The Shoe Lace Bindings

[Compassionate Reader]

OK.
Try scrolling down a bit as you should have the whole index on the same page...if it is not click on the 'Home' which is at the start of a line of links - along the top underneath the log-in part! But make sure it is not too close to tip line number as that causes active links not to link!!

Then scroll down. . .

First Forum is 'News Stand' Ignore!

Next is 'West Memphis Three' for General Case Discussion

Click on 'West Memphis Three' and you will get that page. Scroll down, ignoring all the 'stickies' and scroll down to:- ' Paid's diagram of the laces' and you should get it! Not whole thread, but at least the diagram.

Hope this helps!

A lot of the forums are available for 'Guests'. However, as it is not a standard discussion board but a whole web-site with a discussion board component, owned by one of the family members of a victim, some of the topics are only available to members.

To any admins here, I am sorry if I have breached any rules here by explaining how your member can see the diagram on another board. As an admin there I had moved the particular diagram / schematic to a public area so that joining is not necessary to view it.

If you feel the need to edit this, or even delete, then, very obviously, I shall understand!

These are Miranda's instructions. Yes, this is where I got my lengths. Here is a direct link to the diagram. If the link doesn't work, just go here and follow Miranda's instructions above.

 

[kyleb]

Here is a direct link to the diagram.

And again, where can one find can the source(s) for Paid's diagram? I've still yet to find any actual documentation regarding the lengths of the laces, and his description of the knots is inconsistent with Lisa Sakevicius's testimony.

 

[Userid]

Could the phantom shoelace have been due to that last shoe (owned by one of the boys) being too tightened/knotted up to get out of said shoe hastily? Perhaps it was knotted so well (double knotted, even?) that the killer(s) couldn't unravel it, so was forced to use one of his own. I'm just trying to understand why the killer wouldn't just use the lace that was left behind inside the shoe.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

It's just speculation, but I think that, when the first lace in the shoe with a lace remaining was removed, it was too old/too knotted to be used. The killer merely removed one of the two laces in his own LA Gear rip off shoe, cut it in half (as it would have been too long otherwise) and used it to bind Michael. The other lace wasn't needed, so it was simply left in the shoe. Another possible explanation is that the first lace in that shoe was dropped or in some way lost at the murder scene (not the discovery site) and the improvisation was made with his own lace. There are an endless number of possibilities. We may never know, unless the real killer confesses.

 

[kyleb]

Could the phantom shoelace have been due to that last shoe (owned by one of the boys) being too tightened/knotted up to get out of said shoe hastily?

It could've been one shoelace cut in two given the lack of any actual evidence regarding the lengths of the ligatures.

 

[gheckso]

It could've been one shoelace cut in two given the lack of any actual evidence regarding the lengths of the ligatures.

Whilst I can agree with this I find it Interesting how so much discussion is based around the ineptitude of the authorities to accurately document and catalogue this evidence. Wouldn't measuring and associating the laces to victims be a reasonable procedure?

 

[Userid]

It could've been one shoelace cut in two given the lack of any actual evidence regarding the lengths of the ligatures.

Ah, yes -- meaning one of the laces the killer(s) had already removed from one of the victims was unusually longer (compared to the paired shoe).

 

[kyleb]

Wouldn't measuring and associating the laces to victims be a reasonable procedure?

Sure, and perhaps as much was done, and perhaps there's even a document on Callahan detailing as much that's been overlooked. The fact that nobody here has managed to provide any such documentation doesn't come anywhere close to proving otherwise.

Ah, yes -- meaning one of the laces the killer(s) had already removed from one of the victims was unusually longer (compared to the paired shoe).

Well the shoe that still had the lace in it is a high top, so the lace in the other one was surely somewhat longer than those from the low cut shoes the other boys were wearing.

 

[Cappuccino]

No, it Stevie Branch who was wearing high top sneakers.

http://callahan.8k.com/images2/clothing/clothing_245.JPG

The shoe with the lace left in it was Christopher Byers, whose laces would have been shorter than Stevie's.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Earlier, the method of obtaining the lengths of the laces used as bindings was questioned. I went straight to the source. Here is his answer:

I used the autopsy photos with the M.E's ruler as a scale.

The measurements are probably accurate to within 2 to 3 inches.

Hope that clears up the question.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Earlier, the method of obtaining the lengths of the laces used as bindings was questioned. I went straight to the source. Here is his answer:

I used the autopsy photos with the M.E's ruler as a scale.

