Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #8

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I cannot imagine Casey putting duct tape on a decomposing body. The only thing I can imagine Casey doing if she got freaked out about some postmortem twitching or whatever is to quickly put Caylee's body in a trash bag, dump her (sorry sweet Caylee) in the trunk and then go about her merry way.

I think she put the tape on pretty soon after she found her dead (or had killed her with a pillow or whatever...) I think her mind was racing and she came up with the idea of the kidnapping scenario right then, and in her crazy head, maybe she had seen a movie with a victim taped up, she decided to do that. I agree she would not do it a day or two later...Caylee may have been dead a few hours before she even found her, if Caylee expired as a result of something Casey gave her.
The whole thing with keeping her in the trunk is just baffling for a planned attack to me...I do understand "premeditated" can mean minutes...it's not that. It is just that if she was really planning on killing Caylee, had a plan, etc...it would include body disposal before her car became literally undriveable due to the odor...
 
I cannot imagine Casey putting duct tape on a decomposing body. The only thing I can imagine Casey doing if she got freaked out about some postmortem twitching or whatever is to quickly put Caylee's body in a trash bag, dump her (sorry sweet Caylee) in the trunk and then go about her merry way.

**Warning- In the second paragraphy I give some rather graphic thoughts and theories. I do so because the more I hear at trial, the more the (IMO likely) horror of what Casey actually did and saw continues to be all too real to me and wash over me. The more I hear, the more I realize how Caylee's murder and disposal wasn't "just" a matter of murder/negligence but an entire process that required thought, planning, and active effort so that even *if* Caylee's death was an accident, her disposal was certainly premeditated.**

Unfortunately, I think that Casey just dumped Caylee's body somewhere and the placing of her tiny body in bags happened after fluids started to pour out. I say that because of the smell on her clothes and the adipose on the paper towels in the trunk. I believe that Casey didn't think of fluids coming out, I have to admit that though my first thought (after WHY and HOW??!!! could she do that??!!) was "why place her in a trunk in the FL heat?" Anyone who has watched a forensic drama ie: CSI, Criminal Minds, much less anyone who has read about murders or watched Forensic Files, etc knows that bodies start to decompose rather rapidly and in heat, even more so and start to stink and attract bugs.

At any rate, I feel she was not only looking at Caylee's body change as she decomposed, from bloat stage, to putrid stage, the molting of the skin, the leaking of fluids, etc at least 2x, the first when she moved the body from the first location to her trunk and the 2nd when she bagged Caylee's rotting body.

:twocents::twocents:
 
I cannot imagine Casey putting duct tape on a decomposing body. The only thing I can imagine Casey doing if she got freaked out about some postmortem twitching or whatever is to quickly put Caylee's body in a trash bag, dump her (sorry sweet Caylee) in the trunk and then go about her merry way.
"Decomposing" wouldn't typically describe an hours past death body, imo.
 
"Decomposing" wouldn't typically describe an hours past death body, imo.

I don't believe it was an accident.

She could have smothered or drowned Caylee on purpose and then applied tape, I suppose. That doesn't seem reasonable to me as she threw the body away and carried on as though nothing had happened. There is no way I can believe that Casey put the duct tape after the 17th. Is it possible? Yes. Is it a reasonable explanation? NO.

I know there are several possibilities. I'm only including simple and reasonable ones to help me come to a conclusion. My conclusion is that she put three pieces of duct tape on Caylee to kill the poor little girl.
 
I don't know if this has been posted already, but I just happened to come across an interview with (be nice) Leonard Padilla from June 17, 2011, which can be found here. In the interview, Padilla says:

"I am firmly convinced that it was an overdose of chloroform that caused the death of the child. She had been using it to put the child to sleep. She couldn't afford Xanax anymore, and on the night of the 15th, Cindy and her had a hellacious argument, and she ran out of their house with the child."

