Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #4

[BeachSky]

Is it possible to watch the documentary in the UK?

You can watch it @ this link..if you can endure tons of commercials.

Fatal Dive To The Titanic: Truth And Lies - ABC.com

Watch Fatal Dive To The Titanic: Truth And Lies on ABC.

abc.com

 

[StillDiggin]

New audio reveals 'banging sound' coming from missing Titan sub

The audio was picked up by a search aircraft.

metro.co.uk

 

[Cool Cats]

New audio reveals 'banging sound' coming from missing Titan sub

The audio was picked up by a search aircraft.

metro.co.uk

No one knows what the banging was, no one knows if it had anything to do with the Titan. The suggestion that the banging sounds may have been linked to survivors was wishful thinking.

“With respect to the noises specifically, we don’t know what they are, to be frank with you,” Captain Jamie Frederick of the First Coast Guard District told reporters.

Carl Hartsfield, an expert with the Wood Hole Oceanographic Institution, told CBS News there were many possible explanations for the sounds.

“The ocean is a very complex place, obviously — human sounds, nature sounds, and it’s very difficult to discern what the sources of those noises are."

The large number of vessels that were in the area would also emit noises picked up by sensors.

Jeff Karson, professor emeritus of earth and environmental sciences at Syracuse University said it could be a “complicated echo” coming from sounds bouncing around the Titanic debris field. “It’s just not bouncing off of one thing. It’s bouncing off a bunch of things."

Stefan Williams, a professor of marine robotics at the University of Sydney, told Insider the sounds may have been created by marine wildlife such as whales.

He said there had been reports of marooned submarine crews banging on the vessel’s hull to signal their location, and that “acoustic noise will travel”.

What was the banging noise picked up in search for Titanic sub?

Banging sounds coming from the Titan search zone briefly raised hopes, before the rising submersible was confirmed to have been destroyed in a ‘catastrophic implosion’.

www.independent.co.uk

 

[al66pine]

Shipwrecked Vessel RMS Titanic. Ownership Rights, etc.

It is important who did the Titanic Ventures gain the underlying salvage rights from? The company that owned Titanic eventually merged with another one. Theoretically speaking, the ownership of Titanic was British/US (talk transnational corporations, ultimately, JP Morgan owned Titanic).
So, essentially, are the remains British/US/both?
If the Titanic sank at international waters, is it no one's?
Does Titanic Historical Society have a say?
Do the descendants of the Titanic victims have any rights?
If Nargeolet personally sold artifacts, I won't be surprised nor shocked as he was merely following in the footsteps of many others. This is commonplace in archeology. (You can buy a Greek vase online, you just have to buy from a list of certified buyers. But how are these artifacts sourced out? Check Ebay, anything ancient. Many of these items are real. Where do they come from, though?)
The museums have the right to sell parts of their collections, too. To buy something else.
I would like to know given that Reagan had signed the act proclaiming the Titanic to
be a memorial, how did Titanic Ventures gained the rights? Surely not from Reagan. From whom?
This is a little bit concerning, legally. At least three huge businessmen perished on the Titanic. (One of NYC best museums bears the name of one of them.)
Another one chose to die to save some unknown women and children.
Now, who had the right to forward the right to Titanic Ventures? I bet not their descendants.
I don't mind rich people buying antiquities provided they make museums open to public. Think Getty's museum and Villa.
But this story is...something else?

@Charlot123 Good questions in your June 2023 post which I just happened across.

FWIW, if some are still unanswered you might check these articles.
A preliminary step. (38 yrs ago. )
The 1986 bill Pres. Reagan signed, S. 2048, the R.M.S. Titanic Maritime Memorial Act of 1986 was "to encourage international negotiations to: (1) designate the R.M.S. Titanic as an international maritime memorial and (2) develop and implement guidelines for conducting research on, exploration of, and if appropriate, salvage of the R.M.S. Titanic."

