Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #2

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Another point (probably ridiculous I know), but was wondering if there were plants onboard would it suck up the carbon dioxide and replace it with enough oxygen, unfortunately, per this article, (and a few others) you would some 400 plants, (another article said per person) and that’s if they have enough light. Don’t think the Camping World lights are enough.

How many plants are needed in an airtight room to be able to breathe? | BBC Science Focus Magazine

You'll want some leafy friends locked in with you not only provide oxygen but to also remove carbon dioxide. Problem is you'll also need a pretty big room.
www.sciencefocus.com
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imstilla.grandma said:
The heartrending search to locate and rescue the Titan submersible before it runs out of its four-day air supply will be the focus of a new fast-turnaround documentary on U.K. broadcaster Channel 5.

“Titanic Sub: Lost at Sea” has been scheduled to air on Thursday at 7 p.m. local time. The doc will be presented by 5 News host Dan Walker.

The ITN-produced documentary promises to “go beyond” news coverage and bring viewers up to date, while examining the wider context about the voyage, its passengers and the fascination with the Titanic shipwreck. The film will also talk to experts and look at the rise of extreme tourism.

Ian Rumsey, managing director of content for ITN, said: “This program will chart everything from the exploration itself, to the rise of extreme tourism, to the rescue attempts, but above all it will tell a very human story that has captured the nation which is about 5 people, all with families, who are trapped at the bottom of the ocean. Our expertise and heritage in fast-turnaround documentaries and reputation for responsible filmmaking means we always treat such stories with great sensitivity.”
variety.com

‘Titanic Sub: Lost at Sea’ Documentary to Air on Channel 5, Set to Explore Wider Context About Voyage and Extreme Tourism

U.K. broadcaster Channel 5 has ordered fast-turnaround documentary 'Titanic Sub: Lost at Sea,' which will air on Thursday.
variety.com variety.com
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Personally I find this horrible. The poor families by Thursday night having run out of hope and this documentary is on TV? I think it’s heartless in such a terrible time.
JMO
 
acutename said:
wonder what ths means.... if they had a distress signal, wouldn't they have coordinates? So is this something new or just a bad news report that is confusing? All the other sources say "no info from the vessel since Sunday after 1hr and 45 mins...."
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Apparently, the pings can only be discerned by the mother ship when the Titan is directly below - so if they got that ping, then they would have had that last coordinate (couldn't be all that different from the one 15 minutes before).

I assume that's the ping they're using as the "last known position" of the Titan.

And, I believe that had the Titan deployed its automatic jettison system (if that system really exists), the Titan would surface not too far from where it went down (but..."not too far" nautically could still be hard to pinpoint).

I wish Rush had painted all the Titans a more detectable color.

IMO.
 
Wow, the preponderance of stories about this company’s submersible being janky seem to greatly outweigh the very few successful Titanic sightings. Was there only one, or were there any other successful trips?

I grasp that exceedingly rich people who have earned their money honestly have the right to splurge as they see fit. I wonder if any of them studied the previous outcomes thoroughly. Maybe they did and were still enthralled by the idea. Maybe some had second thoughts and were swept along by adrenaline or by the excitement of the others.


They did all sign the waivers. IMO since the owner is on board, I imagine at least he felt secure in his design.
 
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PrairieWind said:
Cell phones dont work underwater. Radio waves don't penetrate water except at extreme low frequency and even that wont at this depth. Undersate communication is by acoustics not radio waves mostly, and that is very limited.
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I just wrote a message (offline) in reply to that same issue. You've covered it concisely; I'll go ahead and paste in my own version, which is longer and not as clear. :) Thanks! --ken
-----------------------------------------------
Just for the record, there isn't any cellphone service 12K feet down, there no cellphone towers, and at a guess, cellphone RF couldn't travel any farther underwater than you could throw the phone. (All of this message is my own opinion based on 55 years of using radio, from longwaves to UHF, as a hobbyist.)

From what I've read, they're using a sonar system, which will work underwater, and they appear to be modulating audio to send text-based messages that way. If you are old enough to remember the 300-baud modems of the early days of computing, with a handset from your phone stuck into an "audio coupler" (a microphone by the phone's earpiece, and a speaker at the phone's mouthpiece), that's the same sort of thing. Military, commercial, and hobby radio users still use systems like that (modulated audio via radio, not sonar) to send radioteletype and fax messages.

I agree, it sounds like a crude communication system, but regular radio waves just don't work underwater--that's why until a fairly modern era, US submarines had to surface to send and receive radio messages. You can work various orbiting manned and unmanned space vehicles with a ham-radio license from the FCC and some fairly simple gear, all the way up in space! But underwater is tough.

