The ransom note & Patsy Ramsey, letter by letter.

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by cynic, Dec 7, 2010.

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Did Patsy write the ransom note?

  1. Yes, Patsy wrote the note

    289 vote(s)
    91.2%
  2. No, Patsy did not write the note

    28 vote(s)
    8.8%
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  1. cynic

    cynic Well-Known Member

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    The last time I recall seeing that was at the "double B" (Jams) - do you have a better source? ST does not say that in his book.
     
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  2. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    It was in Schillers Perfect Murder, Perfect Town....can't seem to find the page number.
     
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  3. cynic

    cynic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Toltec.

    Jeff Shapiro’s account:
    Several days after I met with Thomas and Harmer, Pam Griffin told Frank Coffman that Patsy Ramsey wrote the words Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey on the same lined pad that the ransom note was written on. Pam said Patsy had told her that it was the beginning of an invitation she was writing: “Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey…invite you…” By then there was a rumor that the cops believed this writing was a false start on the ransom note. If what Pam said was true, it was important to the police.
    Moments after I heard what Coffman had learned, I left a message for Thomas on his voice mail. He called me back from his car, and I told him what Coffman had learned. I literally heard Thomas hit the brakes.
    “Jeff, that’s no f****n’ invitation.”
    The next day, the police asked Coffman and me to come down to headquarters so that Coffman could get Griffin on the phone and have her restate what she’d said. The police would tape-record the conversation. At first all we got was Pam’s answering machine.
    …
    Finally we reached Pam Griffin. As the police listened in on her conversation with Coffman, she told him it was Alex Hunter who, in a phone conversation with her, had suggested that the words Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey might be the beginning of an invitation.
    —Jeff Shapiro
    Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Lawrence Schiller, pages 436 - 437

    Steve Thomas’ account:
    Only a few days later, I discovered that the DA’s office had sat on potentially incriminating evidence.
    Frank Coffman, a local writer, had told me that Pam Griffin, a friend of Patsy Ramsey’s from kiddie pageant circles, claimed Patsy had told her about writing the so-called practice note for some innocent reason. I jumped at the possibility that a suspect had admitted to a third party that she had written it. It was a huge development, and I brought it up promptly.
    DA investigator Lou Smit coughed then acknowledged that he had received the same information some time earlier. “I was going to write a report on that,” he said. I was appalled that he had not placed it before us immediately. It seemed to me that if something pointed against the Ramseys, it might never reach the detectives. If that had surfaced, what else could there be? Why were they putting material that might help the Ramsey cause into the case file when legitimate leads such as this were stashed in a desk drawer somewhere? Burying leads from fellow investigators is one of the worst things a detective can do because it destroys trust.
    Nothing came from several attempts to get Pam Griffin to repeat her statement to police, and the DA’s office wasn’t impressed enough to force her immediate testimony.
    JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, page 225

    Frank Coffman’s account:
    Shapiro's rapport with Thomas won him certain privileges. On at least one occasion, Thomas allowed Shapiro to sit in on a sensitive investigation. In July 1997, Thomas asked me to come to the police station to phone Pam Griffin, a friend of Patsy Ramsey, so that he could surreptitiously tape the conversation. The detective wanted to document a remarkable assertion that Griffin had made to me: Patsy Ramsey admitted to her that she wrote the so-called "practice note."
    However, said Griffin, Patsy claimed that it was just the aborted start of an invitation to some event which Patsy couldn't recall. Thomas allowed Shapiro to monitor my conversation with Griffin. The session was a bust, though, when Griffin dismissed her previous comments as "speculation" about Patsy's actions.
    Boulder Weekly, Frank Coffman, February 29, 1999
    http://thehistoryvault.tripod.com/02291999feedingfrenzy-bw.htm
     
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  4. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    cynic,
    Wonder if that is true? Did Alex Hunter make that suggestion?



    .
     
  5. wonderllama

    wonderllama Registered Snoozer

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    Is that Ms Griffin speculating that she WROTE it or speculating as to the PURPOSE of her writing it?
     
