"Theories only" - thread

Discussion in 'Elisa Lam' started by summer_breeze, Mar 3, 2013.

  1. EmMaBu

    EmMaBu Member

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    This is my first post on this thread. I believe she died accidentally due to her mental health, possibly exacerbated by medication. I have seen people suggest both ambien and sleepwalking and agree that the video footage might be interpreted that way. Possibly she had taken ambien to sleep during a manic episode and experienced the crazy effects it can have. I think the hand gestures just before she appears to be counting might even be a swimming gesture, i.e. possibly she was hallucinating or dreaming (or, if medication was not a factor, just thinking) about swimming, which would link to the tank.

    Conversely, I also think it's possible she didn't actually understand, due to her mental state, that there was water in the tank. Possibly she got in the tank for some other reason logical to her not thinking she was lowering herself into water at all.

    The bit towards the start of the footage where she quickly puts her head out of the elevator and back in again - she was just trying to check if there was a reason the doors weren't closing without them closing on her. I have done that lots of times, sometimes they close quite aggressively so you avoid being in their path.
     
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  2. josiemaria93

    josiemaria93 New Member

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    I have thought about this for a while and I don't believe her manic episode caused her to go up onto/into the water tank. I also don't believe that someone carried her (dead) up into the water tank. Perhaps someone was actually filming her - or getting her to reenact scenes from that movie dark waters, she believed she was just acting (could explain why she kept jumping out of the elevator doing weird things.. if someone outside was filming her). After she got up there onto the tank the person filming either pushed her in the tank knowing she wouldn't be able to get back out or she jumped in as part of the film and the person filming her tried to help her/pull her out (asking her to remove her clothes, tie them together to make a rope) though this was unsuccessful and the person just left her there out of fear that they'd be accused of something.
     
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  3. josiemaria93

    josiemaria93 New Member

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    I have thought about this for a while and I don't believe her manic episode caused her to go up onto/into the water tank. I also don't believe that someone carried her (dead) up into the water tank. Perhaps someone was actually filming her - or getting her to reenact scenes from that movie dark waters, she believed she was just acting (could explain why she kept jumping out of the elevator doing weird things.. if someone outside was filming her). After she got up there onto the tank the person filming either pushed her in the tank knowing she wouldn't be able to get back out or she jumped in as part of the film and the person filming her tried to help her/pull her out (asking her to remove her clothes, tie them together to make a rope) though this was unsuccessful and the person just left her there out of fear that they'd be accused of something.
     
  4. Starscope

    Starscope New Member

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    It's possible that in somewhat an adventurous state of mind she found her way to the rooftop without thinking about how to get back down.

    This could cause an adrenalin rush which can exacerbate mania, sending her into panic.

    The water tanks might have looked like a kind of alternative entry leading back into the hotel. Maybe they gave an impression of refuge.

    I think its likely she undressed inside the tank because bulky, heavy and cold clothing would hinder any chance at escaping.
     
  5. Qrious

    Qrious Active Member

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    There are a lot of things about this case that don't make sense. Foremost is the elevator footage. So many questions about it and still no satisfactory answers.

    Yes, a psychotic episode is used as the contributing factor for her accidental death, with people accepting it based on her seemingly strange behaviour in the elevator footage. Yet people are not willing to question the reliability of the elevator footage itself, given its so many anomalies.

    Are there other elevator footage? Most likely yes, but perhaps there were other people in the elevator too. So police couldn't release those footage. So she might have gone up to the 14th floor with one or more others in the elevator. And perhaps too police have checked and ruled them out.

    Yes, I agree with you. She could not have removed her clothes because of hypothermia. The water was not freezing cold. It would have taken a long time to die from hypothermia. She would have been exhausted threading water by then.

    Police theorise she removed her clothes to lighten herself to stay afloat. She was not wearing bra. As to whether necessary to remove her panties too, her thinking might have been affected by her psychotic state at that time.

    One big question is, if the hatch was opened during all that time up to the discovery of her body, why didn't police notice it when they searched the roof? Surely, someone would have gone up to search the top of that equipment room which overlooks the four water tanks. It would have been very noticeable if one of the lids was off. Or the search helicopter would have picked that out.

