To train up a child, book has lead to the death of 3 children

[SweetT]

I'm sure these people didn't need a book to help them with abusing children. Just an excuse for them.
I also recall reading in the Bible somewhere that you were never to discipline a child to the point of breaking their spirit.
I though parents wanted their babies to learn to crawl off the blankets? We were all excited when our babies did. I can't imagine spanking a tiny tot at all. With a spoon? with a stick? Just BS. These folks don't deserve to have kids, or raise kids.

 

[oh_gal]

I've heard of blanket training from some of my more churchy friends, but it doesn't involve spanking or beating. Basically, it involves training a child slowly to sit quietly. You start with a very short amount of time, and work your way up, with the goal of having your child sit quietly for church. I've seen a few of my friends succeed with it, and they didn't spank at all.

Found a blog post that details something similar to what my friends do:

http://www.aboverubies.net/2012/03/first-time-obedience-blanket-training.html

I looked at that blog...it's rather fascinating to me -- not necessarily in a "wow! That sounds great!" way...fascinating as in pondering something that seems odd to you.

I'm sorry, and I sure don't mean to be offensive (but I'm sure I will offend some)...but it reminds me of training a dog, or some other animal.

 

[La Louve]

Disgusting. If three children have reportedly been killed, one can only imagine how many more have died or suffered at their ill-informed parents' hands without catching the attention or concern of CPS and LE.

Change.org has a petition, which apparently has not yet gotten enough signatures to convince Amazon to withdraw the books from their electronic shelves. But one can always let Amazon know that they will be boycotted until they do so.

https://www.change.org/petitions/am...which-advocate-the-physical-abuse-of-children

Besides signing this petition (and sharing it on our facebook pages), we can add our own comments and one-star reviews to sites like Amazon. We can also educate our local bookstores about this book and the deaths that have come from it, and urge them to remove the book from their shelves. I see my beloved Powell's City of Books also carries it. Their CEO will be hearing from me soon.

 

[killarney rose]

DH and I are Christians. Raised inChristian homes and raised our kids that way. Have a son who is a minister.

I can assure you, none of us believes in this garbage, nor do our churches. It is offensive and frustrating to be likened to people like these.

From babyhood our children were taught to be quiet and behave in church as well as other public places. And we didnt need trash like this to do it. It was told to them why they were expected to be quiet. When they were toddlers, they came to "big church" for the first half hour of singing, announcements, prayer, etc. then off to the nursery they went during preaching. After they were too old for the nursery, they had a special bag they brought to church. It was only for church. It was filled with small coloring and activity books, stickers, a small doll, or car etc. quiet activities to keep them occupied and quiet. They were never beaten to keep them quiet.

 

[Ausgirl]

^ Killarney Rose, like I said, I feel so sorry for the good folks who share the title of Christian with these idiots.

Good on you for raising your kids to be respectful, in a way that is respectful to -them-. That's what I call being a good person, and it probably counts toward being a good Christian as well.

Says me, who was raised with such an utter lack of religiosity that I thought 'Jesus Christ' was a swear word you said when you dropped something on your foot and the like, until I was seven years old and it was all explained to me during my first religious ed class..

I was most embarrassed, having told a kid to quit swearing for saying it just a few days before. No wonder that kid looked at me funny. ropeller:

eta: I really don't recall thinking it, but at some point I must have wondered why all the Christmas songs had so much cussing in them...

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Ok, so another adopted child dead.

Methods from the book:



How is someone even publishing this crap?

This is absolutely abuse. As a Christian who believes every word of the bible is true and has purpose, There is nothing in the bible about beating your children into submission.

What a sad horrible book. And what idiots that would pick it up, look at these small defenseless people and beat them.

 

[La Louve]

I looked at that blog...it's rather fascinating to me -- not necessarily in a "wow! That sounds great!" way...fascinating as in pondering something that seems odd to you.

I'm sorry, and I sure don't mean to be offensive (but I'm sure I will offend some)...but it reminds me of training a dog, or some other animal.

BBM #1 Fascinating like finding a stone age tribe in the deep jungles of South America that has never had contact with "modern" humans.

BBM #2 Even a dog has the intellectual capacity of a three-year old child. "Blanket training" a 6-9 month old child (as advocated on that website) is abusive in itself, IMO.