But that would have made it an accident. I don't think KC had been using chloroform on Caylee until the night she died, and that's why we saw the search for "death" and "shovel" along with the "chloroform" search. That's also why we didn't see a scared, sad, or nervous KC. Remember KC's diary entry, where she says she has no regrets about what she did, but she's finally happy? I hope it makes it into rebuttal evidence.
 
I don't believe it was an accident.

She could have smothered or drowned Caylee on purpose and then applied tape, I suppose. That doesn't seem reasonable to me as she threw the body away and carried on as though nothing had happened. There is no way I can believe that Casey put the duct tape after the 17th. Is it possible? Yes. Is it a reasonable explanation? NO.

I know there are several possibilities. I'm only including simple and reasonable ones to help me come to a conclusion. My conclusion is that she put three pieces of duct tape on Caylee to kill the poor little girl.

Honestly I can't visualize Casey personally handling Caylee's body too long after death, therefore, I agree, the duct tape was applied to keep her from screaming and/or breathing.

MOO
 
But that would have made it an accident...
No, I believe that makes it murder one.

It's no different than whacking your kid in the head with a hammer to make them "sleep" -- eventually, it will prove fatal and any hit has the potential to kill.
 
rose222 Registered User
<<<<< I cannot imagine Casey putting duct tape on a decomposing body. The only thing I can imagine Casey doing if she got freaked out about some postmortem twitching or whatever....... >>>>>


I can understand Casey [KC] wrapping the duct tape early on when she detected the odor coming from the truck with the belief it would quench the smelly decomp pooling.

It's just the heart sticker placement timing that gives me pause. When the body [face] is intact before or soon after death, endearment will bubble-out the emotional reaction. But later when it difficult to look at - need I say more - who wants to linger over the remains?

See the heart issue doesn't add up. Death occurs in the house or where the stickers were accessible and as an after though. Was KC having a rage breakdown that Monday afternoon [to keep caylee quiet or kidnap plan] while her parents gave the "ultimatum"? How could she have premeditated the decomp?
 
Everyone on this board has put & is putting more thought into seeking justice for Caylee than the jury did. The jurors took an oath! I still cannot get over how quickly the jury reached a verdict - they could not have weighed any evidence.

Since 2008 - I have felt as though Caylee was killed by Casey Anthony. The murder of Caylee was premeditated. I have felt as though Casey is a person without a conscious - read "People of the Lie" by M. Scott Peck. The book "People of the Lie" is disturbing but describes Casey Anthony.

Casey Anthony being free amongst us is scary - she doesn't have a conscious & will murder again if it suits her. At least we know who she is - none of us will mistakenly invite a person without a conscious into our lives.

I do hope that I was wrong & the jury got it right. The evidence against Casey Anthony, in my opinion, did show beyond a reasonable doubt that she murdered Caylee. I can't believe the jury didn't at least find Casey Anthony guilty on manslaughter.

I've tried to think of another explanation - if Caylee's death was an accident & Caylee was so afraid of her mother that she couldn't tell - so Casey decided to stay clear of her parents for as long as possible planning a lie that Caylee has been taken by the Nanny. If Caylee's death was an accident - then why didn't Casey Anthony say so October 2008, January 2009 - ANYTIME! I don't Casey Anthony could say it was an accident because it was not an accident.

I apologize but the verdict of Not Guilty is very upsetting to me. If anyone can stomach it - could someone walk me through the Defense's Closing Arguments. I know Jose Baez said that George Anthony was the only person in the world to report stolen gas cans & that he knew the car was somewhere but waited to go and get it.

I really need to know what that jury thought - when I watched Jose Baez in Closing Arguments he didn't say anything that I found would give reasonable doubt that Casey Anthony is not guilty - I did not hear anything said that should sway 12 reasonable people to not even find Casey Anthony Guilty of Manslaughter.

There is something wrong with this jury!

I do apologize, again, for going and on & on. I am much more upset by this verdict than I ever imagined I would be. If someone could, please walk me through Jose Baez's Closing Arguments.

Also, please explain to me the importance of the gas cans, George Anthony reporting the gas cans stolen, Caylee Anthony's "Big Trouble Shirt" found with the remains - why is it important that Cindy Anthony never saw this shirt before.

