This thread is for posters that believe Calee is still alive #5

[reefshadow]

Good info! I have a quick question about this last part mostly because of my lack of experience with custody/adoption rights. Would the grandparents be able to contest a parent's decision? Wouldn't they have had to have custody in order for the adoption to be challenged/overturned?

Perhaps the thinking is that because CA and GA basically provided for Caylee that it might carry weight since it's pretty much been established the KC can not provide for her daughter? Just thinking out loud.

I have thought about the adoption theory and rejected it myself.

To answer your question, that very situation has arisen. The M family who have adopted at least 20 children had an adoption challenged by the grandparents and the court ruled in the M's favor, stating that the mother's wishes trump the grandparents. It was a pretty famous and groundbreaking ruling and has set the standard for *most* situations of this sort.

A short blurb mentioning the court case is in this article:

http://www.five.tv/programmes/extraordinarypeople/family/

If KC had really just given her up for adoption she would have said "Too bad, I'm a spiteful b!tch and a bad mother and Caylee is gone, hahaha.

 

[wedavis]

did anyone see there were calls from carolina on jesse's phone?
sorry if already posted

Speaking of which. Is anyone on this thread familiar with Renea's sighting in GA?

Does her story fit in with TTT's?

 

[momtective]

I have thought about the adoption theory and rejected it myself.

To answer your question, that very situation has arisen. The M family who have adopted at least 20 children had an adoption challenged by the grandparents and the court ruled in the M's favor, stating that the mother's wishes trump the grandparents. It was a pretty famous and groundbreaking ruling and has set the standard for *most* situations of this sort.

A short blurb mentioning the court case is in this article:

http://www.five.tv/programmes/extraordinarypeople/family/

If KC had really just given her up for adoption she would have said "Too bad, I'm a spiteful b!tch and a bad mother and Caylee is gone, hahaha.

I see your point but I think that case was a little different...considering the best interest of the child. Also, if the grandparents had not been the primary care givers of the child they would have virtually no standing before the court.

And as for KC just saying "Too bad, I'm a spiteful b!tch and a bad mother and Caylee is gone, hahaha." I pretty much think that's exactly what she has said, just not in so many words...but her attitude and actions speak volumes.

 

[pb6656]

I haven't read the Caylee Alive threads for several days. I see Casey giving her up for adoption is a theory being discussed now.

We adopted our daughter as an infant. It was a private adoption. We had to pay our attorney's expenses, as well as the birth mother's attony's expenses and a third attorney's expenses to act in the best interests of the child.

Some of these laws may vary by state but, we also had to pay for ads that were to be placed in two widely read publications local to the area. These ads were to "Unknown Fathers" and were to serve as notice to step forward should they want legal rights to the child in question. By not stepping forward, they were in effect, severing their paternal rights.

I would think since Casey has always basically kept the child's father a secret - that similar ads would have to be placed. The notices are to keep potential father's stepping up in the future, claiming they did not know and then wanting to exercise paternal rights. Not something an adopter wants to go through and not good for a child to go through as they get older.

Since this is a slight possibilty, is there anyway to check the public notices in the local newspapers for maybe a couple monnths prior to Caylee's disappearance?

 

[Evan's Mom]

Speaking of which. Is anyone on this thread familiar with Renea's sighting in GA?

Does her story fit in with TTT's?

I guess one could make it fit.
TTT took a connecting flight out of Atlanta and the lady she spoke with in Orlando said she was taking a connecting flight to North Carolina, but didn't see her after the plane landed(I think). North Carolina isn't that far of a drive from Atlanta, just a few hours. Maybe she drove from Atlanta to North Carolina or flew to North Carolina and someone drove Caylee back to Ga to throw someone off. It's not pratical, but crazier things have happened.

 

[momtective]

I haven't read the Caylee Alive threads for several days. I see Casey giving her up for adoption is a theory being discussed now.

We adopted our daughter as an infant. It was a private adoption. We had to pay our attorney's expenses, as well as the birth mother's attony's expenses and a third attorney's expenses to act in the best interests of the child.

Some of these laws may vary by state but, we also had to pay for ads that were to be placed in two widely read publications local to the area. These ads were to "Unknown Fathers" and were to serve as notice to step forward should they want legal rights to the child in question. By not stepping forward, they were in effect, severing their paternal rights.

I would think since Casey has always basically kept the child's father a secret - that similar ads would have to be placed. The notices are to keep potential father's stepping up in the future, claiming they did not know and then wanting to exercise paternal rights. Not something an adopter wants to go through and not good for a child to go through as they get older.

Since this is a slight possibilty, is there anyway to check the public notices in the local newspapers for maybe a couple monnths prior to Caylee's disappearance?