 

[killarney rose]

I do have a funny story I love to tell on DS3, the one who is a minister. He was my willfull little hardhead. And he had been taken out and gotten a spanking more than once as a wiggle worm that would not be quiet. He had me at my wits end one Sunday morning. I had whispered in his ear that if I had to tell him to be quiet one more time I was taking him out for a spanking. Well, then he started that he had to go to the bathroom. DH looked over his head to me and indicated he would take him DS didnt know. So when DH picked him and started out the door with him, DS starts kicking and crying out,"Don't whip me Daddy, I'll be good!" Needless to say, he brought the entire church down, even the preacher cracked up, and DH was mortified. DS has never outlived that one.

 

[La Louve]

People have been using religious texts to suit their own ends and justify their own reprehensible actions for millenia.

Proverbs 23:13-14 (King James Version, the version I was raised on. And I was spanked until I was 11 years old!)

13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die .
14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

 

[txsvicki]

And another, Spare the rod and spoil the child. I thought the rod and the staff was used in herding and guiding sheep. Shepards would not beat sheep.

 

[AnaTeresa]

I looked at that blog...it's rather fascinating to me -- not necessarily in a "wow! That sounds great!" way...fascinating as in pondering something that seems odd to you.

I'm sorry, and I sure don't mean to be offensive (but I'm sure I will offend some)...but it reminds me of training a dog, or some other animal.

Yeah, it's not for me, but I did want to chime in that I knew of some blanket training that didn't involve corporal punishment. Since I've heard of more than a few people doing it, I wanted to put it out there in case someone saw/heard someone use the phrase and immediately assumed it meant spanking or beating to ensure compliance.

BBM #1 Fascinating like finding a stone age tribe in the deep jungles of South America that has never had contact with "modern" humans.

BBM #2 Even a dog has the intellectual capacity of a three-year old child. "Blanket training" a 6-9 month old child (as advocated on that website) is abusive in itself, IMO.

How is that abusive? While it's not something I would do, I really don't see how putting your small child on a blanket with special toys, for five minutes at a time, to get them used to sitting quietly and playing, is abusive. It's certainly odd and it assumes you can train a child like you can a puppy, but it's not abusive - the only discipline is to put the child back on the blanket if they move and tell them no.

 

[La Louve]

I've heard of blanket training from some of my more churchy friends, but it doesn't involve spanking or beating. Basically, it involves training a child slowly to sit quietly. You start with a very short amount of time, and work your way up, with the goal of having your child sit quietly for church. I've seen a few of my friends succeed with it, and they didn't spank at all.

Found a blog post that details something similar to what my friends do:

http://www.aboverubies.net/2012/03/first-time-obedience-blanket-training.html

The author of that blog recommends starting with 5 minutes of "blanket training" for a 6-9 month old child. Having trained several dogs, I can tell you that you start training a 6-month old puppy to stay for 30 seconds, and work up from there. ETA And if the dog breaks the "stay" you never tell them "no", you simply take them back to the spot where they were. And when the allotted time has passed, you PRAISE the dog to reinforce the behavior you want. I saw nothing in that woman's blog about praising the child for "correct" behavior.

SMH I hate to think how these people treat their animals, if this is the regard they show for their children.

 

[Kaliste]

How is it legal to publish and sell a book that PROMOTES child abuse?! I couldn't even sleep train my baby, I felt it was cruel. No sleep for mama was also cruel but atleast my baby was happy, loved and safe.

 

[La Louve]

Yeah, it's not for me, but I did want to chime in that I knew of some blanket training that didn't involve corporal punishment. Since I've heard of more than a few people doing it, I wanted to put it out there in case someone saw/heard someone use the phrase and immediately assumed it meant spanking or beating to ensure compliance.



How is that abusive? While it's not something I would do, I really don't see how putting your small child on a blanket with special toys, for five minutes at a time, to get them used to sitting quietly and playing, is abusive. It's certainly odd and it assumes you can train a child like you can a puppy, but it's not abusive - the only discipline is to put the child back on the blanket if they move and tell them no.

Respectfully, abuse doesn't have to be physical to be abuse. IMO this is psychological abuse in that it's about controlling the child to suit the parent's needs, [ETA] to the detriment of the developing child's needs. A 6 month old is all about exploring their world and gaining the motor skills to eventually walk. I can only imagine the stunting of a child's natural curiosity that occurs from such "training".

