she was calling his cell - that he didn't have access to earlier on the timeline? Even if he lied and said he called from another number to get her to answer...she continued to hit up that number?

And, Longbeard's.

I think the state needs to work on its theory.

I don't think the state needs to work on it's theory. The details are what they have. The testimony of witnesses. The multiple lies told by the M's. The details of that phone call between SM & Heather were supplied by her room mate. So, that is the case and all the details available. I do not think if they 'came up' with a new theory that would bode well for justice. They have nothing on the Longbeards theory, that seems to be a bone of contention with some. My opinion is the state presented the case with the evidence they had. Surely if they change course for a new 'theory' that she was harmed at Longbeards, wouldn't even an incompetent lawyer point out that was not their theory in the prior trial?

 

[jillycat]

I don't think the state needs to work on it's theory. The details are what they have. The testimony of witnesses. The multiple lies told by the M's. The details of that phone call between SM & Heather were supplied by her room mate. So, that is the case and all the details available. I do not think if they 'came up' with a new theory that would bode well for justice. They have nothing on the Longbeards theory, that seems to be a bone of contention with some. My opinion is the state presented the case with the evidence they had. Surely if they change course for a new 'theory' that she was harmed at Longbeards, wouldn't even an incompetent lawyer point out that was not their theory in the prior trial?

I didn't say they need a new theory. They needed a theory that was plausible enough alongside the circumstantial evidence to lead to a prosecution for murder, not a nolle pros. They didn't even get into court. The truth is, if they had a murder case they wouldn't have asked for the NP.

The roommate said Heather told her that SM said he was leaving TM and wanted to see her and she decided to sleep on it. That's all we know. We have no idea what Heather was thinking and why, or why she was driving around, or who had control of phones and when.

Just because we can reason that they did it doesn't equal the state having a case that will stand in court. Obviously, even the state agreed on that and that's why they asked for the NP.

They've saddled themselves with a claim that she was both kidnapped and killed at PTL, and as you say, who's not going to notice that they changed their minds if they extend the crime beyond the landing? I don't know where this is going but it's been over a year and nobody is charged with murder.