I'm sure I will have more questions - questions that probably only Casey Anthony could answer. However, at this moment I would not even want to sit in a room & talk to Casey Anthony. I think she is scary person and I would not want her to know who I am.

Thanks for anyone who will go back into this case with me - the verdict has me very upset. I don't understand how 12 people could come to the verdict of Not Guilty. I don't see why the gas cans, George Anthony reporting his gas cans stolen, Cindy Anthony not ever seeing a shirt of Caylee's before.
 
I don't pretend to know much about this case. I only followed the trial and have no other history. But because I believe in another explanation of what happened I have reasonable doubt. Caylee died accidentally in the pool. Cindy or Casey were watching her but through their negligence the drowning happened. George conspired with them to hide the death as long as possible. Because of his le backround he had a plan. I believe Cindy would never have allowed 31 days to pass w/o seeing Caylee. Lee wasn't involved because he was considered a weak link and a poor liar.
 
firefox, Thank you for taking the time to reply. I don't think that there was an accident & Cindy & George agreed to cover it up. Cindy called the police & made Casey Anthony get on the phone with the police. If Cindy had not alerted authorities - then no one would have started asking questions. If she was in on covering up an accident - then why would she call police. At some point after Casey was arrested & charged with the Murder of Caylee I think Casey would have told that her parents knew about the accident & helped conceal the accident. I don't think Casey would have sit in jail so long without telling about her mom and dad's involvement.

Again, thank you to responding to my below post.

Everyone on this board has put & is putting more thought into seeking justice for Caylee than the jury did. The jurors took an oath! I still cannot get over how quickly the jury reached a verdict - they could not have weighed any evidence.

Since 2008 - I have felt as though Caylee was killed by Casey Anthony. The murder of Caylee was premeditated. I have felt as though Casey is a person without a conscious - read "People of the Lie" by M. Scott Peck. The book "People of the Lie" is disturbing but describes Casey Anthony.

Casey Anthony being free amongst us is scary - she doesn't have a conscious & will murder again if it suits her. At least we know who she is - none of us will mistakenly invite a person without a conscious into our lives.

I do hope that I was wrong & the jury got it right. The evidence against Casey Anthony, in my opinion, did show beyond a reasonable doubt that she murdered Caylee. I can't believe the jury didn't at least find Casey Anthony guilty on manslaughter.

I've tried to think of another explanation - if Caylee's death was an accident & Caylee was so afraid of her mother that she couldn't tell - so Casey decided to stay clear of her parents for as long as possible planning a lie that Caylee has been taken by the Nanny. If Caylee's death was an accident - then why didn't Casey Anthony say so October 2008, January 2009 - ANYTIME! I don't Casey Anthony could say it was an accident because it was not an accident.

I apologize but the verdict of Not Guilty is very upsetting to me. If anyone can stomach it - could someone walk me through the Defense's Closing Arguments. I know Jose Baez said that George Anthony was the only person in the world to report stolen gas cans & that he knew the car was somewhere but waited to go and get it.

I really need to know what that jury thought - when I watched Jose Baez in Closing Arguments he didn't say anything that I found would give reasonable doubt that Casey Anthony is not guilty - I did not hear anything said that should sway 12 reasonable people to not even find Casey Anthony Guilty of Manslaughter.

There is something wrong with this jury!

I do apologize, again, for going and on & on. I am much more upset by this verdict than I ever imagined I would be. If someone could, please walk me through Jose Baez's Closing Arguments.

Also, please explain to me the importance of the gas cans, George Anthony reporting the gas cans stolen, Caylee Anthony's "Big Trouble Shirt" found with the remains - why is it important that Cindy Anthony never saw this shirt before.

I'm sure I will have more questions - questions that probably only Casey Anthony could answer. However, at this moment I would not even want to sit in a room & talk to Casey Anthony. I think she is scary person and I would not want her to know who I am.