Statement on Signing the R.M.S. Titanic Maritime Memorial Act of 1986

Statement on Signing the R.M.S. Titanic Maritime Memorial Act of 1986

www.reaganlibrary.gov

And in 2019 an update on US ratification:
"The Agreement Concerning the Shipwrecked Vessel RMS Titanic is a treaty open to all states regarding the protection of the shipwreck of the RMS Titanic. Following the passage of the RMS Titanic Maritime Memorial Act in 1986, the United States began negotiations in 1997 with the United Kingdom, France, and Canada toward an agreement to protect the wreck. The agreement was signed by the UK in 2003 and by the US in 2004. It was not until 2019 that the US ratified the agreement, it into effect on 18 November, the day of deposit of the instrument of ratification."

Agreement Concerning the Shipwrecked Vessel RMS Titanic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wiki's footnotes lead us to more detail from official US agency sources.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

No one knows what the banging was, no one knows if it had anything to do with the Titan. The suggestion that the banging sounds may have been linked to survivors was wishful thinking.

“With respect to the noises specifically, we don’t know what they are, to be frank with you,” Captain Jamie Frederick of the First Coast Guard District told reporters.

Carl Hartsfield, an expert with the Wood Hole Oceanographic Institution, told CBS News there were many possible explanations for the sounds.

“The ocean is a very complex place, obviously — human sounds, nature sounds, and it’s very difficult to discern what the sources of those noises are."

The large number of vessels that were in the area would also emit noises picked up by sensors.

Jeff Karson, professor emeritus of earth and environmental sciences at Syracuse University said it could be a “complicated echo” coming from sounds bouncing around the Titanic debris field. “It’s just not bouncing off of one thing. It’s bouncing off a bunch of things."

Stefan Williams, a professor of marine robotics at the University of Sydney, told Insider the sounds may have been created by marine wildlife such as whales.

He said there had been reports of marooned submarine crews banging on the vessel’s hull to signal their location, and that “acoustic noise will travel”.

What was the banging noise picked up in search for Titanic sub?

Banging sounds coming from the Titan search zone briefly raised hopes, before the rising submersible was confirmed to have been destroyed in a ‘catastrophic implosion’.

www.independent.co.uk

Great information and yes, the very nature of the ocean and depths can be unforgiving, mysterious, and confounding.

Your post reminded me of several scenes from two very good submarine based moves: “The Hunt for Red October” (with Sean Connery, Sam Neill, Scott Glenn, Alec Baldwin and “U571 (with Matthew McConaughey, Bill Paxton, and Harvey Keitel). The former as I recall, has several scenes and themes about the ability (or inability) to try and elude while deep in the ocean and the monitor the use of sound and sonar, etc. to try and discern where the enemy might lie. Both are worth a watch IMO. MOO

 

[ch_13]

New audio reveals 'banging sound' coming from missing Titan sub

The audio was picked up by a search aircraft.

metro.co.uk

This is a very misleading headline. There's nothing new about this audio and it doesn't come from the Titan. The only new thing is that the sound file has been released.

Just a reminder of what happened:

The sub went missing on June 18th. Within two hours of being submerged communications were lost. Around the same time Navy listening posts picked up the sound of an implosion. Subsequent recovery of the sub pieces shows that the Titan underwent an explosive decompression and those on board would have been killed in milliseconds.

The banging was heard two days later on June 20 so the sounds couldn't have come from the Titan. (Unless you subscribe to one of the many conspiracy theories that the sub never exploded and it's all a big coverup by the U.S. and Canadian governments.)

 

[Countem]

OceanGate CEO Joked 'What Could Go Wrong' Before 'Titan' Sub Implosion, New Documentary Reveals

Comments OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush gave leading up to the Titan sub disaster that claimed his life and the lives of four others have resurfaced thanks to an upcoming documentary.

people.com

OceanGate CEO Joked 'What Could Go Wrong' Before 'Titan' Sub Implosion, New Documentary Reveals​

 

[iamshadow21]

OceanGate CEO Joked 'What Could Go Wrong' Before 'Titan' Sub Implosion, New Documentary Reveals

Comments OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush gave leading up to the Titan sub disaster that claimed his life and the lives of four others have resurfaced thanks to an upcoming documentary.

people.com

OceanGate CEO Joked 'What Could Go Wrong' Before 'Titan' Sub Implosion, New Documentary Reveals​

Three others, not four. Not a good start to the article if they don't get the number of victims right.

