The Sidebar - Ross Harris Trial

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I consider myself an agnostic at this point when it comes to whether RH intentionally left Cooper in the car.

While the close distance between CF and where RH parked for work makes it seem that it would be impossible for him to forget Cooper, we don't know what was going on in RH's mind during that whole morning.

While he may have been going through the motions of taking care of Cooper (taking him to breakfast, etc), that doesn't mean that his mind was focused on those tasks. He could have been completely preoccupied with something else. If he wasn't deeply mentally engaged with his son that morning, and merely just "going through the motions" so to speak, then it seems plausible to me that his mind did drift away from Cooper during that short drive.

If that was the case, then it shouldn't matter if it was a 1 minute drive, or a 10 minute drive to the day care.

Right. But if it is true that he was not really paying attention to his toddler, and his mind drifted away because he was not fully engaged, then that should result in a GUILTY verdict for the criminal neglect charge, in my opinion. Babies are totally dependent upon their caregivers to keep them alive and safe each day. In fact, each minute. Anything can go wrong. My 18 month old almost choked on a penny that she put in her mouth ,and it took my 4 yr old to warn me about it. We need to be FULLY ENGAGED with our young children in order to keep them safe.
 
I think it's important to consider how putrid his son would have smelled. Decomposition would have been vastly accelerated in a hot car and the stench would singe your nostrils like none other.
I can't imagine him driving anywhere without immediately knowing something was so wrong, he'd search his car before driving off from work.
We're talking a smell that would have been horrific upon first opening the car door.
 
At the PC Hearing, Stoddard testified when asked that there were NO emotions by RH while in back of patrol car (not true) Stated did not cry when in the interview room alone (not true)

Under Def Kilgore cross:
Orig Warrant was Cruelty to a Child 1st Degree.
Kilgore: When was cruelty to child?
Stoddard: When left in car all day
Kilgore: Warrant doesn't alledge that act was intentional
Stoddard: Correct
Kilgore: If not intentional, then would you agree non-intentional?
Stoddard: thinks evidence now shows intent

6/24/16 put to 2nd Degree < was changed to when the murder charge added, Stoddard said multiple pieces of evidence, and primarily how the charge 2nd degree worded

Thought it was interesting that RH and Winston both forgot about going to Home Depot. Kilgore went through all the day and everything RH told LEo and they all checked out.

When asked if Stoddard knew whether RH had any physical limitations, Stoddard said if he had any he wouldn't be able to drive a car. Stoddard or Piper neither one so far knew of RH being deaf in R ear.

RESEARCH is Stoddard word he agrees

Child Free - April 2014, clicked on did not type in Search
How to Survive in Prison - typed in Search but (as of that July 3, 2014 PC hearing) they did not have date searched
Video by a vet that was shared on various social media June 13 accessed, but did not Google it (Stoddard says he couldn't say) Says watched twice. Does not have a time when watched just date,
Could it be he clicked to resume? Stoddard: Cant say

Makes me think of flashbacks of Casey Anthony and computer searches then to find out the information given to State by software person was incorrect. Not correct number of searches as the jury heard testimony was lead to believe. JMHO

BBM.
Please correct me if I'm wrong! I seem to remember at the hearing, that he said RH showed no genuine emotion or tears.

I am interested to see how this internet stuff plays out. At the hearing, they didn't have most of the technology fully investigated, yet. I think many people are waiting to see if the evidence is really as bad as it sounded. It could play a big part.
 
Thank you to whomever it was that posted the AJC link. I found them all very interesting and easy to understand and follow. 3 goes over the charges and RH wife http://breakdown.myajc.com/episode/episode-3/ Interesting #4 it speaks about the Lawyers and Judge. Kilgore was once a  DA for Cobb Cty http://breakdown.myajc.com/episode/episode-4/


Thanks for taking the time to review pretrial info and to post about it. Surely does contribute to having an informed discussion about case particulars. :)
 
I don't think that you can prove a person forgot. It's part of the reason that cases like this fascinate me. However, the evidence can give credence to a particular theory. For example, were drugs or alcohol involved? Is there testimony that points to a distracted defendant? Additionally, forgetting is the result of a neurological breakdown, and those kind of breakdowns typically follow a pattern. Were any of those common causes present in the case (for example a change in routine)? JMO.


Sounds like the defense is going to bring in experts to try to "prove" that it was indeed possible for Harris to forget Cooper, and perhaps, that the "forgetting" had nothing to do with being distracted.

I don't think the defense has much choice but to attempt to convince the jury of that. IMO the most inexplicable and damning facts facing the defense are --

--how it was possible for Harris to not see Cooper in the car seat at some point before he exited and walked away from the car, given how close to Harris Cooper was in the car seat, and that Cooper's head had to be visible from the front seat (unless Cooper fell asleep and it was possible for his head to slide/droop/fall below the top of the too small car seat).

