The Trash Bag in Casey's Trunk

[repairmom]

I wonder if the SA has looked at the garbage for dates on the food packaging? If any of the food packaging shows the food was produced AFTER June 19th or whatever date ICA began to complain to AH about the smell, it would prove it could not have been the garbage.

 

[Oakley]

I wonder if the SA has looked at the garbage for dates on the food packaging? If any of the food packaging shows the food was produced AFTER June 19th or whatever date ICA began to complain to AH about the smell, it would prove it could not have been the garbage.

I am sure they went over everything with a fine tooth comb, and then some. The forensic experts will testify convincingly that there is no way in hejj decomposition can be mistaken for garbage. Not even human decomp vs squirrel decomp, as Dr Vass testified. Apples and oranges.

 

[seagull65]

Dr. Furton (the expert who does have a background in chemistry), a very well respected chemist in the field used a lot by FBI, DOD, NSF, etc, stated that the decomposition signature in the air sample from the Pontiac trunk was consistent with the decomposition of fatty acids present in the trash items that were in the trunk (i.e. bag of trash from the trunk, and maybe other items. Remember there was the crystal light container in that bag that the FBI lab said appeared to have urine in it, etc, hair in that bag, various food package items, the used pizza box, stained napkins, etc, all sitting in the heat of the trunk at the towyard.) The prosecution apparently had reports from two of the chemists in Dr. Vass's group, as well as from Dr. Vass, but chose not to use the reports by the chemists, and only used Dr. Vass's testimony (he is apparently not a chemist). It sounds like the defense will argue this point. It looked from evidence testimony like the defense will also argue the fact that Dr. Vass only included chloroform in his final report after receiving info from the investigators/prosecution that chloroform was suspected. And, one of the control samples (carpet from car trunks not involved in this case) supposedly also contained chloforom in its air signature, so that most likely will be a point mentioned at trial.

The thing about the trunk smell that still puzzles me is that Casey was talking openly to Amy saying there was a smell in her car, wondering what it was, finally saying it must be from an animal. The prosecution insist decomp in the trunk must have begun around June 16, and that Casey finally abandoned the car due to the smell. Yet, Tony L stated there was no smell while standing next to her car on June 23 (? please correct me on that date), and Tony and the roommates said she parked the car at their place up to the day at Amscot and apparently they didn't notice any smell throughout that time, they stated no strange smell on her person either while she was driving it.

I agree it's strange that this bag of trash would be in her car trunk to begin with, that's the main question regarding the bag of trash that still puzzles me. That, and whose urine was that in the container LOL

 

[seagull65]

Was there actually decomp found on anything(bag) in car?

nothing that was proved as human decomp, only an air sample that showed chemicals that could be produced by decomposition of fatty acids (which could be from various sources: human, animal, food, and in various products).

 

[Tulessa]

Dr. Furton (the expert who does have a background in chemistry), a very well respected chemist in the field used a lot by FBI, DOD, NSF, etc, stated that the decomposition signature in the air sample from the Pontiac trunk was consistent with the decomposition of fatty acids present in the trash items that were in the trunk (i.e. bag of trash from the trunk, and maybe other items. Remember there was the crystal light container in that bag that the FBI lab said appeared to have urine in it, etc, hair in that bag, various food package items, the used pizza box, stained napkins, etc, all sitting in the heat of the trunk at the towyard.) The prosecution apparently had reports from two of the chemists in Dr. Vass's group, as well as from Dr. Vass, but chose not to use the reports by the chemists, and only used Dr. Vass's testimony (he is apparently not a chemist). It sounds like the defense will argue this point. It looked from evidence testimony like the defense will also argue the fact that Dr. Vass only included chloroform in his final report after receiving info from the investigators/prosecution that chloroform was suspected. And, one of the control samples (carpet from car trunks not involved in this case) supposedly also contained chloforom in its air signature, so that most likely will be a point mentioned at trial.

The thing about the trunk smell that still puzzles me is that Casey was talking openly to Amy saying there was a smell in her car, wondering what it was, finally saying it must be from an animal. The prosecution insist decomp in the trunk must have begun around June 16, and that Casey finally abandoned the car due to the smell. Yet, Tony L stated there was no smell while standing next to her car on June 23 (? please correct me on that date), and Tony and the roommates said she parked the car at their place up to the day at Amscot and apparently they didn't notice any smell throughout that time, they stated no strange smell on her person either while she was driving it.

I agree it's strange that this bag of trash would be in her car trunk to begin with, that's the main question regarding the bag of trash that still puzzles me. That, and whose urine was that in the container LOL

http://writersforensicsblog.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/dead-folks-and-decay/#comment-534

 

[seagull65]

Tulessa, I was so sorry to read at the bottom of your post about your brother and his wife. My prayers are with you.