So if you've GOT to jury-rig a communications system between a surface vessel and a submersible, there aren't any good options I'm aware of. I'm guessing the "ocean gate" people came up with the best solution they could design, afford, and implement at whatever budget and time limits they had. My opinion is that most of their submersible's design seems to have been like that.

I am still *astonished* at the reports that there was no ongoing monitoring of hull strength and stresses. That seems hard to believe. But that's another issue. 73 de AC4RD, Ken. Edited to change the font of the pasted part, for clarity.
 
Re: Morse Code

What I want to know is how one could do dots and dashes by banging on titanium or other metal in the sub.

I can only manage to make banging sounds on metal that have longer intervals (the dash?)

Are any of you more coordinated than I am?
 
10ofRods said:
Re: Morse Code

What I want to know is how one could do dots and dashes by banging on titanium or other metal in the sub.

I can only manage to make banging sounds on metal that have longer intervals (the dash?)

Are any of you more coordinated than I am?
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If it were me and I was trying to make it sound more like SOS in morse code, I'd try three quick knocks followed by three spaced out ones, then three quick ones again.
 
JennieM said:

Titanic submersible: documents reveal multiple concerns raised over safety of vessel​

Exclusive: OceanGate founder told Guardian his sub was designed to get ‘very close’ to wreck, after industry leaders urged firm to have it assessed

[...]

While it is too early to say what happened to the vessel, experts have raised questions over whether all appropriate safety measures were followed.

[...]

On Tuesday, the New York Times published a letter written in 2018 by industry leaders in the submersible vessel field, warning Rush of possible “catastrophic” problems with Titan’s development.

The Marine Technology Society, an industry group made up of ocean engineers, technologists, policymakers and educators, expressed “concern regarding the development of Titan and the planned Titanic expeditions” and warned against the “current experimental approach adopted by OceanGate”.

At issue was whether the Titan vessel would be independently assessed by industry regulators or risk assessors.

The Marine Technology Society was critical of OceanGate issuing marketing material that stated the Titan design would “meet or exceed the DNV-GL safety standards” while apparently not intending to have the vessel assessed by that same organisation.

The DNV is an independent organisation, described as the world’s leading classification society for the maritime industry, which certifies vessels such as submersibles and issues regulations for such products.

In the case of vessels such as Titan, the DNV classification process examines whether “internationally recognised rules” were followed and includes inspections during the constructions and operations phase.

In its letter, the Marine Technology Society wrote: “We recommend that at a minimum, you institute a prototype testing program that is reviewed and witnessed by DNV-GL.”

A spokesperson for OceanGate declined to comment on the 2018 letter when approached by the New York Times.

[...]


OceanGate was also concerned that the classing process could slow down development and act as a drag on innovation. “Bringing an outside entity up to speed on every innovation before it is put into real-world testing is anathema to rapid innovation,” it said.

In an interview with the Smithsonian magazine in 2019, Rush complained that the commercial sub industry had not “innovated or grown – because they have all these regulations”.

It is not clear whether the Titan has received industry certification since the blogpost was published, but in 2022 a CBS News reporter who was due to travel on the vessel reported that the waiver he signed read: “This experimental vessel has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body.”

In defending its decision not to have the Titan classed, the company highlighted what it said were safety innovations onboard, including “carbon fiber pressure vessels and a real-time (RTM) hull health monitoring system”.

The ability of the sub’s hull design to withstand such depths was questioned in a 2018 lawsuit filed by OceanGate’s former director of marine operations David Lochridge, who said he was fired after he raised safety concerns about the vessel.

OceanGate said in its breach of contract suit against Lochridge, who is not an engineer, that he refused to accept the lead engineer’s assurances and accused him of improperly sharing confidential information. The two sides settled their court case in November 2018.

The company did not respond to requests for comment from the Reuters news agency, and its attorney in the Lochridge case, Thomas Gilman, declined comment.

OceanGate said it was “mobilising all options” in the search, and the US Coast Guard Rear Adm John Mauger told NBC News the company was helping to guide the search efforts.

“They know that site better than anybody else,” Mauger said. “We’re working very closely with them to prioritise our underwater search efforts and get equipment there.”

Reuters contributed to this report

www.theguardian.com

Titanic submersible: documents reveal multiple concerns raised over safety of vessel

A 2018 letter from industry leaders urged OceanGate to have its Titan sub classed by an independent agency
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Wow! If this is all correct, it is just appalling. Where passengers aware of this? Sign waivers? It really doesn't matter. OceanGate is done.
 
Arkay said:
Wow, the preponderance of stories about this company’s submersible being janky seem to greatly outweigh the very few successful Titanic sightings. Was there only one, or were there more successful trips?

I grasp that exceedingly rich people who have earned their money honestly have the right to splurge as they see fit. I wonder if any of them studied the previous outcomes thoroughly. Maybe they did and were still enthralled by the idea. Maybe some had second thoughts and were swept along by adrenaline or by the excitement of the others.