I was thinking the same thing because when we adopted our first in 89 that was the routine but it only had to be printed 6 times and it was very vague and placed in the legals section of the county seat newspaper. Not like guys really read that section...ya think.

 

[whiteangora]

I guess one could make it fit.
TTT took a connecting flight out of Atlanta and the lady she spoke with in Orlando said she was taking a connecting flight to North Carolina, but didn't see her after the plane landed(I think). North Carolina isn't that far of a drive from Atlanta, just a few hours. Maybe she drove from Atlanta to North Carolina or flew to North Carolina and someone drove Caylee back to Ga to throw someone off. It's not pratical, but crazier things have happened.

If you go to page one of this thread, it's mentioned that the TTT conversation is not supposed to be continued, at least that's the way I
read it.
ETA It's post #9

 

[harleysnana]

That's really the only thing I have problems with.

I'm sorry but I don't always trust LE.
I think that they may have "leaked" the trunk info out in hopes that Casey
would feel pressured and take the immunity deal and would lead them to the body.

I watched the Salt Lake Police try this tactic with Richard Ricci
in the Elizabeth Smart case.
They had him tried and convicted with these "leaks" and we
know how that case turned out!

No matter what people say... LE lie to get confessions!
It happens all the time!

IMO NOTHING is evidence until it is submitted in court!

 

[momtective]

I'm sorry but I don't always trust LE.
I think that they may have "leaked" the trunk info out in hopes that Casey
would feel pressured and take the immunity deal and would lead them to the body.

I watched the Salt Lake Police try this tactic with Richard Ricci
in the Elizabeth Smart case.
They had him tried and convicted with these "leaks" and we
know how that case turned out!

No matter what people say... LE lie to get confessions!
It happens all the time!

IMO NOTHING is evidence until it is submitted in court!

I so agree! But LA in his statement said "the small filled the garage!"

 

[BreatheLife21]

I have thought this over for a while and looked at the evidence that we do know of. I think if you look at what the smell of decomposing human remains is. Is a certain combination of bacteria that is only found in humans feeding on non living tissue. The gases given off from this certain combination of bacteria is unique to humans and cadaver dogs can be trained to detect it. Most of these bacteria are located in the intestines living in water actually helping to digest food. Some of this water containing bacteria is released during the initial stages of death but also can be released during diarrhea. Maybe this beautiful little girl had a bout of diarrhea and left some of it in the back yard maybe while swimming in the pool. Would cadaver dogs hit on it? Also could there have been a diarrhea soaked diaper in the back of the car in the bag of trash with pizza and who knows what was in there. Could the flies have carried these bacteria to the hair causing the brown ring? As for Chloroform since it was never officially released by OCSD may have been read from a report from the body farm then leaked to the media. Being that they were the ones using the chloroform before they sent the air sample

 

[pb6656]

I was thinking the same thing because when we adopted our first in 89 that was the routine but it only had to be printed 6 times and it was very vague and placed in the legals section of the county seat newspaper. Not like guys really read that section...ya think.

Probably not most guys. Our baby was born late 91 and it would have been mid-year 92 that it went final. The notices are a mere legality. I didn't believe anybody would step forward in our case as I knew the birth mother was a very young girl and likely the birth father was very young as well.

But I still wonder, in the case of Caylee, if a search of the Public Notices is possible because I think this or something like it would have to be done unless the actuall father was present to sign away legal rights.

 

[harleysnana]

I so agree! But LA in his statement said "the small filled the garage!"

I'm not saying the trunk didn't stink... I'm just saying LE could have
lied about it being from a dead body.
The smell could be something simple and still IMO fill the garage!

 

[lin]

I have 7 adopted children and I can assure you everything is locked up tighter than Fort Knox as far as the government or courts are concerned.

Not questioning your experience, just posting a different circumstance. My friend's adopted child got into some trouble about 2 years ago. She was absolutely livid when not only the original first and last names were listed underneath the child's legal name as an aka, but also birth parent name. This happened in Florida. I tend to agree with the other poster. DCF can get anything on any child here, it seems. Maybe not LE, but DCF for sure and they don't seem to have any qualms about turning that info over to LE.

 

[momtective]

I found a link to a public notice publication in Orlando but no search feature so I can't go back to June/July time frame.
http://www.orlandoweekly.com/classifieds/default.asp?id=110

But this is what a notice looks like for those of you who are interested.