  6. cynic

    cynic Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I caught that possibility as well.
    The whole thing is a bit too open ended for my liking.
    (I am leaning toward purpose, but Griffin comes across sounding a little “Stanton-esque.“)
     
  7. cynic

    cynic Well-Known Member

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    Given his reputation, it can't be ruled out.
     
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  8. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    Shout out to the Sith.

    I also wonder about the dissimilarities.

    If a comparable list, one of dissimilarities and inconsistencies could be compiled, even if it was just a cursory review, it would be interesting.

    Wonder if the same patterns are visible within iirc, voynich's? attempt at reproducing the rn.

    I wonder if a cut and paste version of the rn, created from an original source of PR's handwriting, if it could be traced and if the 'reproduction' would exhibit significant points of similarity to PR's sample exemplars.



    Re DL and CW:
    http://www.acandyrose.com/11261997davidliebmananalysis.htm
     
  9. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    rn vocab list:

    M r
    R a m s e y




    a a a a a a a a
    a b o u t
    a c c o u n t
    a d e q u a t e
    a d v i s e a d v i s e
    a l e r t
    a l s o
    a n a n
    a n d a n d a n d a n d a n d a n d a n d a n d a n d
    A n y a n y a n y
    a n y o n e
    a r r a n g e
    a r e a r e a r e a r e a r e
    a r o u n d
    a s a s
    A t
    a t t a c h e
    a u t h o r i t i e s a u t h o r i t i e s
    b a c k
    b a g
    b a n k b a n k
    b e b e b e b e b e b e b e
    b e h e a d e d
    b e i n g
    b e t w e e n
    b i l l s b i l l s b i l l s
    b r a i n
    b r i n g
    b r o w n
    b u r i a l
    b u s s i n e s s
    b u t b u t

    c a l l c a l l
    c a n
    c a r e f u l l y
    c a t
    c a t c h
    c h a n c e c h a n c e
    c o m m o n
    c o n s t a n t
    c o u n t r y
    c o u n t e r m e a s u r e s

    d a u g h t e r d a u g h t e r d a u g h t e r d a u g h t e r d a u g h t e r d a u g h t e
    r
    d e c e i v e
    d e l i v e r y d e l i v e r y d e l i v e r y d e l i v e r y
    d e n i e d
    d e v i a t i o n
    d e v i c e s
    d i e s d i e s d i e s d i e s
    d i f f i c u l t
    d o n o t
    d o g
    D o n \'t d o n \' t D o n \' t
    e a r l i e r e a r l i e r
    e a r l y e a r l y
    e l e c t r o n i c
    e n f o r c e m e n t
    e x e c u t i o n
    e x h a u s t i n g

    f a c t i o n
    f a m i l i a r
    f a m i l y
    f a t
    f o l l o w F o l l o w
    f o r f o r
    f o r e i g n
    f o u n d
    f r o m
    g e t g e t t i n g g e t t i n g
    g e n t l e m e n
    g o o d
    g r o u p
    g r o w




    h a v e
    h e n c e
    h e r h e r h e r
    h o m e

    I I
    I \' d
    i f I f I f I f I f i f i f
    i m m e d i a t e
    i n i n i n i n i n i n i n
    i n d i v i d u a l s
    i n s t r u c t
    i n s t r u c t i o n s i n s t r u c t i o n s i n s t r u c t i o n s
    i s i s i s
    i t I t
    J o h n J o h n J o h n
    k i l l i n g k i l l i n g
    L a w
    l e t t e r
    l i k e
    L i s t e n

    M a k e
    m a r k e d
    m i g h t
    m o n e y m o n e y m o n e y m o n e y
    m o n i t o r
    m u s t
    m y
    n o t n o t n o t
    n o w
    o f o f o f o f o f o f o f
    o n
    o n l y
    o r
    o u r o u r o u r
    o u t s m a r t
    o v e r

    p a p e r
    p a r t i c u l a r l y
    p i c k u p
    P o l i c e
    p o s e s s i o n
    p r o p e r
    p r o v o k e
    p u t