 

[LinasK]

No- four others- The Dawoods (2) father and son, PH Nargolet, and Hamish Harding.

 

[iamshadow21]

No- four others- The Dawoods (2) father and son, PH Nargolet, and Hamish Harding.

You're right, I'm overtired.

I think I had been counting Nargolet as 'crew' in my head and only counting the true guests.

 

[Countem]

‘Claustrophobic’ images reveal reality of what it was like in doomed Titan sub before implosion

There wasn't much space to move around inside the Titan sub

www.ladbible.com

 

[PrairieWind]

This is a very misleading headline. There's nothing new about this audio and it doesn't come from the Titan. The only new thing is that the sound file has been released.

Just a reminder of what happened:

The sub went missing on June 18th. Within two hours of being submerged communications were lost. Around the same time Navy listening posts picked up the sound of an implosion. Subsequent recovery of the sub pieces shows that the Titan underwent an explosive decompression and those on board would have been killed in milliseconds.

The banging was heard two days later on June 20 so the sounds couldn't have come from the Titan. (Unless you subscribe to one of the many conspiracy theories that the sub never exploded and it's all a big coverup by the U.S. and Canadian governments.)

I agree. It is interesting to hear the recording to know what it is that rescuers initially thought might be signs of life. But we now know that sound did not come from Titan. The ocean is full of strange and mysterious sounds.

 

[Countem]

Tragic Titan sub disaster ‘entirely preventable’: Cameron

Legendary director James Cameron has wowed a Perth audience with tales from his filmmaking and ocean exploration career as an exhibition opens in Fremantle.

thewest.com.au

When asked about the sub, Mr Cameron said the tragedy was “entirely preventable” and had put a stain on the work of the submersible community, which had a spotless safety record before the incident.

 

[somequestions]

Having and knowing all the circumstances surrounding an accident like the implosion of the Titan submersible is important. I am not defending Stockton Rush and his decision making, but it is important to remember that the Titan had made the journey safely down to the Titanic before. No matter how strange Stockton Rush may have seemed, I do not think someone wants to dive in a submersible if they think it was going to implode. If I did not research anything about the company Oceangate and the Titan submersible I would have thought when I saw this story in the news that it was just a tragic accident.

Recently I came across a video about the Challenger and Columbia space shuttle disasters and it completely changed my mind about both accidents. It is a great 20 minute video to watch all the way to the end. The main point of the video is how we perceive decision making. I knew the basic details about both shuttle disasters, even the structural problems, but I never knew how the decision making behind both accidents was so important.

Like Oceangate and the Titan submersible implosion it makes you question how decision-making affects accidents.

 

[LinasK]

Having and knowing all the circumstances surrounding an accident like the implosion of the Titan submersible is important. I am not defending Stockton Rush and his decision making, but it is important to remember that the Titan had made the journey safely down to the Titanic before. No matter how strange Stockton Rush may have seemed, I do not think someone wants to dive in a submersible if they think it was going to implode. If I did not research anything about the company Oceangate and the Titan submersible I would have thought when I saw this story in the news that it was just a tragic accident.

Recently I came across a video about the Challenger and Columbia space shuttle disasters and it completely changed my mind about both accidents. It is a great 20 minute video to watch all the way to the end. The main point of the video is how we perceive decision making. I knew the basic details about both shuttle disasters, even the structural problems, but I never knew how the decision making behind both accidents was so important.

Like Oceangate and the Titan submersible implosion it makes you question how decision-making affects accidents.

Yes, but previous dives were no indication of safety because each successive dive made the frame weaker.

