Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023

[imstilla.grandma]

In his complaint, filed in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Washington, Lochridge alleged he had raised concerns about the safety of the Titan with OceanGate and advised the company to conduct more testing of the the vessel's hull. Lochridge said he had disagreed with his employer about the best way to test the safety of the sub and that he objected to OceanGate's decision to perform dives without "non-destructive testing to prove its integrity."

Non-destructive testing is a type of analysis used on materials to determine their integrity and reliability.

"The paying passengers would not be aware, and would not be informed, of this experimental design, the lack of non-destructive testing of the hull, or that hazardous flammable materials were being used within the submersible," Lochridge's legal filing stated.

The document added that Lochridge believed the company could "subject passengers to potential extreme danger in an experimental submersible."

Separately, a trade group in 2018 sent a letter to OceanGate expressing reservations about the sub's safety, according to The New York Times. The letter, from the Manned Underwater Vehicles committee of the Marine Technology Society, said the group was concerned that OceanGate's "experimental" approach could have potentially "catastrophic" outcomes that could impact their industry.

Titan submersible maker OceanGate faced safety lawsuit in 2018: "Potential danger to passengers"

Court documents show that the company fired an employee who raised concerns about the underwater vessel's design.

www.cbsnews.com

Marc and Sharon Hagle filed a lawsuit in Orange County in February that accused CEO Stockton Rush of defrauding them of $210,258 which they paid to secure two berths on a 2018 trip to the famed North Atlantic shipwreck.

The Hagles allege that they signed a contract and paid deposits in November 2016 to become one of the first of OceanGate’s paying customers soon after the Titanic expeditions were first publicised.

Explaining his motivation in an interview with Reuters in 2017, Mr Hagle said: “One of our personal goals in life is to not be sitting around in a rocking chair when we are 100 years old saying, ‘I wish I had done that.’”

In mid-2017, the Hagles became suspicious that the submersible vessel, then known as the Cyclops 2, was not going to be ready by the planned departure date, according to the lawsuit.

The court filing states that the Hagles wanted to pull out of the expedition, and requested a refund of their $20,000 deposits.

They claim that Mr Rush visited them at their Florida home in September 2017 to convince them the trip would be going ahead as planned.

OceanGate CEO was sued by couple claiming fraud months before Titanic submarine went missing

Stockton Rush was sued by Florida couple Marc and Sharon Hagle in February after they allegedly paid more than $200,000 for a Titanic wreck expedition that never eventuated

www.aol.com

 

[lonetraveler]

The final ping was probably an indication that the hull was failing.

I agree, probably stress cracks. I've never had a sub tested but I've contracted many, many NDT done on chemical plant tanks and pipe lines before commissioning into service.

 

[JennieM]

Analysis

Best and worst case scenarios to explain Titan’s loss of contact with surface​

Ian Sample
Science editor

[...]

What checks were performed before the submersible and its five occupants slipped beneath the waves are unclear, but standard checks and procedures were followed, the Guardian understands. These would have been absolutely crucial given the crushing pressure generated at 3,800 metres below sea level – the depth of water the Titanic came to rest in – and the real potential of getting lost: the site is nearly 400 miles off the coast of Newfoundland.

Industry insiders said pre-dive preparations would, or should, have included checks on the submersible’s structure and all of the vessel’s mechanical and electrical systems. These aim to ensure all is fine before the descent begins: that the hull is sound, the batteries are charged, there are no short circuits or electrical faults, that the thrusters work, that radio and acoustic communications are functioning, and that the submersible can drop the weights it carries when the time comes to resurface.

Further checks are needed to reduce risks at the dive site. The Titanic itself is a hazardous structure that a submersible could become caught in, but lost trawler fishing nets and other drifting materials either at or near the site can also present a danger of entanglement. An expedition would typically plan to keep a safe distance from the wreckage, though strong undersea currents can make this a challenge. The problem with getting entangled is there is often little that can be done from inside a submersible to work the vessel free.

The Titan was expected to spend two hours descending to the Titanic, a few hours exploring the site, and two more resurfacing. As the vessel plunged deeper, a real-time hull health monitoring system would have reported the strain on the hull, a carbon fibre structure that connects two titanium composite domes.