Thanks for anyone who will go back into this case with me - the verdict has me very upset. I don't understand how 12 people could come to the verdict of Not Guilty. I don't see why the gas cans, George Anthony reporting his gas cans stolen, Cindy Anthony not ever seeing a shirt of Caylee's before.
 
firefox, Thank you for taking the time to reply. I don't think that there was an accident & Cindy & George agreed to cover it up. Cindy called the police & made Casey Anthony get on the phone with the police. If Cindy had not alerted authorities - then no one would have started asking questions. If she was in on covering up an accident - then why would she call police. At some point after Casey was arrested & charged with the Murder of Caylee I think Casey would have told that her parents knew about the accident & helped conceal the accident. I don't think Casey would have sit in jail so long without telling about her mom and dad's involvement.

Again, thank you to responding to my below post.

Everyone on this board has put & is putting more thought into seeking justice for Caylee than the jury did. The jurors took an oath! I still cannot get over how quickly the jury reached a verdict - they could not have weighed any evidence.

Since 2008 - I have felt as though Caylee was killed by Casey Anthony. The murder of Caylee was premeditated. I have felt as though Casey is a person without a conscious - read "People of the Lie" by M. Scott Peck. The book "People of the Lie" is disturbing but describes Casey Anthony.

Casey Anthony being free amongst us is scary - she doesn't have a conscious & will murder again if it suits her. At least we know who she is - none of us will mistakenly invite a person without a conscious into our lives.

I do hope that I was wrong & the jury got it right. The evidence against Casey Anthony, in my opinion, did show beyond a reasonable doubt that she murdered Caylee. I can't believe the jury didn't at least find Casey Anthony guilty on manslaughter.

I've tried to think of another explanation - if Caylee's death was an accident & Caylee was so afraid of her mother that she couldn't tell - so Casey decided to stay clear of her parents for as long as possible planning a lie that Caylee has been taken by the Nanny. If Caylee's death was an accident - then why didn't Casey Anthony say so October 2008, January 2009 - ANYTIME! I don't Casey Anthony could say it was an accident because it was not an accident.

I apologize but the verdict of Not Guilty is very upsetting to me. If anyone can stomach it - could someone walk me through the Defense's Closing Arguments. I know Jose Baez said that George Anthony was the only person in the world to report stolen gas cans & that he knew the car was somewhere but waited to go and get it.

I really need to know what that jury thought - when I watched Jose Baez in Closing Arguments he didn't say anything that I found would give reasonable doubt that Casey Anthony is not guilty - I did not hear anything said that should sway 12 reasonable people to not even find Casey Anthony Guilty of Manslaughter.

There is something wrong with this jury!

I do apologize, again, for going and on & on. I am much more upset by this verdict than I ever imagined I would be. If someone could, please walk me through Jose Baez's Closing Arguments.

Also, please explain to me the importance of the gas cans, George Anthony reporting the gas cans stolen, Caylee Anthony's "Big Trouble Shirt" found with the remains - why is it important that Cindy Anthony never saw this shirt before.

I'm sure I will have more questions - questions that probably only Casey Anthony could answer. However, at this moment I would not even want to sit in a room & talk to Casey Anthony. I think she is scary person and I would not want her to know who I am.

Thanks for anyone who will go back into this case with me - the verdict has me very upset. I don't understand how 12 people could come to the verdict of Not Guilty. I don't see why the gas cans, George Anthony reporting his gas cans stolen, Cindy Anthony not ever seeing a shirt of Caylee's before.

George reporting the gas cans stolen was questionable behavoir because he knew Casey often took gas from the shed. It was not new to her. He even stated on the stand he saw were gas had ran down the side of her car.

He can notice a tiny thing like that yet act clueless about the rest of his life? Not likely.

He knew Casey stole the cans. so his motive of calling LE was what? We will never know.

The shirt , I dunno what was important except it was Caylee and cindy washed the clothes and the shirt may or may not have been to small (i missed that part of closing)

That said I cant go over the closing of the defence I watched most of it but my mind was made up before they finished or even started that the evidence was not there.

