The Red Turtleneck

[PositiveLight]

2000 March 18
John and Patsy Ramsey book
"Death of Innocence"

DOI (HB) Page 188:

"One day I was driving through the small downtown area in Charlevoix and all these thoughts were playing over and over in my mind. I pulled into the corner 7-Eleven, where JonBenet had often walked with twenty-five cents in her pocket to buy gum or candy, and I went inside to buy a pack of cigarettes."

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-evidence.htm

Who was smoking?
For some reason I remember cigarettes being found outside the home??

I may be remembering something from another case however.
The more I look at that wound on her face, the more it looks like a cigarette burn. I'm just thinking out loud.
But is it possible that PR had started smoking due to stress of the holidays?
Kids will sometimes sneak cigarettes to feel more adult too. Or just to be rebellious.
I know I did myself!
Maybe JB threatened to tell on him when she caught him and he burned her and that started the fight?
Just a thought. The face injury looks to be different than the back injury the more I look at it.

 

[icedtea4me]

2000 March 18
John and Patsy Ramsey book
"Death of Innocence"

DOI (HB) Page 188:

"One day I was driving through the small downtown area in Charlevoix and all these thoughts were playing over and over in my mind. I pulled into the corner 7-Eleven, where JonBenet had often walked with twenty-five cents in her pocket to buy gum or candy, and I went inside to buy a pack of cigarettes."

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-evidence.htm

Who was smoking?
For some reason I remember cigarettes being found outside the home??

I may be remembering something from another case however.
The more I look at that wound on her face, the more it looks like a cigarette burn. I'm just thinking out loud.
But is it possible that PR had started smoking due to stress of the holidays?
Kids will sometimes sneak cigarettes to feel more adult too. Or just to be rebellious.
I know I did myself!
Maybe JB threatened to tell on him when she caught him and he burned her and that started the fight?
Just a thought. The face injury looks to be different than the back injury the more I look at it.

Patsy is the one who was smoking. (Det Thomas also mentions it in his book, that she went outside for a smoke break during her April 1997 BPD interview.) The coroner stated that the marks on JonBenet's face were abrasions, not burns.

http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet02.gif

 

[PositiveLight]

Patsy is the one who was smoking. (Det Thomas also mentions it in his book, that she went outside for a smoke break during her April 1997 BPD interview.) The coroner stated that the marks on JonBenet's face were abrasions, not burns.

http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet02.gif

Well I can't help but think that the ME wasn't very knowledgeable about homicides. They rarely had them. The face wound looks different in my opinion than the back wound.
It was just a thought anyways.
I'd almost say. ALMOST .....because I'm not a ME of course, but the body may not have reacted to the wounds properly since the head wound possibly occurred prior to the pokes or whatever. NOT a stun gun though. After a severe brain injury, the blood starts shunting to the most vital organs to keep them alive. So healing or clotting may not occur due to the time the wound occurred. The face one could have happened right before the ligature. She was close to death at that point. But the ligature ended her life.

Even in the stun gun theory the face wound was considered a burn type injury IIRC. So it does make you wonder what items could cause that injury. I'm just brainstorming out loud.

 

[Tortoise]

Well I can't help but think that the ME wasn't very knowledgeable about homicides. They rarely had them. The face wound looks different in my opinion than the back wound.
It was just a thought anyways.
I'd almost say. ALMOST .....because I'm not a ME of course, but the body may not have reacted to the wounds properly since the head wound possibly occurred prior to the pokes or whatever. NOT a stun gun though. After a severe brain injury, the blood starts shunting to the most vital organs to keep them alive. So healing or clotting may not occur due to the time the wound occurred. The face one could have happened right before the ligature. She was close to death at that point. But the ligature ended her life.

Even in the stun gun theory the face wound was considered a burn type injury IIRC. So it does make you wonder what items could cause that injury. I'm just brainstorming out loud.

I also think it's a burn. From a cigar. Packs of cigars were kept in the wine cellar. I think the parents wanted this to look as brutal as possible, so that family would not be considered. The reason it isn't red and blistered? It was done after she'd been strangled. I don't think burns on a live body would look like burns on a dead one. The first time I saw that black mark on her face I thought it was a cigarette burn, before I'd even read about cigars in the vicinity.

Interestingly, it looks like CBS thought there was a cigar in the wine cellar too. Was that information kept out of the public domain until now, so they could rule out false confessions?

From CBS (RECONSTRUCTED CRIME SCENE)

 

[Tortoise]

Wasn't John asked by Smit about cigar(s) missing from a pack in the wine cellar too? Now I think about it. I'll have to check it out again.