Contact was lost with the Titan one hour and 45 minutes into the expedition. By that time, experts believe it reached a depth of about 3,500 metres, where each square inch of the structure would have been subjected to a force equivalent to more than two tonnes. While the vessel was designed to operate down to 4,000 metres, and would have had a safety margin to go deeper, industry experts said other deep-sea vessels used steel or titanium alone to ensure their hulls could take the pressure. Carbon fibre is widely regarded as an untested material: when it fails, it can fail catastrophically.

[...]

US and Canadian ships and aircraft have been scrambled, but the bus-sized Titan will be hard to spot in such a vast area of ocean. If the Titan has surfaced, the danger for the crew is not over: the hatch appears to be bolted from the outside, meaning those inside will still need to rely on emergency oxygen to breathe.

One grim possibility is a fire in the cabin. The air in a submersible tends to be enriched with oxygen, making fires more risky. For this reason, petroleum-based skin creams and makeup are typically banned in deep dives, but fires can still take hold and swiftly produce smoke that intoxicates those on board. An emergency ascent should still be possible, however.

If the vessel has become stricken on the seafloor, only specialised deep-sea submersibles and sonar equipment have a good chance of finding it. The Titan embarked with enough oxygen to sustain the pilot and crew for four days, but limited air is not the only issue. If the vessel had lost power, temperatures inside the cabin would have quickly fallen to a frigid 4C, Williams said.

The scenario most feared is that the vessel suffered a catastrophic failure. At such depth, a hull breach would be devastating. “If something’s gone wrong, there’s a good chance it’s gone very wrong,” said Williams. “If the pressure vessel has failed catastrophically, it’s like a small bomb going off. The potential is that all the safety devices might be destroyed in the process.”

Such a fate would probably trigger signals in military hydrophones that are deployed throughout the world’s oceans. When an Argentine submarine was lost in 2017, hydrophones off Ascension Island and the Crozet Islands detected an acoustic signal consistent with a catastrophic failure of the submarine. “Just knowing where the vessel is is a big consideration,” said Williams. “The best case scenario is that the vessel has popped up and can be found visually or with radar.”

Best and worst case scenarios to explain Titan’s loss of contact with surface

The missing submarine had enough oxygen to sustain those onboard for four days, but limited air is far from the only hazard

www.theguardian.com

 

[MsMarple]

I completely agree with you, though we seem to be in the minority.

Looking at the design and construction of Titan, I have many problems with the way it was built and the lack of thorough testing. But the fact that it uses standard off-the-shelf PC components doesn't concern me at all. In a well-designed sub the computers shouldn't be mission critical to begin with, so it really shouldn't matter whether the controller was built by NASA, Logitech or Lego.

I think for some of us it denotes an overall feeling that OceanGate cut corners when building the Titan. Logitech controllers and lights from Camping World don’t inspire confidence and in fact there have been problems with equipment in the past.

Heck, I have 30 year old pc keyboards that still function fine so I get what you’re saying. Would I be comfortable installing one into a vehicle that’s going to dive two miles plus in the ocean? For me, no way. JMO

5 things to know about OceanGate Expeditions, the company behind the lost Titanic sub

The Titan submersible is a one-of-a-kind vessel with some non-traditional parts. Here are 5 things to know about OceanGate Expeditions.

www.boston.com

 

[JDG]

When you realize that 71% of the Earths surface is ocean, you see what the rescuers are up against.

I still hold out hope that they are found alive, traumatized but alive.

Getting them onto a boat is a whole other problem.

Remember the boys in the cave? The rescuer found them by chance but they were all rescued safely. What hell that was for everyone.

 

[arielilane]

Updated Jun 20, 2023 at 10:46am

Paul Henri 'PH' Nargeolet: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

Paul Henri Nargeolet (PH Nargeolet) is among the five passengers on a missing tourist sub that was exploring the Titanic expedition.

heavy.com

Paul Henri Nargeolet is a Titanic expert and French explorer who is among the five passengers on a missing tourist sub that was exploring the famous shipwreck, according to Sky News.



Updated Jun 20, 2023 at 12:15pm

Titanic Sub Passengers: Who Was on the Submersible?

Who is on the passenger list for the Titanic sub?

heavy.com

A billionaire adventurer, a respected Titanic shipwreck expert and the CEO of the company that put the tourist submersible in the sea are among those missing on the sub that was exploring the Titanic’s wreckage in the Atlantic Ocean in June 2023.

That’s according to the billionaire’s stepson and company, and Sky News, which says that Hamish Harding, P.H. Nargeolet, and Stockton Rush, are among the five passengers.