 

[killarney rose]

People have been using religious texts to suit their own ends and justify their own reprehensible actions for millenia.

Proverbs 23:13-14 (King James Version, the version I was raised on. And I was spanked until I was 11 years old!)

13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die .
14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

You are absolutely correct. Most cults twist scripture to suit their own purposes.

One thing to understand is that words can vary in various translations of the Bible. The KJV was written IIRC in the 1600s. So the word rod could take on a different meaning with the passing of time.

A more current translation reads like this, and sounds much better in our times.


Proverbs 23:13-14
New International Reader's Version (NIRV)


Don’t hold back training from a child.
If you correct him, he won’t die.
So correct him.
Then you will save him from death.


ETA this translation works well too.


Proverbs 23:13-14
The Voice (VOICE)
13 Do not withhold discipline from children,
since corporal punishment will not kill them.
14 In fact, it may be that kind of punishment
that will save them from an early grave.

 

[Ausgirl]

How is it legal to publish and sell a book that PROMOTES child abuse?! I couldn't even sleep train my baby, I felt it was cruel. No sleep for mama was also cruel but atleast my baby was happy, loved and safe.

omg, me neither.. there was nothing natural or healthy to me about leaving my new baby to scream while I sat in another room. Unthinkable!

My daughter was all but glued to her parents all through infancy and that included sleep time (once past the newborn/very tiny stage). Her cot was in our room. She was welcome to sleep in our bed, if she wanted to, up until age 3 when she decided that was what babies did and never did it again (except during the odd thunderstorm, or after a particularly scary dream) and wanted her own room, stat. Never was she left to scream and fret. And she didn't grow up 'spoiled' or clingy at all.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I'd like to find out which churches promote the book, and know exactly why the military gives it out.

My granddaughter is married to a career Army man who is deployed to Qatar right now. She calls me every day on her way back from college classes. I just asked her if she's ever heard of this book and if the Army/Air Force gives it out. She was a former MP in the Air Force. She said NO, the military does NOT give it to them. She's never even heard of it. That is wrong information!

:moo:

 

[Ausgirl]

You are absolutely correct. Most cults twist scripture to suit their own purposes.

One thing to understand is that words can vary in various translations of the Bible. The KJV was written IIRC in the 1600s. So the word rod could take on a different meaning with the passing of time.

A more current translation reads like this, and sounds much better in our times.


Proverbs 23:13-14
New International Reader's Version (NIRV)


Don’t hold back training from a child.
If you correct him, he won’t die.
So correct him.
Then you will save him from death.

^ bbm - I like that version best.

Beating your kids up was a lot more acceptable in the past. But so was setting people on fire in the town square. It would be nice to think we've progressed from there, eh.

 

[txsvicki]

Yes, I totally misworded and misread the article. It said the book is sent for free to military families and NOT that it is given out by the military.

 

[La Louve]

You are absolutely correct. Most cults twist scripture to suit their own purposes.

One thing to understand is that words can vary in various translations of the Bible. The KJV was written IIRC in the 1600s. So the word rod could take on a different meaning with the passing of time.

A more current translation reads like this, and sounds much better in our times.


Proverbs 23:13-14
New International Reader's Version (NIRV)


Don’t hold back training from a child.
If you correct him, he won’t die.
So correct him.
Then you will save him from death.


ETA this translation works well too.


Proverbs 23:13-14
The Voice (VOICE)
13 Do not withhold discipline from children,
since corporal punishment will not kill them.
14 In fact, it may be that kind of punishment
that will save them from an early grave.

I fear we are straying away from the OP, as interesting as bibilical history is. But I do want to add that the KJV saw its own evolution from the early 1600s until the mid 18th century. source: King James Version - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And it was in common use well into the mid 20th century. In my mainstream Lutheran upbringing, it was in use far beyond the 50s.

And one society's "cult" is just another society's organized religion. Even the early Christians were considered a cult by the Roman empire.

But back to the topic at hand, my mom and her siblings were beaten with a razor strap when they "misbehaved". My mother chose to spank me with her hand, never using any sort of implement. Interesting that something made her choose not to use the same method of corporal punishment that she received, which I assume was based on some unconscious empathy. And yet she still chose to use physical punishment on a regular basis, far beyond a swat on the butt to a toddler for sticking their hand in a fire (for example). To me, those spankings were both physical and psychological abuse.