 

[icedtea4me]

I also think it's a burn. From a cigar. Packs of cigars were kept in the wine cellar. I think the parents wanted this to look as brutal as possible, so that family would not be considered. The reason it isn't red and blistered? It was done after she'd been strangled. I don't think burns on a live body would look like burns on a dead one. The first time I saw that black mark on her face I thought it was a cigarette burn, before I'd even read about cigars in the vicinity.

Interestingly, it looks like CBS thought there was a cigar in the wine cellar too. Was that information kept out of the public domain until now, so they could rule out false confessions?

From CBS (RECONSTRUCTED CRIME SCENE)

The coroner stated in his report that the mark on her face below her right ear was a rust-colored abrasion. He did not state it was black.

http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet02.gif

 

[Tortoise]

The coroner stated in his report that the mark on her face below her right ear was a rust-colored abrasion. He did not state it was black.

http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet02.gif

You are correct, and what I wrote is my own description, from looking at the autopsy photographs. The coroner's description of the colour doesn't affect my interpretation of what caused the mark.

 

[PositiveLight]

I also think it's a burn. From a cigar. Packs of cigars were kept in the wine cellar. I think the parents wanted this to look as brutal as possible, so that family would not be considered. The reason it isn't red and blistered? It was done after she'd been strangled. I don't think burns on a live body would look like burns on a dead one. The first time I saw that black mark on her face I thought it was a cigarette burn, before I'd even read about cigars in the vicinity.

Interestingly, it looks like CBS thought there was a cigar in the wine cellar too. Was that information kept out of the public domain until now, so they could rule out false confessions?

From CBS (RECONSTRUCTED CRIME SCENE)

I agree. I don't think the body would react to a burn the same way after death. Therefore it would appear differently. Much like this. Cigar could very well be the cause! Weren't there boxes of cigars mentioned being found in the wine cellar or basement?

 

[Tortoise]

I agree. I don't think the body would react to a burn the same way after death. Therefore it would appear differently. Much like this. Cigar could very well be the cause! Weren't there boxes of cigars mentioned being found in the wine cellar or basement?

Yes, two boxes I believe, and John made out he didn't recognise one of the brands as belonging in the house. Surprise surprise. Not.

 

[Tortoise]

It's known that police redacted something from the list of evidence collected. With CBS putting what looks like an extinguished cigar next to the blanket, one has to wonder why they did that. They could have just placed a box of cigars in the reconstruction.

 

[Tortoise]

Looks like they have a wet patch on the wine cellar floor in their reconstruction too.

 

[PositiveLight]

Yes, two boxes I believe, and John made out he didn't recognise one of the brands as belonging in the house. Surprise surprise. Not.

I would bet money that was the cigar used too.
The one he didn't claim.
Off to sleepy town now. Night night Tort and iced tea! fftobed:

 

[PositiveLight]

Looks like they have a wet patch on the wine cellar floor in their reconstruction too.

That wet patch also looks like its yellow imho too.
Like possibly urine.

 

[singularity]

The more I look at that wound on her face, the more it looks like a cigarette burn.

I have always thought that mark on her face is from a cigar burn. Yeah I'm aware of the autopsy report but its possibly been redacted and there are many things they have not revealed to the public. In the transcripts, they focus on these cigar boxes for some reason and its not because the cigars mean nothing.

 

[No it's not]

I have always thought that mark on her face is from a cigar burn. Yeah I'm aware of the autopsy report but its possibly been redacted and there are many things they have not revealed to the public. In the transcripts, they focus on these cigar boxes for some reason and its not because the cigars mean nothing.

My thoughts as well. This really reminds me of Janet McReynold's 'Hey Rube', her play based on the real murder of Sylvia Likens. I can definitely see, how PR would stage the scene while trying to hint at the Reynolds..many components of it including the *s...* in JB's room. They could not make her eat it, since she was dead, but they could smear it all around..with Burke's help?? Wondering if the *s...* was investigated.. How did that even make sense to begin with? Nobody smelled anything?? Ridiculous.

The real Sylvia Likens was tormented by:

• Extinguishing lit cigarettes upon her skin
• Beating her
• Tying her up
• Burning her with scalding water
• Rubbing salt into her raw wounds
• Forcing her to eat feces and other substances that would cause her to vomit
• Forcing her to remove her clothes and insert a glass Coca-Cola bottle into her vagina (on at least two occasions)

http://www.nytimes.com/1978/06/01/a...ls-of-ritual-killing-loathsome-trio.html?_r=0
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Sylvia_Likens