Updated Jun 20, 2023 at 3:07pm

Stockton Rush Family: Wife Wendy Rush Works at OceanGate

Learn about the family of OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush, including his wife, Wendy Rush.

heavy.com

Stockton Rush is the 61-year-old CEO of OceanGate Inc., the company whose tourist submersible has disappeared during an expedition to explore the Titanicshipwreck. His family includes wife Wendy Rush, who is the director of communications for OceanGate and an expedition team leader, according to her LinkedIn page.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Sorry if this may be a re-post, I’m reading the thread backwards:

“Missing Titanic Sub Once Faced Massive Lawsuit Over Depths It Could Safely Travel To

Court documents reveal a former OceanGate employee had several safety complaints over the tourist submersible—and then he was fired…​

…At the meeting Lochridge discovered why he had been denied access to the viewport information from the Engineering department—the viewport at the forward of the submersible was only built to a certified pressure of 1,300 meters, although OceanGate intended to take passengers down to depths of 4,000 meters.

Lochridge learned that the viewport manufacturer would only certify to a depth of 1,300 meters due to experimental design of the viewport supplied by OceanGate, which was out of the Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy (“PVHO”) standards. OceanGate refused to pay for the manufacturer to build a viewport that would meet the required depth of 4,000 meters.”

Missing Titanic Sub Once Faced Massive Lawsuit Over Depths It Could Safely Travel To

Court documents reveal a former OceanGate employee had several safety complaints over the tourist submersible—and then he was fired.

newrepublic.com

 

[lonetraveler]

Sorry if this may be a re-post, I’m reading the thread backwards:

“Missing Titanic Sub Once Faced Massive Lawsuit Over Depths It Could Safely Travel To

Court documents reveal a former OceanGate employee had several safety complaints over the tourist submersible—and then he was fired…​

…At the meeting Lochridge discovered why he had been denied access to the viewport information from the Engineering department—the viewport at the forward of the submersible was only built to a certified pressure of 1,300 meters, although OceanGate intended to take passengers down to depths of 4,000 meters.

Lochridge learned that the viewport manufacturer would only certify to a depth of 1,300 meters due to experimental design of the viewport supplied by OceanGate, which was out of the Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy (“PVHO”) standards. OceanGate refused to pay for the manufacturer to build a viewport that would meet the required depth of 4,000 meters.”

Missing Titanic Sub Once Faced Massive Lawsuit Over Depths It Could Safely Travel To

Court documents reveal a former OceanGate employee had several safety complaints over the tourist submersible—and then he was fired.

newrepublic.com

Oh wow, I have been wondering about that viewport. How on earth could it be approved for the depths intended? This is a big major problem.

 

[AC4RD]

I think when we hear playstation/xbox controller, then our brains maybe equate that with 'toy' and that makes it sound ridiculous and low tech? But I think the technology in it is the same as what you'd use if you were designing your own controller, so why spend a million on designing something you can buy for $50?

I just started saying the same thing; if I were building a sub and needed XY controllers for maneuvering, I'd buy them from Digi-Key or 'Ali Express' or one of a bunch of other suppliers; there's a screenshot attached of joysticks from those two. There are also whole handheld "game controllers" (wired and bluetooth.) If you're building a submarine, you can't just order "thruster prop controllers" premade, you've got to design and build the systems. And the parts come from suppliers like these. MHO.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Captain David Marquet, who served in the US submarine force for 28 years, told the Mirror: "The laws of nature are really quite unforgiving. If you don’t do something right…

"We would always say: 'Nature doesn’t care if you went to church that day'. You do the wrong thing, you're going to sink. You’re going to die."

He also explained the plight the missing crew face: "They might be in darkness or have a very dim light but that won’t kill them. Running out of oxygen and then inhaling carbon dioxide is the problem."

Two things missing crew in Titanic sub can do to help rescuers find them

A massive rescue operation has been launched involving US and Canadian coast guards along with multiple private vessels. The search area covers 7,600 square miles, larger than the US state of Connecticut

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[AC4RD]

Oh wow, I have been wondering about that viewport. How on earth could it be approved for the depths intended? This is a big major problem.

"Approved." There weren't any safety boards stamping the sub's paperwork with "Officially approved for passenger travel." The "mission specialist" designation means the company claimed (probably, IMO) not to be carrying paying passengers, which WOULD have required regulatory oversight. This company found a way, apparently, around of that 'regulatory burden' we keep hearing about. People die underwater all the time; I wonder what the fatality rate per person-hour of submerged travel is, for US Navy submarines with strict engineering and safety controls, vs privately built deep-sea submersibles? JMHO.