 

[Tulessa]

Tulessa, I was so sorry to read at the bottom of your post about your brother and his wife. My prayers are with you.

Thank you SG. :blowkiss:

 

[LambChop]

Dr. Furton (the expert who does have a background in chemistry), a very well respected chemist in the field used a lot by FBI, DOD, NSF, etc, stated that the decomposition signature in the air sample from the Pontiac trunk was consistent with the decomposition of fatty acids present in the trash items that were in the trunk (i.e. bag of trash from the trunk, and maybe other items. Remember there was the crystal light container in that bag that the FBI lab said appeared to have urine in it, Wasn't that the bottle found at the remains site? There was a bottle/can in the trash that contained chewing tobacco but no urine etc, hair in that bag, various food package items, the used pizza box, stained napkins, etc, all sitting in the heat of the trunk at the towyard.) The prosecution apparently had reports from two of the chemists in Dr. Vass's group, as well as from Dr. Vass, but chose not to use the reports by the chemists, and only used Dr. Vaiss's testimony (he is apparently not a chemist). While his major was not in chemistry he still was required to take chemistry and has an understanding of chemical compositions It sounds like the defense will argue this point. It looked from evidence testimony like the defense will also argue the fact that Dr. Vass only included chloroform in his final report after receiving info from the investigators/prosecution that chloroform was suspected. And, one of the control samples (carpet from car trunks not involved in this case) supposedly also contained chloforom in its air signature, so that most likely will be a point mentioned at trial. The control sample contained very little (normal) amounts while the carpet sample from the Pontiac contained amounts that were over the capability of the meter to read it, something like 10,000 times as much as normal. Pure chloroform I believe they said.

The thing about the trunk smell that still puzzles me is that Casey was talking openly to Amy saying there was a smell in her car, wondering what it was, finally saying it must be from an animal. The prosecution insist decomp in the trunk must have begun around June 16, and that Casey finally abandoned the car due to the smell. Yet, Tony L stated there was no smell while standing next to her car on June 23 and I believe he stated that all he could smell was the gas. (? please correct me on that date), and Tony and the roommates said she parked the car at their place up to the day at Amscot and apparently they didn't notice any smell throughout that time, they stated no strange smell on her person either while she was driving it. Tony stated in his depo that they pretty much used his car when they went out. And there was one day when KC went to Jesse's to shower. [/INDENT][/COLOR]

I agree it's strange that this bag of trash would be in her car trunk to begin with, that's the main question regarding the bag of trash that still puzzles me. That, and whose urine was that in the container LOL

Hope this helps answers in red. jmo

 

[allycat1208]

:waitasec: Has the defense even mentioned the Squirrel story that Casey gave?

I believe the State will use the Dead Squirrel texts against Casey..the texts were sent from her to Amy, no one asked her for that info..it came directly from her, she acknowledged the smell and gave an explanation for it.

I am not sure the DT will bring up the squirrel story, I thought CSI checked for Dead Squirrel and there was no evidence found. the DT are determined to go with the trash made the smell story.:crazy:

The dead squirrel story is really funny to me. The dead squirrel text will help the State much as it shows she's aware of a smell and has to possibly explain it in case a friend gets in or close to her car...although I think its pretty ridiculous. The garbage being in the car is a better cover up although it is still pretty preposterous. I have never heard of a squirrel getting in a car and dying in it. It maybe possible, but highly unlikely. Its much more possible you put garbage in the car trunk and forgot to throw. Either story sounds absurd though.

 

[Oakley]

Someone please correct me if I am mistaken. IIRC there was no meat, meat products, pizza or food of any kind in the garbage bag in Casey's trunk. It only contained empty food containers, correct?

 

[allycat1208]

Dr. Furton (the expert who does have a background in chemistry), a very well respected chemist in the field used a lot by FBI, DOD, NSF, etc, stated that the decomposition signature in the air sample from the Pontiac trunk was consistent with the decomposition of fatty acids present in the trash items that were in the trunk (i.e. bag of trash from the trunk, and maybe other items. Remember there was the crystal light container in that bag that the FBI lab said appeared to have urine in it, etc, hair in that bag, various food package items, the used pizza box, stained napkins, etc, all sitting in the heat of the trunk at the towyard.) The prosecution apparently had reports from two of the chemists in Dr. Vass's group, as well as from Dr. Vass, but chose not to use the reports by the chemists, and only used Dr. Vass's testimony (he is apparently not a chemist). It sounds like the defense will argue this point. It looked from evidence testimony like the defense will also argue the fact that Dr. Vass only included chloroform in his final report after receiving info from the investigators/prosecution that chloroform was suspected. And, one of the control samples (carpet from car trunks not involved in this case) supposedly also contained chloforom in its air signature, so that most likely will be a point mentioned at trial.