--how quickly Harris would have had to "forget" Cooper (1 or 2 or 3 minutes, whatever), and how thoroughly he would have to have been sure in his own mind that he'd dropped Cooper off, to not "remember" when prompted by cues, including photos of Cooper, emails, mentions of his son in his own texts, etc.

I know a lot of folks think Harris's computer activity might be pivotal, but I doubt that, personally, one way or the other, unless the jury as a whole is completely unsavvy about the internet and how common it is to for some folks (including me) to get lost for hours just "surfing," going off on tangent after tangent by following link after link after link, and often enough, being sent off on those tangents by reading or seeing something completely unrelated pop up on one of the pages being skimmed and quickly abandoned.

Maybe I'm predisposed to believe the defense's claim that Harris was an info junkie because I'm one myself, but because I am one, I'm receptive to believing that the internet history of info and research junkies probably isn't very compelling evidence of anything more than the fact that the user has eclectic interests and is an info junkie.

In other words (being succinct isn't one of my strong points, sorry), I'm pretty confident the State doesn't have any "smoking gun" searches by Harris to produce at trial, though it wouldn't surprise me if the State explained that lack by claiming Harris deleted portions of his search history.
 
Sounds like the defense is going to bring in experts to try to "prove" that it was indeed possible for Harris to forget Cooper, and perhaps, that the "forgetting" had nothing to do with being distracted.

**Snipped For Brevity **

Even with expert testimony explaining how it can happen, some jurors might hold firm to a possible belief that forgetting and unintentionally leaving a child in a vehicle is not possible for any parent period. As a result, regardless of the circumstances, every parent should be charged. Many people believe this>> I could never forget my child. It hasn't happened to me...therefore, it can't happen to anyone else.
 
For anyone interested in another case on WS of a child being left in a hot car death, check out the thread in Child Crimes of Cheyenne Hyer,3 years old, intentionally left in her mother's car, and left there for 5 hours. Her mother is (was, was fired) a police officer, and Cheyenne was left in her mother's patrol car while her mother went into a house to "visit" a gentleman (she says she unintentionally fell asleep while visiting).

The difference of most interest to me is in how the mother was charged- a single count of manslaughter. In Florida the death of a child by (criminal) culpable negligence is considered aggravated manslaughter, a first degree felony punishable by up to 30 years.

Compare that to GA , and the potential punishment of Harris if he is convicted of "just" the charges of second degree child cruelty and felony murder with the predicate of 2nd degree child cruelty -- up to life, or LWOP.

And btw, Cheyenne's mother had left Cheyenne in her car at least before, and had been on record for having done so. Yet, she was freed on bail, and hasn't yet spent a minute in jail.
 
I do believe that, as with the internet search or random clicking, you can explain almost every point. It is the weight of the whole that convinces me - not any one part.

The weird behavior
The (possible) internet searches and their timing
The "malicious intent" comment
The small car seat adjusted for a small infant
The nearness in the car of Connor's head
Testimony that Connor talked of "school" and "red trucks" and the need to believe that he instantly fell
asleep(within seconds of being strapped in at CFA )
The financial issues + insurance $
The disbelief that he could forget Connor during this short drive
The disbelief that for the entire day he never remembered
The disbelief that putting lightbulbs into car wouldn't alert him to Connor's presence
and there are more...
 
Oh, and I have another question. What is the significance of Ross Harris's hearing loss in one ear. Is the defense suggesting that because of that he could not hear Connor (talking, singing, crying, or whatever) in the carseat that was inches away from his head?
 
For anyone interested in another case on WS of a child being left in a hot car death, check out the thread in Child Crimes of Cheyenne Hyer,3 years old, intentionally left in her mother's car, and left there for 5 hours. Her mother is (was, was fired) a police officer, and Cheyenne was left in her mother's patrol car while her mother went into a house to "visit" a gentleman (she says she unintentionally fell asleep while visiting).

The difference of most interest to me is in how the mother was charged- a single count of manslaughter. In Florida the death of a child by (criminal) culpable negligence is considered aggravated manslaughter, a first degree felony punishable by up to 30 years.

Compare that to GA , and the potential punishment of Harris if he is convicted of "just" the charges of second degree child cruelty and felony murder with the predicate of 2nd degree child cruelty -- up to life, or LWOP.

And btw, Cheyenne's mother had left Cheyenne in her car at least before, and had been on record for having done so. Yet, she was freed on bail, and hasn't yet spent a minute in jail.

I was reading about this case last night and it completely angers me. Just the few details that have been reported are awful.

However, I think RH's charges and potential punishment (in regards to the negligence and felony murder) are appropriate. Unfortunately, the charges for this "mom" they are woefully inadequate. To the chief's credit, he did request a bond hearing for higher bail. Wish that would have been considered.