    Surely they should have also searched between the water tanks and saw the ladder leading up to that tank. And seeing that the tank top was flat, would have at least climbed up halfway to check it out. Unless LAPD did a half job and is too embarrassed to admit it.
     
  6. Qrious

    Qrious Active Member

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    My thinking based on the facts leads to more or less the same thoughts as yours. I'm thinking she was coaxed into entering the tank by a guy she was attracted to. The same guy she was with on the 14th floor and who led her up to the roof via the disarmed door or the fire escape ladders outside the building.

    EL posted a long time in her blog and revealed much about her bipolar condition. There is a high chance that someone took an interest in her. When she opened herself for meet-ups on her trip, this guy could have contacted her and arranged to meet her in San Diego, and then in LA again.

    When it was pointed out that this case resembled the plot of Dark Water, I thought it purely coincidental. Movies, especially horror ones, imagine all sorts of scenarios for their plots. There were at least 40,000 movies already made by 2013. So, it was not that difficult to find a movie plot that mirrored what happened in EL case.

    But double coincidence is on a different level. What is double coincidence? Say, you and I just met and we found out that our grandmas shared the same birthdate. That's a coincidence with odds of about one in several hundred thousands at least. Suppose we also found out that our grandmas also shared the same date that they passed away. Now, that would be a double coincidence, with odds in the tens of billions. It would be more likely that it's not a coincidence at all, that, in fact, we share the same grandma!

    So, back to EL case. It resembling the plot of Dark Water is one coincidence. But, at the same time, EL dressing almost exactly as the character in Dark Water - now, that's a double coincidence indeed! Take a look at these pictures. The screenshots are from the original 2002 Japanese movie, not the remake:

    IMG_5810.PNG
    IMG_5819.PNG

    And this...
    IMG_5807.PNG
    IMG_5806.PNG

    It is certainly creepy if we believe these are purely coincidental - a double coincidence of the plot and the dressing. So, it leads me to think it is not any synchronicity. I theorise that the guy whom EL met was obsessed with the original Japanese movie. He could be born rich and very free to indulge in wayward stuffs out of ennui. He saw EL's travel as a chance to meet up with her and get her to indulge in his fantasies.

    Seeing how EL was playful and smiling in the correct-time video, it seems to me she was playacting indeed. Yes, playacting and reenacting the plot of Dark Water as led by this exciting new guy she met. The black men's shorts that she was wearing, could it be last-minute 'costume' provided by him to her? As to whether the guy deliberately left her in the tank to die or panicked and fled after dumping her clothes in, we can only guess.

    To those sceptical, I'm just offering an alternative plausibility based on the facts, and I see this as equally plausible as the theory that she went into the water tank because of a psychotic episode.

    There are still lots of unanswered questions, especially relating to the anomalies in the elevator footage. So far, only the slowing down part and the time stamp blurring are explained. I still hope to find answers to the rest, especially why her face was pixelated the moment her full face was tilted towards the camera, and why it was necessary to show yet edit that one and a half minute of extra footage after she had already left the scene.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
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  7. glamourkitty1922

    glamourkitty1922 Well-Known Member

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    She doesn't have to tread water. I've floated on my back for quite some time. It's quite soothing. She was found face up after all. It was warm during the day, but it got fairly cold that night. Floating in 60 degree water for a few hours would result in hypothermia.
     
  8. Qrious

    Qrious Active Member

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    Ok, that's possible then to have caused her to remove her clothes in the tank. It would be good too to have answers to the other strange anomalies still hanging over case. Otherwise, I feel that the video footage is not fully reliable to conclusively say that she was a having a mental episode that led her to go to the tank by herself.

    As it stands, I don't think we can rule out the possibility of a sinister prank by someone, with or without a collaborator, who then provided a false alibi to police.
     