    r e m a i n s
    r e m a i n i n g
    r e p r e s e n t
    r e s p e c t
    r e s t e d
    r e s u l t r e s u l t
    s a f e
    s c a n n e d
    s c r u t i n y
    s e n s e
    s e r v e s
    S h e s h e s h e s h e s h e
    s i t u a t i o n
    s i z e
    s m a l l
    s o s o s o
    s o u t h e r n
    s e e
    s p e a k i n g
    s t a n d s t a n d
    s t r a y
    s u c h
    s u r e
    t a c t i c s
    t a l k i n g
    t a m p e r e d
    t h a t t h a t t h a t t h a t
    t h e t h e t h e t h e t h e T h e t h e t h e t h e T h e t h e t h e t h e
    t h a t t h a t
    t h e m
    t h i s
    t h i n k
    t i m e
    t o t o t o t o t o t o t o t o t o t o t o t o t o
    t o m o r o w
    t r y t r y t r y
    t w o
    u n d e r
    u n d e r e s t i m a t e
    u n h a r m e d
    u p
    u s u s u s
    u s e
    V i c t o r y
    w a n t
    w a t c h i n g
    w a r n e d
    w a y
    W e W e w e w e w e w e w e
    w e l l
    w h e n
    w i l l w i l l w i l l w i l l w i l l w i l l w i l l w i l l w i l l w i l l
    w i t h w i t h
    w i t h d r a w

    y o u y o u Y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u
    Y o u y o u y o u y o u Y o u Y o u Y o u y o u y o u Y o u Y o u y o u
    y o u r y o u r y o u r y o u r y o u r y o u r y o u r y o u r y o u r y o u r
    y o u r s


    xx a m

    F B I e t c S B T C
     
  10. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    ( m r r a m s e y a a a a a a a a a b o u t a c c o u n t a d e q u a t e a d v i s e a d v i s e a l e r t a l s o a n a n a n d a n d a n d a n d a n d a n d a n d a n d a n d a n y a n y a n y a n y o n e a r r a n g e a r e a r e a r e a r e a r e a r o u n d a s a s a t a t t a c h e a u t h o r i t i e s a u t h o r i t i e s b a c k b a g b a n k b a n k b e b e b e b e b e b e b e b e h e a d e d b e i n g b e t w e e n b i l l s b i l l s b i l l s b r a i n b r i n g b r o w n b u r i a l b u s s i n e s s b u t b u t c a l l c a l l c a n c a r e f u l l y c a t c a t c h c h a n c e c h a n c e c o m m o n c o n s t a n t c o u n t r y c o u n t e r m e a s u r e s d a u g h t e r d a u g h t e r d a u g h t e r d a u g h t e r d a u g h t e r d a u g h t e r d e c e i v e d e l i v e r y d e l i v e r y d e l i v e r y d e l i v e r y d e n i e d d e v i a t i o n d e v i c e s d i e s d i e s d i e s d i e s d i f f i c u l t d o n o t d o g d o n \ t d o n \ t d o n \ t e a r l i e r e a r l i e r e a r l y e a r l y e l e c t r o n i c e n f o r c e m e n t e x e c u t i o n e x h a u s t i n g f a c t i o n f a m i l i a r f a m i l y f a t f o l l o w f o l l o w f o r f o r f o r e i g n f o u n d f r o m g e t g e t t i n g g e t t i n g g e n t l e m e n g o o d g r o u p g r o w h a v e h e n c e h e r h e r h e r h o m e i i i \ d i f i f i f i f i f i f i f i m m e d i a t e i n i n i n i n i n i n i n i n d i v i d u a l s i n s t r u c t i n s t r u c t i o n s i n s t r u c t i o n s i n s t r u c t i o n s i s i s i s i t i t j o h n j o h n j o h n k i l l i n g k i l l i n g l a w l e t t e r l i k e l i s t e n m a k e m a r k e d m i g h t m o n e y m o n e y m o n e y m o n e y m o n i t o r m u s t m y n o t n o t n o t n o w o f o f o f o f o f o f o f o n o n l y o r o u r o u r o u r o u t s m a r t o v e r p a p e r p a r t i c u l a r l y p i c k u p p o l i c e p o s e s s i o n p r o p e r p r o v o k e p u t r e m a i n s r e m a i n i n g r e p r e s e n t r e s p e c t r e s t e d r e s u l t r e s u l t s a f e s c a n n e d s c r u t i n y s e n s e s e r v e s s h e s h e s h e s h e s h e s i t u a t i o n s i z e s m a l l s o s o s o s o u t h e r n s e e s p e a k i n g s t a n d s t a n d s t r a y s u c h s u r e t a c t i c s t a l k i n g t a m p e r e d t h a t t h a t t h a t t h a t t h e t h e t h e t h e t h e t h e t h e t h e t h e t h e t h e t h e t h e t h a t t h a t t h e m t h i s t h i n k t i m e t o t o t o t o t o t o t o t o t o t o t o t o t o t o m o r o w t r y t r y t r y t w o u n d e r u n d e r e s t i m a t e u n h a r m e d u p u s u s u s u s e v i c t o r y w a n t w a t c h i n g w a r n e d w a y w e w e w e w e w e w e w e w e l l w h e n w i l l w i l l w i l l w i l l w i l l w i l l w i l l w i l l w i l l w i l l w i t h w i t h w i t h d r a w y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u y o u r y o u r y o u r y o u r y o u r y o u r y o u r y o u r y o u r y o u r y o u r s xx a m f b i e t c s b t c )Min sentence length (words) : 0()Readability (Alternative) beta : (100-easy 20-hard, optimal 60-70)-1466.2