The thing about the trunk smell that still puzzles me is that Casey was talking openly to Amy saying there was a smell in her car, wondering what it was, finally saying it must be from an animal. The prosecution insist decomp in the trunk must have begun around June 16, and that Casey finally abandoned the car due to the smell. Yet, Tony L stated there was no smell while standing next to her car on June 23 (? please correct me on that date), and Tony and the roommates said she parked the car at their place up to the day at Amscot and apparently they didn't notice any smell throughout that time, they stated no strange smell on her person either while she was driving it.

I agree it's strange that this bag of trash would be in her car trunk to begin with, that's the main question regarding the bag of trash that still puzzles me. That, and whose urine was that in the container LOL

I was reading Tony's transcript recently. I found it strange he never smelled anything, All I could think of now is that the smell just got worse and worse obviously and maybe you had to be in the car up until the 23rd or so to notice it. I think the 23rd is the date she runs out of gas by her house. I think sometime after the 23rd she tells Amy about the smell of dead squirrel in car. I guess by the time she leaves it at Amscot it must have been unbearable. Still, that doesn't explain why nobody notices a smell on her.

 

[LEFT-COASTER]

Its quite common for those in apts.. to put bags of trash in thier trunk and dropping it at the dumpster on the way out of the complex to avoid walking and carrying it.. .. I think casey took the trash to show tl what a good little roomie she was cleaning and cooking and all.. and then was just to darn lazy to dump it in the dumpster.

 

[Just Jayla]

First she tells Amy she ran over squirrels.
Then her Dad ran over squirrels.
Then the squirrels were plastered on the car frame.

She says she got rid of it.

So I too wonder...will the STATE prove that by examining the car absolutely
no proof of any squirrel decomp on or near any part of the car.
Plus she ran out of gas and said someone helped her push the car where it was found.
Hope they have the person who helped her push it to the parking spot by the dumpster....
where is this person?

Not only the state....Dr. Lee examined her car so thoroughly, he found what, 17, additional hairs-but no fur was mentioned.

The defense kinda sorta mentioned the squirrel, IIRC, when JB asked AH in her deposition if anyone called the police about a squirrel hit by a car. Not funny, JB....AH shoulda asked him back whether anyone called the police when Caylee was killed. Oops, not for 31 days...

If they had the pusher, he would have been deposed I would think.

 

[Just Jayla]

Its quite common for those in apts.. to put bags of trash in thier trunk and dropping it at the dumpster on the way out of the complex to avoid walking and carrying it.. .. I think casey took the trash to show tl what a good little roomie she was cleaning and cooking and all.. and then was just to darn lazy to dump it in the dumpster.

BBM-I have done that many times...TL and the detectives talked about doing that, too.

Under other circumstances, I would agree with you about the trash bag, but I think it was a cover-up and here's why:

06/24-KC opens the trunk at the A's house to give GA back his f'ing gas cans-no trash bag that we know of, or if there is, why didn't she then throw it away?
06/26-KC mentions to AH there is a death smell (my paraphrase)
06/27-KC dumps the car at Amscot

So, between 06/25 and 06/27, KC didn't look around her car to find the source of the smell? No way. I left a trash bag inside my truck in the summer one time, and when I got in and smelled it, I immediately looked around, found it and tossed it. BTW, the smell was out of my truck after a few minutes of driving with the windows down, not months of smell.

She knew what the smell was and she did not take the trash bag out because she thought it was clever to leave it there as a cover-up. Now, is it possible she forgot it in there initially, but then when she saw it she decided to leave it as a cover-up? Sure, I suppose it is.

 

[treeseeker]

Bump 'cause I just re-read parts myself

 

[DeadCat]

I think it was a cover-up and here's why:

06/24-KC opens the trunk at the A's house to give GA back his f'ing gas cans-no trash bag that we know of, or if there is, why didn't she then throw it away?
06/26-KC mentions to AH there is a death smell (my paraphrase)
06/27-KC dumps the car at Amscot

So, between 06/25 and 06/27, KC didn't look around her car to find the source of the smell? No way. I left a trash bag inside my truck in the summer one time, and when I got in and smelled it, I immediately looked around, found it and tossed it. BTW, the smell was out of my truck after a few minutes of driving with the windows down, not months of smell.

She knew what the smell was and she did not take the trash bag out because she thought it was clever to leave it there as a cover-up. Now, is it possible she forgot it in there initially, but then when she saw it she decided to leave it as a cover-up? Sure, I suppose it is.

After the latest forensic testimony, I re-examined the photos of the trash bag and some items do look like they might attract a lot of flies. Some of the photos look like they could have been 3 week old "decomposed" food, which would have really smelled. http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19105250/detail.html
Some of the paperwork in the bag is dated mid/end of May, so I wondered:

1) could the trash have caused the smell
2) if not, did she really store Caylee in the trunk with a bag of trash

And if that bag was this wet (see photo) after 3 weeks (?) or so of being in the trunk, it must have started out as really wet!
Then I had my aha moment and had to come to search on Websleuths to see who else had noticed. I realized the same that Jayla had posted.