  9. claudicici

    claudicici Well-Known Member

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    I definitely think the "dark water" connection is more than coincidence She was definitely reenacting the movie I don't think anyone else was involved though
     
  10. Qrious

    Qrious Active Member

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    I thought of this possibility too. If EL was reenacting the movie out of her own mind, then she must have watched it and liked it quite a bit. But nothing in her blog posts ever mentioned anything about movies, which would be unlikely if she was a fan given that she talked almost everything else about herself. So I'm inclined to think she knew nothing about the movie at all, and that she was reenacting the movie under the request of some guy she was fascinated with. To me, the clue is the oversized men's pants that she was wearing in lieu of the black skirt worn by the movie character. She was made to dress like the movie character.

    Another clue is she made the mistake of looking towards the elevator camera. It is precisely when her full face was facing the camera that her face and mouth were furiously distorted. I don't think this is any video conversion artefact as it is not random but fixed to her face and mouth only.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
  11. Qrious

    Qrious Active Member

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    - deleted due to repetition -
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
  12. Qrious

    Qrious Active Member

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    The cause of death was classified as drowning not hypothermia. Removing of one's clothing only happens in the last and fatal stage of hypothermia. So @Texashorn is still correct in saying she could not have removed her clothes under fatal hypothermia while drowning.
     
  13. Justiceforall67

    Justiceforall67 New Member

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    I recently watched the Netflix documentary and IMO when she was in the elevator and looking out, walking in and out, pushing all of the buttons, etc... it appeared to me to be OCD. The counting, the certain steps she took, etc...
     
  14. Justiceforall67

    Justiceforall67 New Member

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    I recently watched the Netflix documentary and IMO when she was in the elevator and looking out, walking in and out, pushing all of the buttons, counting, taking certain steps, etc... it looked like OCD. What the documentary showed was definitely very bizarre, but I don't see how she could have known about the water towers, let alone climb the ladder, lift the lid and get in it. It also seems if she was having a manic episode somebody would have seen or heard something. I still have to read more details, but thought I would give my first impression.
     
  15. Mergy13

    Mergy13 New Member

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    I have just watched the Netflix special on this case and one thing struck me. She had stopped taking, or seriously reduced, many of the medications she was on. One of those medications was vanlafaxine, also known as effexor, which I also take. This anti depressant has some serious side effects if you miss doses or stop taking it suddenly. When I tried it I became teary and borderline suicidal. I also felt like I was watching myself from outside of my body. Watching the video footage of Elisa in the elevator it looked like she was "on something" according to law enforcement. That could be true, but it could also be true that she was suffering from some severe withdrawal effects. I think its highly possible that she went to the roof and took her own life. She may not have planned it, it might have been a last moment decision. But in the absence of any serious evidence of fowl play and the clear evidence that her behavior was erratic I think its highly likely that her death was either suicide or an accident when she couldnt get back out of the water tank.

    How did the lid get closed? Well as also reported that roof was regularly frequented by other guests at the hotel. Its possible that another guest saw it open and just closed it without looking in. Its also possible that someone saw the clothes and the open lid and upon seeing the body threw the clothes in so as not to implicate themselves. We know that the hotel was frequented by unsavory types who would have reasons not to want to get involved with law enforcement.
     
  16. mikt71

    mikt71 Moon wolf

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    One of the theories is that Elisa discovered drug trafficking. They left the key in the lock and she opened the door and saw what they were doing. Do you think this really occurred?
     
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  17. mikt71

    mikt71 Moon wolf

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    Is there any truth to the possibility that Elisa witnessed drug trafficking because she unlocked a door to a room that a Mexican cartel was doing business in?
     
  18. Starscope

    Starscope New Member

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    Anything is possible at the Cecil Hotel. But in this case retaliation seems unlikely as there were no findings of foul play on the Coroner's report.
     
  19. Freezeguy

    Freezeguy New Member

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    I believe she went up on the roof with new friends and someone that peeked her interest. Clearly she was 'unstable' -- to say the least. I also suspect that the lady in the documentary was somehow involved. The death may or may not have been accidental. After it happened panic set in for the others that had been up there and I believe one of them had a family member (father perhaps) in law enforcement they got 'help' from them. This is all just speculation.
     
  20. mmccrraazy69

    mmccrraazy69 New Member

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    I've been thinking about this for years ... I was a drug addict for over 20 years & I've seen women act just like that blasted on crack ... Peeking around corners bugging out ...
     

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