RK killed any possiblity that one could trust the duct tape as evidence Casey Anthony murdered Caylee and the fact that the medical eximiner used that very piece of evidence as a base for her homicide ruling ruined the states case. IMO.

So there you have the main factor in the shocking ruling IMO. There are many others as well that do not stem from anything Jose Baez alledged in his opening or closing but things that were presented as evidence by witnesses in the case on both sides and by evidence presented by the state.

I hope someone can walk you thought the closing but I cannot as I only put weight into long enough to decided he wasnt as bad a lawyer as I thought him to be. Maybe the jury saw it different than I did.

But for me I would have had to hang this jury if they would have insisted on a conviction because the ME and the duct tape and RK. I would have not put ANY weight into that tape evidence because of GA and his lies and gas can issues, the ME stating she could not say it was ever on the face, the fact skulls dont land in the position that skull was in ,and RK moved the skull and gave 7 depo's about it and the state didnt call him up to the stand at all. um why?

then the chloroform searches being listed as 84 times just to have that proven to be a mistake, I mean once was bad enought but if the state makes mistakes like then what else did they mess up?
This is a DP case. It is a big deal.

JMO.
 
The male alternated juror with glasses who spoke to the media - I have to believe that he doesn't know why the jury reached their verdict - he indicated that the jury didn't believe George Anthony.

If the jury didn't believe George Anthony & thought that George Anthony was somehow involved - I still do not see how this equates to a NOT GUILTY verdict on all major charges for Casey Anthony.

Casey Anthony is a danger to society - look at what she has done - I think that she will do it again. In her mind I think she believes that she is a well liked celebrity - in her mind it's okay for her to have more children - in her mind the public would be interested getting relationship advice from her.

If Casey Anthony had a conscious - this conscious would say "look what happened to Caylee ... you shouldn't have more children ... donate all of the money you can make to missing children organizations .... do your penance ... you are lucky that you were found Not Guilty."

Casey Anthony doesn't do this because she doesn't have a conscious - she is a person of the lie. There is a book called People of the Lie which describes the type of person Casey Anthony is. The only benefit that the public has is that we know who and what she is.

I am heartbroken over this verdict for many reasons. I'm heartbroken that a child could have been saved by Tim Miller if he hadn't become involved with Casey Anthony. I'm heartbroken that there are people with missing children who have to hear this verdict - which to me is the jury saying "we don't care about children."

I do know that if you child is safe & healthy it is not to be taken for granted & as a parent your duty is to love & protect your child.

I think there was something wrong with that jury - they didn't even take the time to weigh the evidence. They didn't even give a baby who was thrown away like trash the respect of reviewing the case.

If you go outside and the grass is wet, that's circumstantial evidence that it rained. I wish the prosecutors would have gone over the Validity of Circumstantial Evidence before giving this case to the jury.

I am giving up on trying to understand the male alternate juror who spoke to the media about the Not Guilty verdict. I hope no one pays the jurors any money to get their story - the female juror that spoke out was given a family trip to Disney. I don't think this jury should be further encouraged - they didn't do their jobs as doing their jobs would have required deliberating longer than 10 hours.
 
It all might have had something to do with the Anthony family financial
situation.

A possible scenerio:
Casey had no money, no job and no insurance on Cayee.
George and Cindy had financial problems (?) and no insurance that covered
Caylee. There were constant fights with Casey about money.

When Caylee was accidently killed (by Casey), Casey's warped thinking
took over and she figured she could avoid confrontations about the accident
and about the cost of funeral expenses if she put out all the stories she
did put out during those 30+ days after the 16th.

She carried Caylee around in the trunk of the car and eventually placed her in the woods.

I apologize if this theory has been previously discussed.
 