JMO
 
You are right in my book, JudyBolton, it's not any one part, but the weight of the whole. To me he's guilty on all accounts. However the few things he's done that makes him guilty in my book, is I can't get past how he claims he forgot within a few minutes. He remembered to take him out of the house, put him in the car, drive to CFA, take him out of the car, walk into CFA, walk him back to car, strap him in and within a few minutes, if that, FORGETS!!! No way! He didn't forget to take him into CFA, no that wouldn't have killed Cooper, but leaving him in the car for 7 or more hours in the heat, would kill him. :(
 
Oh, and I have another question. What is the significance of Ross Harris's hearing loss in one ear. Is the defense suggesting that because of that he could not hear Connor (talking, singing, crying, or whatever) in the carseat that was inches away from his head?

This will be interesting. I think the prosecution will be able to scrutinize to an extent, what the defense will likely do with that.

I'm sure they will try to refute that RH couldn't hear Cooper.

(I have 2 deaf people in my mother's side of the family. My mom was a teacher's assistant at our local speech and hearing school my whole childhood. I have life long friends and "family" I made there. Having been around a large and diverse number of deaf and partially deaf people my whole life...the he couldn't hear Cooper theory gets a gigantic eye roll from me.)
 
Yes, of course the burden of proof is on the prosecution. What I am saying, is you seem to believe the searches didn't really happen, simply because the defense says they didn't. OF COURSE they are going to say that! They aren't going to agree. We haven't even come to that batch of evidence being presented and scrutinized, yet. Why not wait until that happens, before it's assumed the detective is lying? I just find it strange that the defense is believed so readily, before we've even reached that part of the trial. Accusing a detective of lying before it's presented in this trial is really lofty. I don't think either side can or should be accepted as fact right now. (IMO.) I have my own opinions, but if the evidence shows something else...well, I've been wrong before.
I totally agree. We really haven't seen any of that evidence thus far and I anxiously await more facts. The reason I keep an open mind on Stoddard is the fact he stated smell of decomposition to help himself secure a warrant for JRH when no one else at the scene reported the smell. I am trying to place more emphasis on reports and testimony from that sad day rather than thoughts and opinions today. Also, I anxiously need to hear from co-workers, friends, etc about daily life and their interpretations of how Ross and Cooper interaction. I have heard reports of how friends and co-workers kept getting tired of all the daily stories JRH proclaimed non-stop about all the fun times w Cooper. I want to see their testimony and see if they are credible. I remain on the fence w open eyes. This is such an emotional trial. Some want JRH head on a platter and we haven't even seen much evidence yet. I want a fair trial with appropriate verdict. I personally feel JRH was negligent that day with all his sexting, but in know way feel it was premeditated. I could easily be wrong.
 
I do believe that, as with the internet search or random clicking, you can explain almost every point. It is the weight of the whole that convinces me - not any one part.

The weird behavior
The (possible) internet searches and their timing
The "malicious intent" comment
The small car seat adjusted for a small infant
The nearness in the car of Connor's head
Testimony that Connor talked of "school" and "red trucks" and the need to believe that he instantly fell
asleep(within seconds of being strapped in at CFA )
The financial issues + insurance $
The disbelief that he could forget Connor during this short drive
The disbelief that for the entire day he never remembered
The disbelief that putting lightbulbs into car wouldn't alert him to Connor's presence
and there are more...

I have struggled with believing Harris forgot so quickly. However, I am interested in and will be open to the expert testimony of how this can happen.
 
I do believe that, as with the internet search or random clicking, you can explain almost every point. It is the weight of the whole that convinces me - not any one part.

The weird behavior
The (possible) internet searches and their timing
The "malicious intent" comment
The small car seat adjusted for a small infant
The nearness in the car of Connor's head
Testimony that Connor talked of "school" and "red trucks" and the need to believe that he instantly fell
asleep(within seconds of being strapped in at CFA )
The financial issues + insurance $
The disbelief that he could forget Connor during this short drive
The disbelief that for the entire day he never remembered
The disbelief that putting lightbulbs into car wouldn't alert him to Connor's presence
and there are more...


I agree that the totality of evidence is always and rightfully more meaningful than any one point or even multiple points. (Obviously, though, the defense will have to refute points individually, though, and provide a counter explanation /narrative for each one, which is why I think analyzing each point separately is useful).

Even though the State doesn't have to prove motive per se, they do need to convince the jury about Harris's state of mind in order to successfully argue intent.

I think they'll rely on his "searches" and his extramarital activity to try to establish that Harris wanted to be free of Cooper, and that he had looked into hot car deaths as a means of killing his son.

If the jury keeps an open mind, based on what we know now (admittedly incomplete as it is), I'd guess (or would hope, at least) they would be unconvinced by computer evidence or the sexting alone that he had intent, and so will look at how the morning unfolded without seeing everything through the prism of assumed intent.