Why didn't she toss the bag?

So, I'm now even more convinced that bag wasn't in the trunk for long and was used to cover up the smell.

Why hasn't the State pointed this out --the why didn't she throw out the trash--when the defense talks about the "food" in the trunk? (Or have they and I missed it?)

 

[carole]

After the latest forensic testimony, I re-examined the photos of the trash bag and some items do look like they might attract a lot of flies. Some of the photos look like they could have been 3 week old "decomposed" food, which would have really smelled. http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19105250/detail.html
Some of the paperwork in the bag is dated mid/end of May, so I wondered:

1) could the trash have caused the smell
2) if not, did she really store Caylee in the trunk with a bag of trash

And if that bag was this wet (see photo) after 3 weeks (?) or so of being in the trunk, it must have started out as really wet!
Then I had my aha moment and had to come to search on Websleuths to see who else had noticed. I realized the same that Jayla had posted.

Why didn't she toss the bag?

So, I'm now even more convinced that bag wasn't in the trunk for long and was used to cover up the smell.

Why hasn't the State pointed this out --the why didn't she throw out the trash--when the defense talks about the "food" in the trunk? (Or have they and I missed it?)

BBM

The flies that the CSIs are referring to are not common houseflies that we all see. They are coffin flies that are attracted to decomposition and wouldn't be attracted to this kind of trash.

 

[cv1964]

JA did a good job on this one... "have you ever seen/heard of a bag of trash smelling for TWO years after it was removed?"

I too hope the SA brings up the fact that she opened the trunk when she put the gas cans in AND had already been concerned about a smell, yet she still didn't notice the trash was in the trunk and just toss it into the dumpster sitting right next to the car?

After the latest forensic testimony, I re-examined the photos of the trash bag and some items do look like they might attract a lot of flies. Some of the photos look like they could have been 3 week old "decomposed" food, which would have really smelled. http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19105250/detail.html
Some of the paperwork in the bag is dated mid/end of May, so I wondered:

1) could the trash have caused the smell
2) if not, did she really store Caylee in the trunk with a bag of trash

And if that bag was this wet (see photo) after 3 weeks (?) or so of being in the trunk, it must have started out as really wet!
Then I had my aha moment and had to come to search on Websleuths to see who else had noticed. I realized the same that Jayla had posted.

Why didn't she toss the bag?

So, I'm now even more convinced that bag wasn't in the trunk for long and was used to cover up the smell.

Why hasn't the State pointed this out --the why didn't she throw out the trash--when the defense talks about the "food" in the trunk? (Or have they and I missed it?)

 

[katydid23]

JA did a good job on this one... "have you ever seen/heard of a bag of trash smelling for TWO years after it was removed?"

I too hope the SA brings up the fact that she opened the trunk when she put the gas cans in AND had already been concerned about a smell, yet she still didn't notice the trash was in the trunk and just toss it into the dumpster sitting right next to the car?

Exactly. And as my teen daughter pointed out, WHY would she put laundry air fresheners in her car, and leave the smelly trash, like the copenhagen can, in the car? And what 20 yr old girl wants a used spit can of Copenhagen sitting and roasting in their car, when it isn't even their boyfriends, but his roomate's trash? WHY was that in there?

 

[Jolynna]

After the latest forensic testimony, I re-examined the photos of the trash bag and some items do look like they might attract a lot of flies. Some of the photos look like they could have been 3 week old "decomposed" food, which would have really smelled. http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19105250/detail.html
Some of the paperwork in the bag is dated mid/end of May, so I wondered:

1) could the trash have caused the smell
2) if not, did she really store Caylee in the trunk with a bag of trash

And if that bag was this wet (see photo) after 3 weeks (?) or so of being in the trunk, it must have started out as really wet!
Then I had my aha moment and had to come to search on Websleuths to see who else had noticed. I realized the same that Jayla had posted.

Why didn't she toss the bag?

So, I'm now even more convinced that bag wasn't in the trunk for long and was used to cover up the smell.

Why hasn't the State pointed this out --the why didn't she throw out the trash--when the defense talks about the "food" in the trunk? (Or have they and I missed it?)

Dr. Huntington's testimony of Friday debunked any and all questions about whether or not there was any food in the trash. There wasn't any. Zero, zilch.

According to Dr. Huntington the entomologist, the sources of the smell and the items that were attracting the flies were an open can of tobacco spit and a piece of salami. The trash was gone through. The open can of tobacco spit was empty. The piece of salami was a piece of paper.

The defense "expert" had egg on his face and was forced to say there was NO FOOD in the trash.

Forever resolving the trash vs garbage issue.