My theory is FCA covered Caylee's face with duct tape. And the heart sticker is a huge factor to me. Anyone who has been around tots knows that they can be bribed or placated with stickers. In my imagination, I can see FCA telling Caylee that they're going to play a little game, FCA says "let me put this tape on your face, and look I'll put this pretty heart sticker on if you'll be a good little girl and do this." Another thing I'm wondering was Caylee learning to swim at this time, and hold her breath underwater? FCA could have convinced her that this was practice for holding her breath. Mind you, I grew up in Ft. Lauderdale and my mom had me in swim lessons when I was 3 y.o., and I remember putting my face in the water and holding my breath was a big deal.

eta: moo
 
Maybe there's a little truth in JB's OS when he says GA said to ICA "Look what you've done! Your mother will never forgive you for this!"
Just a theory:
Maybe Caylee died on June 16, 2008 at the hands of her mother. She put Caylee's body in the trunk for a few days- maybe more. The A's find some evidence in the house and confront ICA or GA discovers the body the gas can day. ICA admits to them yes, it was an accident that "snowballed out of control." They are devastated and furious at ICA, but realize she will be charged with murder if they do not help cover up. By this time, it is too late to get Caylee back, they are only focused on saving their daughter from a murder conviction. Cindy takes vacation the last week of June. They are getting their stories straight.
Somewhere along the line before July 15, the kidnapping story is invented by all the A's. They know if they dump the car, it will get towed. Casey can blame Zanny for the kidnapping, hence the duct tape. CA being a nurse, and GA an ex-cop, they could handle applying duct tape to stage the Zanny kidnapping. They prepare the body, apply tape, a heart, and one of them disposes of the body in the woods. At this point, the story was Zanny took her, but all the details were not thought out. Maybe the early version was going to be that Caylee was snatched from the house by Zanny, so they threw her in the woods as if Zanny had done just that.
The Zanny story evolves a bit to include Zanny and her sister physically take Caylee from ICA at J Blanchard Park, since LE knows she didn't leave Caylee at Sawgrass. ...because Zanny said ICA is a bad mother...there's that familiar bit of truth thrown in there once again.
They tell ICA, the best thing to do, is to act like nothing is wrong. Do not act like anything is out of the ordinary to her friends until they finalize their story. They know the clock is ticking- friends and family are going to soon get suspicious. They receive the notice for the car, and the theatrics begin.
The reason ICA doesn't tell police her parents were in on it, is because she is ultimately at fault. They helped cover up. CA assures her daughter they are going to have to throw her under the bus a bit, but for her to hang in there, because the longer Caylee is not found, the less chance of her getting in trouble. They probably thought if the body was found sooner, ICA would be released as a grieving mother of a murdered child. No one finds the body, months go by, CA directs Dominic Casey and Hoover to the site but they can't find her.
Kronk does find her for the 2nd time in December.
The scheming continues for 3 years until the trial.
Ca probably told her through messages to JB, "Just trust me on this, sweetheart. It's the only way to save your life, leave it up to Dad and me and Jose."
And she was right.
CA tells ICA on that first phone call from jail, "It's not MY fault you're in jail, sweetheart. If you hadn't told lies, you wouldn't be there." ICA getting arrested was part of the grand plan. To keep ICA away from the public eye. She is not as sympathetic as a worried mother and CA is as a desperate grandmother looking for her missing grandchild. CA tries to keep the public focus on finding Caylee rather than the questions the public had about ICA's behavior. At one point, CS even says ICA is safer in jail. She doesn't want her talking.
So all the jailhouse tapes are played out for the public only. Remember CA saying, "Calm down, sweetheart." She doesn't want ICA slipping up on tape. Those tapes mean nothing at all- they were the A's greatest performances. They A's only really communicate through notes via JB.
CA's lies on the stand are the Last Act of the play. Bravo to them. The liars won.
 
I think Casey murdered Caylee alone. She had a big date with the guy she thought was her ticket to party town with the whole club promotions thing....she drugged her and duct taped her mouth to keep her quiet...Caylee woke up and freaked out...and suffocated herself because of the tape. There is a woman in jail in Maine who duct taped her foster child to keep her quiet....and she suffocated.
I don't think Casey put much thought into it....she wanted Tonee and she did what she "had" to....and THAT is the accident gone terribly wrong.jmo
Too bad that jury let a murderer go free.
 
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