    Frequency and top words :

    WordOccurrencesFrequencyRanke14610.5%1o1289.2%2t1188.5%3i1168.4%4n906.5%5r906.5%5u866.2%6l684.9%7h564%8y483.5%9d433.1%10c433.1%10m322.3%11w302.2%12f292.1%13b271.9%14e 251.8%15t 231.7%16n 191.4%17g191.4%17v151.1%18p151.1%18s 141%19y 141%19d 141%19r 130.9%20k100.7%21g 100.7%21w 60.4%22o 40.3%23l 40.3%23j30.2%24h 30.2%24a30.2%24k 30.2%24m 20.1%25f 20.1%25p 20.1%25c 20.1%25s20.1%25x20.1%25u 10.1%25xx10.1%25z10.1%25q10.1%25a 10.1%25i 10.1%25
     
  11. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    Letter Occurrences Frequency Rank:

    e 171 12.4% 1
    t 141 10.3% 2
    o 132 9.6% 3
    i 117 8.5% 4
    n 109 7.9% 5
    r 103 7.5% 6
    u 87 6.3% 7
    l 72 5.2% 8
    y 62 4.5% 9
    h 59 4.3% 10
    d 57 4.1% 11
    c 45 3.3% 12
    w 36 2.6% 13
    m 34 2.5% 14
    f 31 2.3% 15
    g 29 2.1% 16
    b 27 2% 17
    p 17 1.2% 18
    v 15 1.1% 19
    k 13 0.9% 20
    s 5 0.4% 21
    a 4 0.3% 22
    j 3 0.2% 23
    x 2 0.1% 24
    xx 1 0.1% 24
    z 1 0.1% 24
    q 1 0.1% 24
     
  12. SuperDave

    SuperDave Former Member

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    Maybe this might have something to do with it, beck:

    http://coloradoburning.com/

    Someone on another site pointed me to this. Colorado seems to be absolutely ROTTEN with corruption. When I see this website and then think about that site where the Ramseys, DAs and defense attorneys were all together in a spider's web (http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/6d/6deg.html) that's when I really feel like certain IDIs are insulting my intelligence by claiming that everything was on the up-and-up and dismissing these concerns as "conspiracy-mongering." It took a long time for the scales to fall from my eyes, but when they did (a THUMP heard 'round cyberspace!), I was STUNNED at how the people at the top of this case manipulated events in such a cynical and openly Machiavellian way. They say fish rots from the head down, and boy, were they right.

    Roy likes to say that he feels like he's in a time-warp. Believe me, I KNOW the feeling! Everytime I read about this case, I feel like I've gone back to Italy, circa 1500! A short time ago, I likened Alex Hunter and Mary Lacy to Rodrigo and Lucrezia Borgia. Well, that wasn't just a clever turn of a phrase. I MEANT it. But to include all of the people who killed justice in this case, I'd have to cast a much wider net, one that includes the Ramsey defense attorneys and that skunk Lin Wood.