 

[looking4clues]

Ok, I've posted this on both threads that were closed and it really didn't get much attention...but I think it is worth considering...I have wondered if maybe Casey placed Caylee for adoption. If she did a private adoption then the laws regarding adoption in both Florida and NC would prevent ANYONE from coming forward. I’ve googled and found that the statute of limitations to challenge adoption in Florida is 1 yr…in NC it’s 9 months. With both states having a 90 day residency requirement for the person/s adopting. Casey could have placed Caylee through a private agency or an adoption facilitator.
If the woman TTT saw with Caylee was a facilitator or worked for the adoption agency she would have had all the necessary paperwork to transport the child and would not have been the least bit concerned about being identified or that Caylee was social with people on the flight or in the Airport.

I don't think the adoptive parents would come forward because the adoption could be challenged and overturned. Casey would know what the time limits are and would keep her mouth shut until all was safe and there would be no way for CA & GA to contest the adoption.

You know, that makes a whole lot of sense to me. Coming from a family with a few adoptions, it is something that crossed my mind. By law, could the agency tell LE that Casey placed her? I'm wondering about privacy issues. Something to research, I guess. If CASEY would have to be the one to tell LE that she put Caylee up for adoption, then she just wouldn't do it. She knew Cindy was going to go for custody and I think she decided that she wasn't going to allow that. I do like the adoption theory because from all we've heard about Caylee, she is an adorable child and I would imagine the adoptive parents would fall in love with her immediately. Then they wouldn't want to give her back.

 

[momtective]

Not questioning your experience, just posting a different circumstance. My friend's adopted child got into some trouble about 2 years ago. She was absolutely livid when not only the original first and last names were listed underneath the child's legal name as an aka, but also birth parent name. This happened in Florida. I tend to agree with the other poster. DCF can get anything on any child here, it seems. Maybe not LE, but DCF for sure and they don't seem to have any qualms about turning that info over to LE.

I can see that happening especially if the child was adopted through the foster care system but with a private adoption I think it would be less likely...but anything is possible. I just think this theory explains well both JB & KC's calm demeanor.

For me I just have a hard time wrapping my brain around the possibility that KC killed that little girl. I think she is indeed a "spiteful little b!tch" for sure and I think she hates her mother but I just don't think she killed Caylee.

 

[trina133]

You know, that makes a whole lot of sense to me. Coming from a family with a few adoptions, it is something that crossed my mind. By law, could the agency tell LE that Casey placed her? I'm wondering about privacy issues. Something to research, I guess. If CASEY would have to be the one to tell LE that she put Caylee up for adoption, then she just wouldn't do it. She knew Cindy was going to go for custody and I think she decided that she wasn't going to allow that. I do like the adoption theory because from all we've heard about Caylee, she is an adorable child and I would imagine the adoptive parents would fall in love with her immediately. Then they wouldn't want to give her back.

When we adopted the people in the courthouse told me to get 3 or 4 copies of the decree beacuse I would need them later and it would take "an act of congress" to get them once she sealed them. Also, we didn't have an agency or a facilitator. The girl we adopted from came into the shop I was working in, she was pretty far along, told us she wanted to put the baby up but that she didn't have a family, or an agency . I told her my husband and I were looking to adopt and a week later we were meeting her parents, a week after that we were at the lawyers office. About 4 weeks after that we had a baby. The lawyer only charged us a retainer as it was his first adoption case. Three months later we were in court making it final. Its an open adoption, so we do have contact with the birthmom, she comes to the house a couple times a year and so do her parents, who did not want her to give the baby up, but the decision was ultimately hers.

I know, probably more information than needed to be put up here, but my point was how hard it might be to get adoption records. Even with both parents consent.


ETA: Another thought would be to check to see if her name had been changed on her SS#.....after an adoption is finalized.

 

[momtective]

Thinking out loud here...if KC did indeed place Caylee for adoption, absolutely anyone (male) could have signed those adoption papers LA, TL, JG...there were many to choose from...or she could have told them what she's told everyone else "Daddy's deceased." I don't think anything would have to be published if "Daddy is deceased."
This theory would also explain all the partying and deleting pictures and such...bury the pain...make it go away...she's fine, she's happy, she's better off etc. Stay busy, busy, busy and just don't think about it.

 

[Straitfan]

If, a really big if Casey did place her for adoption, the State as well as the FBI would be able to obtain knowledge of "such" a thing.. Though adoption records may be sealed they would NOT be sealed in this kind of circumstance and lawyer's/court/fbi/detective's could easily get the info. So "who's stench may have been in the car since anyone who has ever smelled that type of thing would/does know the smell?

 

[momtective]

If, a really big if Casey did place her for adoption, the State as well as the FBI would be able to obtain knowledge of "such" a thing.. Though adoption records may be sealed they would NOT be sealed in this kind of circumstance and lawyer's/court/fbi/detective's could easily get the info. So "who's stench may have been in the car since anyone who has ever smelled that type of thing would/does know the smell?

yep, yep. yep...it's that stinkin' car I can't get past..as I mentioned in an above post...