I honestly can't imagine how in the world the defense will convince a jury, though, that it was possible for Harris to forget Cooper in such a short time, no matter how many experts they hire and bring in to explain how it is medically and psychologically and neurologically possible.

And even if they accept that forgetting was possible, theoretically, I think the fact of Cooper's proximity might well be one too many implausibles for them to accept.

That's why I think Leanne's testimony will be most crucial to the defense. She will apparently be testifying that Harris loved Cooper, would never dream of harming him, and that she has never doubted that what happened to Cooper was a terrible accident.

My guess is she will also testify that she was aware of her ex-husband 's infidelities, that they had sought counseling and pastoral guidance together, and that while both knew their marriage was in trouble, both were committed to trying to make it work because both put Cooper first.

I'm also willing to guess that Leanne will try to assume some of the responsibility for what happened, including not transferring the larger car seat back into Ross's car.

Just guesses. But, if even close to what happens, and if the jury finds Leanne convincing, compelling, and sympathetic, I think the jury might square the circle by disbelieving intent, but believing absolutely that Harris was extraordinarily negligent, given every clue and cue available to him during the 5 minutes from CFA to work, in being capable of "forgetting" that Cooper was in the car.
 
I look forward to hearing from Leanne as well. She is a strange bird in my opinion. Her comments at the funeral were very strange. Her comments to Ross were also strange ("did you say too much".)

Did they not state that there were internet searches from the home computer about hot car deaths? I found this news article " Police say that both parents did extensive internet searches on the subject and made comments that seemed suspicious after the child’s death..." http://www.waggonerinsurance.com/2016/02/14/wife-of-man-charged-in-hot-car-death-files-for-divorce/ BBM

So, if true, there is another coincidence. Did they both just click on the same link randomly while killing time online? Will the jury believe that?
 
I'm also looking forward to hearing Leanne. Also I'm keeping in mind that Ross, and even in his own words, said he was living a double life. I'm sure when he was with his family he put on the "loving" family act, but he didn't seem to when it came to his "other life". JMO! ;)
 
I look forward to hearing from Leanne as well. She is a strange bird in my opinion. Her comments at the funeral were very strange. Her comments to Ross were also strange ("did you say too much".)

Did they not state that there were internet searches from the home computer about hot car deaths? I found this news article " Police say that both parents did extensive internet searches on the subject and made comments that seemed suspicious after the child’s death..." http://www.waggonerinsurance.com/2016/02/14/wife-of-man-charged-in-hot-car-death-files-for-divorce/ BBM

So, if true, there is another coincidence. Did they both just click on the same link randomly while killing time online? Will the jury believe that?

I was just coming to post similar.

"Leanna Harris, the child's mother, was also questioned regarding the incident and made similar statements regarding researching in car deaths and how it occurs,'' according to new search warrants made public Sunday. The warrants were released by Cobb County magistrate officials, and obtained by Fox 5 in Atlanta, and other media outlets.

On Saturday, warrants showed the boy's father, Justin "Ross" Harris, 33, also recently researched the topic. The warrants do not say when those searches took place. "During an interview with Justin, he stated that he recently researched, through the internet, child deaths inside vehicles and what temperature it needs to be for that to occur. Justin stated that he was fearful that this could happen," the warrants said.

http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2014/06/wife_of_justin_ross_harris_als.html

If this turns out to be a lie by LE then IMO a mistrial should be declared. Hopefully it will be cleared up when Leanna is on the stand, plus they should have video/audio evidence of the statements.

And as for Professor Diamond (the professional defense witness who testifies about his theory of "Forgotten Baby Syndrome") - don't underestimate the power of his testimony. He helped get Jayde Poole (Australia) off manslaughter charges; she left her baby in the car after driving 186 yards down the street to pick up fast food.

I hope whoever did the forensic examination of the Harris devices got all the evidence (as opposed to what happened in CA).
 
I was just coming to post similar.



http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2014/06/wife_of_justin_ross_harris_als.html

If this turns out to be a lie by LE then IMO a mistrial should be declared. Hopefully it will be cleared up when Leanna is on the stand, plus they should have video/audio evidence of the statements.

And as for Professor Diamond (the professional defense witness who testifies about his theory of "Forgotten Baby Syndrome") - don't underestimate the power of his testimony. He helped get Jayde Poole (Australia) off manslaughter charges; she left her baby in the car after driving 186 yards down the street to pick up fast food.

I hope whoever did the forensic examination of the Harris devices got all the evidence (as opposed to what happened in CA).

I recall that at the hearing, it was said the interview was both video tapes and audio taped. Shouldn't the defense already have viewed and listened to it? If they have, and that is not what what was actually said (meaning the detective lied,) wouldn't that have been brought up already?
 
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