The measurements are probably accurate to within 2 to 3 inches.

Hope that clears up the question.

I thought the defense was waiting on the laces to be measured?

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10020214&postcount=70"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Shoe Lace Bindings[/ame]

 

[kyleb]

Earlier, the method of obtaining the lengths of the laces used as bindings was questioned. I went straight to the source. Here is his answer:

I used the autopsy photos with the M.E's ruler as a scale.

The measurements are probably accurate to within 2 to 3 inches.

Hope that clears up the question.

I thank you for taking the time to get that response, but is there any chance you would ask Paid to provide those photos so I can check his claims against them?

 

[Userid]

Sure, and perhaps as much was done, and perhaps there's even a document on Callahan detailing as much that's been overlooked. The fact that nobody here has managed to provide any such documentation doesn't come anywhere close to proving otherwise.


Well the shoe that still had the lace in it is a high top, so the lace in the other one was surely somewhat longer than those from the low cut shoes the other boys were wearing.

Edit: Never mind, I got it now.

 

[Userid]

Sure, and perhaps as much was done, and perhaps there's even a document on Callahan detailing as much that's been overlooked. The fact that nobody here has managed to provide any such documentation doesn't come anywhere close to proving otherwise.


Well the shoe that still had the lace in it is a high top, so the lace in the other one was surely somewhat longer than those from the low cut shoes the other boys were wearing.

No, it Stevie Branch who was wearing high top sneakers.

http://callahan.8k.com/images2/clothing/clothing_245.JPG

The shoe with the lace left in it was Christopher Byers, whose laces would have been shorter than Stevie's.

Now I'm just confused -- aren't both these shoes from the same pair?

Also, didn't JMB admit to buying the "black and purple" shoes for Christopher in the immediate weeks preceding the murders?

EDIT: Actually, nevermind, I see what you're saying now Cappuchino. Stevie was wearing the high tops, but the picture in your post was of Chris' sneakers.

Just to clarify, couldn't Chris' sneakers be considered "high tops" also?

 

[Cappuccino]

Unless my memory is playing tricks on me I'm pretty sure Christopher's sneakers were bought only two days before the murder. I'll ask on the BB later when I'm over there.

Re: the photos of the sneakers - there are three sneakers posted on the Callahans site, I assume one from each boy. The one with the shoe lace left in is Christopher's, the white tennis shoe is Michael's, so logically the high top sneaker must be Stevie's. I'll double check that later too, but afaik that's the case.

 

[kyleb]

What pictures are you alluding to on Callahan exactly? I've seen the black pair you and I each posted a picture along with this picture and this one but those are lower cut than the black high tops. Also, where are you getting whose shoes were whose from?

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I thank you for taking the time to get that response, but is there any chance you would ask Paid to provide those photos so I can check his claims against them?

I don't think so. Those autopsy photos are considered too hurtful to the parents to banter about. I'm sure you can see them on an autopsy site, if you're willing to risk a virus on your computer!

 

[kyleb]

I'm not asking for anyone to banter anything about, but rather for the evidence on which claims of fact are being based, and there's no reason to consider that hurtful. What's hurtful to anyone with a sense of decency is flashing autopsy photos and videos of the boys' corpses on as gore-*advertiser censored* as was done throughout the PL movies as they argued around the evidence to scapegoat one parent after another.

 

[reedus23]

I don't think so. Those autopsy photos are considered too hurtful to the parents to banter about. I'm sure you can see them on an autopsy site, if you're willing to risk a virus on your computer!

I, for one, can do without seeing the autopsy files. I would imagine the families would probably prefer to not know that their kids' autopsy photos are being passed around and analyzed six ways to Sunday.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I, for one, can do without seeing the autopsy files. I would imagine the families would probably prefer to not know that their kids' autopsy photos are being passed around and analyzed six ways to Sunday.

Exactly! That is why I won't provide links to such. Anyone who wants to look can search out these photos on those gore-slinging autopsy sites. A word of caution: those sites can cause your computer to become infected with a nasty virus. So, when those photos are discussed, one should either accept the stated information (instead of implying that the supplier is lying in some way) or seek out the autopsy sites on their own. As to the showing of the bodies in the documentaries, although it was shocking, it was not as "personal" as the autopsy photos would be IMO - not by a long shot!