    It makes me sick the way these people abused their power for their own benefit, the way they manipulated events to hold on to and increase their power and maintain their images, the way they tried to ruin anyone who disgreed with them and f***ed with people's lives and careers, and generally behaved as if they were accountable to nobody.

    Politics ruined this case from Day One, you guys. And I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm DAMN sick of it! I say we fight fire WITH fire! And I'm just the dragon for the job!
     
  13. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    SD,

    My perspectives are not as all inclusive, as I teeter between IDI and RDI. Within both my IDI and RDI leanings, there's room within each perspective for multiple considerations.
    IDI are not ignorant of the suggested wrong doings, given the cast of characters within this case and the goings-on. Blame can be easily assigned. But, IMO it does not allign with a RDI certainty.

    Your perspective is reactionary, passionate, and as you've mentioned, 'man on the street'. It allows you a great leaway.


    Roy is right.
    Precariously balanced. Time Travel.

    Dragons,
    Dragons sometimes singe their own tails.
     
  14. SuperDave

    SuperDave Former Member

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    Maybe not. But it's a fool's errand to act as if it does not exist.

    I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

    Like the old song says, Tadpole: anything goes.
     
  15. anne11

    anne11 Member

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    The use of attaché for me is persuasive of PR writing the note, its "false french" like the name Jonbenet, to get the 'ay' sound as in hay you need the accent é.
     
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  16. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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  17. dodie20

    dodie20 New Member

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    The thing that stood out the most to me, was the whole' fat cat' reference. What foreign faction would use that term? & say 'grow a brain'? Something about fat cat has always bothered me. About a week earlier, JR's company became a billion dollar business. The timing of that has always struck me as too big to ignore. I don't think it points to an intruder, but it does make me wonder what kind of effect it had on their household. The ransom note always struck me as angry and derisive towards JR. Since I think PR wrote the note,( and included his bonus amount for ransom)...I've wondered if those 2 were having some major money issues. It seemed almost as if she was demanding her fair share. That's just my opinion, but if she did write the note, there had to be reasons why she consciously or subconsciously, chose certain phrases and amounts. MOO.
     
  18. Let_Forever_Be

    Let_Forever_Be New Member

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    I think in general terms, the ransom note was an attempt to give credence to the idea that whoever harmed JonBenet was from 'the outside'. Some other 'entity' that came and did all the horrible stuff.

    I believe the ransom note was wrote by Patsy. The reason I believe this is that most handwriting experts could not rule her out based on many handwriting samples. Some explicitly said her handwriting was that of the ransom note author.

    I think specific details are given in the ransom note which are meant to be 'secret' details only a few people would know. John Ramsey was chosen as the protagonist of the note -- in that the note was apparently wrote by someone who had a grudge against him and the country he came from.

    The mention of the $118,000 paycheck was clearly an attempt to make whoever/whomever wrote the note appear as someone who knew private details about John Ramsey's life. Further, the specific number of $118,000 as opposed to say $1million is pretty much designed to give the impression the person was 'annoyed' with John Ramsey and jealous perhaps -- they knew of his $118,000 bonus.

    The fact that the ransom note author specifically mentioned that bonus must reveal something of their inner machinations -- if Patsy wrote the note as assumed, clearly the large sum on John's bonus was a source of happiness/pride/ in a way, so much so that she felt it would be wise to include it in the ransom note to imply 'others' were jealous of it.

    Basically, the ransom note tried to establish a motive for JonBenet's death in my opinion because all that existed in the house was a dead, sexually molested body.
     
  19. dodie20

    dodie20 New Member

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    I think PR wrote that note. I've gone back and forth on whether I think JR was in on it... dictating, whatever. I went back and reread it last night, from the point of view that she acted alone, and it actually made more sense. But IDK...anything is possible. MOO.
     
  20. Let_Forever_Be

    Let_Forever_Be New Member

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    Patsy was an intelligent lady. Not an idiot. So was more than capable of writing the note. I believe the FBI said the note was written by someone with good intelligence -- not some nutjob a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

    If John wasn't in on it, then she was either covering for him or herself of both of them collectively.

    I think JonBenet was killed by an adult family member. There were only two that we know of.
     
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