 

[lonetraveler]

"Approved." There weren't any safety boards stamping the sub's paperwork with "Officially approved for passenger travel." The "mission specialist" designation means the company claimed (probably, IMO) not to be carrying paying passengers, which WOULD have required regulatory oversight. This company found a way, apparently, around of that 'regulatory burden' we keep hearing about. People die underwater all the time; I wonder what the fatality rate per person-hour of submerged travel is, for US Navy submarines with strict engineering and safety controls, vs privately built deep-sea submersibles? JMHO.

Approved was the wrong word, I apologize. I do understand that the company has found a way around the 'passenger' requirement by having the people on board go through short training program so that they are considered "crew". Apparently the company has also found a way around any industrial standards in testing the hull of the sub. IMO, the families of these passengers will most definitely sue the hell out of the remaining owners of this company.
'

 

[jesse]

When you realize that 71% of the Earths surface is ocean, you see what the rescuers are up against.

I still hold out hope that they are found alive, traumatized but alive.

Getting them onto a boat is a whole other problem.

Remember the boys in the cave? The rescuer found them by chance but they were all rescued safely. What hell that was for everyone.

One rescuer did die, though, tragically.

 

[Arkay]

Remember the boys in the cave? The rescuer found them by chance but they were all rescued safely. What hell that was for everyone

I was riveted from start to finish when that situation was ongoing. Thank God the outcome was a miracle.

It was heart wrenching because they were all children, except for their coach. Anything could have happened—-starvation, drowning, injuries—— but IMO the one good thing was that the search area was finite.

Of course the cave was treacherous and the boys could have been in any condition, or hidden in some nook or cranny where it would be difficult to spot them. Still, again it was a finite area and the searchers knew where to look, even if they may not have found them.


This—-the ocean—-so deep, such strong currents—-are they floating imperceptibly at the surface somewhere? Are they at the bottom of the sea? IMO the odds of a successful rescue are vanishingly small at this juncture.

I will be overjoyed if I’m mistaken.


ETA: @jesse I just saw your post above mine. Thank you for the reminder that one rescuer did die .

I know one of the boys died recently from an unrelated cause, but yes this is a reminder again about how dangerous a rescue can be for those who attempt it.

 

[LordMo]

imo it's not too far-fetched to use a video game controller in an extremely niche use-case, but the red flag for a lot of people is that the specific controller used is a "little brother" controller, aka a cheap hunk of junk with a known history of structural and connectivity errors among owners, usually running 30-50 dollars less than the real deal.

Like, most people can't wrap their head around the tensile strength of materials and shapes and etc. but tons of people HAVE owned a cruddy aftermarket controller, so I suppose it's natural people would cling onto that as their point of reference.

 

[Howl]

US Navy retired submarine captain interviewed by some talking head today:
Talking head: "What do you see as the biggest problem?"
Retired captain: "Well, they haven't been found."

 

[Gardenista]

This shows the testing done at the Applied Physics Laboratory of the University of Washington 7 years ago

 

[JDG]

US Navy retired submarine captain interviewed by some talking head today:
Talking head: "What do you see as the biggest problem?"
Retired captain: "Well, they haven't been found."

Fire that talking head! Right away.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I just started saying the same thing; if I were building a sub and needed XY controllers for maneuvering, I'd buy them from Digi-Key or 'Ali Express' or one of a bunch of other suppliers; there's a screenshot attached of joysticks from those two. There are also whole handheld "game controllers" (wired and bluetooth.) If you're building a submarine, you can't just order "thruster prop controllers" premade, you've got to design and build the systems. And the parts come from suppliers like these. MHO.

Whether I’m paying $10 or $250,000 for a ticket two miles deep to see the Titanic, I would be expecting the vehicle I’m riding in to have been properly designed to reach those depths and that would include designing systems to run it and steer it. I would expect it to have been rigorously tested and to have important things like life support and steering and communication to be redundant.
There is no way that sub should have been steered by game controllers and lit by purchases from Camping World.
OceanGate cut corners I guess to save money. I‘m thinking there are five families, including the CEO’s, that are not thinking that was worth it.

 

[Mama-dukes]

Ok I’m trying my best 2 read the comments but they r coming in so much I’m confused could there man anyway that maybe they have been taken hostage or something like that by another country or something because this is starting 2 get crazy anything is possible