They did all sign the waivers. IMO since the owner is on board, I imagine at least he felt secure in his design.
Click to expand...
Agreed. At least a couple of them were daredevil explorers (Hardin, Nargeolet aka Mr.Titanic), while rich but not daredevil-like was the Father and Son. I think the thrill of doing something (bragging rights so to speak) and the CEO Rush himself might have left them all feeling safer. Why would Rush jeopardize himself, so it must be safe?
 
Shadowtrix said:
If it were me and I was trying to make it sound more like SOS in morse code, I'd try three quick knocks followed by three spaced out ones, then three quick ones again.
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I was thinking something along those lines as well. And if I heard that type of banging, I'm pretty sure I could deduce it was S-O-S. Even 2 quick knocks, then 2 more spaced out ones?

Of course, mere banging should be enough to draw attention, as it has done (although I believe I read that such banging needed to be near the surface to be picked up by those sound-detecting buoys they're using).

That's why I keep worry that they have surfaced (somewhere) and are having a hard time getting attention from the Polar Prince or anyone else.

Trying to stay optimistic.
 
I don't think that they would ever confirm whether those sounds were identified as morse code, or even a definite pattern so as to only possibly be man made, not unless they find them, which I think most of us believe isn't going to happen.
Imagine the outrage, even though its almost impossible to find them in time, if they admitted it was definitely them but they couldn't save them.
We, the public, are fickle creatures and many would lose all reason and common sense, and blame the recovery teams for failing and letting them die, conveniently ignoring what an impossible task this is.
Not all of us, but enough. JMO.
 
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JennieM said:

What we learned about the banging noises​

The press conference largely focused on the mysterious 'banging' noises. This is what we know about these noises:
  • The first noises were heard by a Canadian P-3 aircraft yesterday
  • Following these noises, Coast Guard moved search teams to investigate
  • They are searching the area where the noises were detected
  • More noises were heard today as well
  • Unfortunately, the ocean is a noisy place and it remains unclear what the noises are exactly
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Maybe it's Amelia Earhart, banging on the side of her Electra in the lagoon at Gardner Island. ;-)

Seriously, the link is that ater Earhart's plane disappeared, people all over the world were listening eagerly, and lots of people reported hearing voices, morse code, rough unmodulated carriers. Just MHO but NONE of the post-crash transmissions actually represented the Two Stranded Castaways Not There On Gardner Isle. Certainly, none were confirmed.

But people DID hear things. And the submersible searchers hear things, too. My own guess is that at that 1:45 timepoint when the ship lost contact with the sub, it was already over for the sub's passengers. "Banging noises" is the descriptiion I've heard over and over; nobody official AFAIK has said "appears to be a signal" or "might be man-made"--people WANT to hear the sub and they're reporting anything that might be positive, I do believe.
 
PrairieWind said:
Wow! If this is all correct, it is just appalling. Where passengers aware of this? Sign waivers? It really doesn't matter. OceanGate is done.
Click to expand...

They had to sign a waiver that mentioned "death" three times on the first page, and it was a fairly long waiver.

I just don't think that any of the passengers were truly aware of the mishaps in the past or the controversial build of the Titan. A non-expert isn't going to know what to ask. After reading here on WS, I know I'd like to have a tracking device that worked like those that they use on sharks' fins!

The whole thing was treated more like it was a dangerous carnival ride, IMO.
 
We have an old military oscilloscope. We have it hooked up to through our sound system. When the music is going, it has that thing jumping all over the place in waves. It’s really cool cause it’s a great fluorescent color. Put a black light on, sit back and chill. A holdover from our tripping days in the early 70’s.
1687380992028.png
 
Would it really matter if anyone in the submersible knew or was banging in Morse code? The point would be to make banging sounds that are unmistakably man-made. Banging SOS in Morse code would obviously do it.... banging to the rhythm of any universally known/popular song would probably do the trick too, yes?
 
10ofRods said:
... sending the messages was, according to this article, text messages. Is there something else that sends texts besides cellular service?
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(respectfully snipped for focus) Yes: other messages of sending text messagaes can be seen in old Western movies: the telegraph. Same RESULT (text sent over a distance by modulating a signal) but different technology.

See, there ARE no celllphones that deep and no cell towers. They're sending text messages, just NOT the ones you send by cellphone. They're modulating audio beamed between the two vessels. These are still "text messages," just not via cellphone. Oh, and considerably slower, vastly slower, because of the very restricted bandwidth available over audio between stations on either end two miles of seawater. We ham-radio nuts do "text messages" this way using radioteletype (RTTY) via shortwave radio, and the goverment and military still keep shortwave RTTY links for emergencies. 73! Ken AC4RD
 
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