 

[LinasK]

I feel like the Haywoods and PH and Hamish didn't do their due diligence in researching the safety of the Titan. That's exactly why Josh Gates decided not to go in it again, and also why the other father/son team(the Blooms IIRC?) backed out before the Haywoods joined. They and James Cameron all decided that it wasn't safe.

 

[ch_13]

It's not like Rush wasn't warned. His own employee, David Lochridge, tried to tell him that the sub needed extensive testing. But Rush responded by firing him and threatening him and his family to keep silent. (Apparently the hardball tactics worked because Lochridge clammed up after trying to file a whistleblower lawsuit, and hasn't spoken about OceanGate to this day.)

Pretty much every expert in marine submersibles also reached out to Rush to tell him that his approach was potentially catastrophic. Again, Rush didn't want to hear it and just blew off their concerns. I doubt he ever consulted any carbon fiber experts (or he ignored them after they didn't tell him what he wanted) because they would have certainly told him it's an unsuitable material for a pressure hull.

IMO, Stockton Rush wasn't just someone who made a bad decision or two. He completely eschewed good engineering practices. And because this is a very lightly regulated field he was able to get away with it, basically by lying and claiming his passengers were really 'mission specialists'.

 

[LinasK]

Having and knowing all the circumstances surrounding an accident like the implosion of the Titan submersible is important. I am not defending Stockton Rush and his decision making, but it is important to remember that the Titan had made the journey safely down to the Titanic before. No matter how strange Stockton Rush may have seemed, I do not think someone wants to dive in a submersible if they think it was going to implode. If I did not research anything about the company Oceangate and the Titan submersible I would have thought when I saw this story in the news that it was just a tragic accident.

Recently I came across a video about the Challenger and Columbia space shuttle disasters and it completely changed my mind about both accidents. It is a great 20 minute video to watch all the way to the end. The main point of the video is how we perceive decision making. I knew the basic details about both shuttle disasters, even the structural problems, but I never knew how the decision making behind both accidents was so important.

Like Oceangate and the Titan submersible implosion it makes you question how decision-making affects accidents.

Also, I'm not sure that this is your point, but it was very relevant to the Carbon Fiber- air pressure is a very different thing than water pressure.

 

[Cool Cats]

It's not like Rush wasn't warned. His own employee, David Lochridge, tried to tell him that the sub needed extensive testing. But Rush responded by firing him and threatening him and his family to keep silent. (Apparently the hardball tactics worked because Lochridge clammed up after trying to file a whistleblower lawsuit, and hasn't spoken about OceanGate to this day.)

Pretty much every expert in marine submersibles also reached out to Rush to tell him that his approach was potentially catastrophic. Again, Rush didn't want to hear it and just blew off their concerns. I doubt he ever consulted any carbon fiber experts (or he ignored them after they didn't tell him what he wanted) because they would have certainly told him it's an unsuitable material for a pressure hull.

IMO, Stockton Rush wasn't just someone who made a bad decision or two. He completely eschewed good engineering practices. And because this is a very lightly regulated field he was able to get away with it, basically by lying and claiming his passengers were really 'mission specialists'.

And by launching the Titan in waters that were not under US regulations.

2 Cents

 

[somequestions]

Yes, but previous dives were no indication of safety because each successive dive made the frame weaker.

Ok, but the space shuttle had been flown a few times before with erosion of the O-ring seals and it did not blow up like space shuttle Challenger. Engineers knew about the erosion of the O-ring seals and simply approved it instead of redesigning the joints. The space shuttle had shed foam before but never caused major damage to a wing. They had photographic evidence of a foam strike that may have caused damage to the left wing of space shuttle Columbia. About the Challenger, the NASA director said in the video, "We made a grievous error."

The other founder of Oceangate reminded everyone in the 60 Minutes Australia piece that the carbon fiber frame had been replaced on the Titan submersible and was not the same one as the one that was making noises on previous dives. Maybe there was something different about this particular dive that caused the Titan submersible to implode?

My point was only to look at it from the perspective of the people making the decisions, not that I agree with their decisions (or CEO Stockton Rush's decision to dive the Titan submersible).