Trail to the Water & Cadaver dog hits

[Indigo]

Good Morning, I have studied this map and can not find where the dock is on the St John's River where the dogs supposedly hit first.

Anyone know?

I'm hoping somebody can help us both with that, scandi.

xox (always loved that signature of yours)

 

[scandi]

I'm hoping somebody can help us both with that, scandi.

xox (always loved that signature of yours)

Hi Indigo, O/T, I'm gonna go crazy today not being by my 'lil 'puter. Wish I could play :sick:


XOX


PS: This will be my first stop tonight. Happy Sleuthin'

 

[Capri]

Fla. rules/requirements for boat registration, FYI:

http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/faqboat.html

 

[hornswoggled]

I'm resurrecting a post I made in a thread that was closed shortly after I posted. But it did answer some questions I had about these dogs.

Here's an excerpt from this website on dogs

TRAILING vs. TRACKING. Many people use these terms interchangeably, but they are not the same. TRACKING dogs follow the smell of crushed and/or disturbed vegetation and ground litter (twigs, leaves, etc.). This "scent" is short lived, and is highly subject to contamination; if another person walks across the "track" they will leave a fresher, better track for the dog to follow, but they are both essentially the same other than age. Tracking is very difficult on hard or paved surfaces. Depending on how the dog is trained, there may be a component of human scent involved, but it is either not the primary focus of the dog, or it is generic human scent not a specific person's scent the dog is following. Tracking dog handlers are always very concerned about the track being contaminated.
TRAILING dogs on the other hand follow, or trail, the individual scent path left by a person as they walk (or run, or ride a bike, or, yes, even if they are in a vehicle). This scent trail is not subject to contamination because each person's scent is individual, and remains distinct from any and all other person's scent trails in the area. Well-trained dogs can follow their subject even though hundreds or even thousands of other people walked through the same area. Trailing dog handlers are NOT concerned about the trail being contaminated.

The website is http://www.scentevidencecanines.com/missinglink3.htm

 

[tehcloser]

Maybe someone else will remember this. Which one of the family members said something about working on that river for like 20 years or so and that they knew the river well? This was early on, I saw it in one of the general discussion threads and have searched many times since and can not find it. I think crabbing was mentioned. Is it ring a dinging any bells with anyone?

 

[Elphaba]

Can that pond be drained?

 

[concentric]

Ronald had the kids all weekend and he was off work. LE took his john boat early on. I think it could indicate maybe he had taken the kids out to fish possibly? If so, it could account for the scent lingering where the dogs would pick it up.

Even kids afraid of water love a beach if they are not forced to go in, but sit near the edge to get wet with an adult there. They don't mind wading pools or kiddie pools either.

Thanks SS, and yes, you did answer my question about the possibility of a boat being used, very early on in this case where you said much the same.

Now the rr tracks is another issue. Unless Ron can say that he and Haleigh went to watch the trains go by.

 

[sha-sha]

Maybe the boat belonged to someone else. LE hasn't told us who the van they're processing belongs to either. But for Misty's blanket to be in it, there has to be some connection there.

If so, it seems Misty and Ron should be suspecting that person or persons by now.

Can someone refresh my memory here? Has LE actually said they have a "van"? I thought maybe they just said "vehicle". Would they call a boat a vehicle or would they call it watercraft or something?

 

[Indigo]

Can someone refresh my memory here? Has LE actually said they have a "van"? I thought maybe they just said "vehicle". Would they call a boat a vehicle or would they call it watercraft or something?

Hi, sha-sha. The information about "van" being taken came from Misty. LE hasn't breathed a word of information about it. All we know is that it has been confirmed that a vehicle is being processed or has been processed.

 

[Indigo]

I'm resurrecting a post I made in a thread that was closed shortly after I posted. But it did answer some questions I had about these dogs.

Here's an excerpt from this website on dogs

TRAILING vs. TRACKING. Many people use these terms interchangeably, but they are not the same. TRACKING dogs follow the smell of crushed and/or disturbed vegetation and ground litter (twigs, leaves, etc.). This "scent" is short lived, and is highly subject to contamination; if another person walks across the "track" they will leave a fresher, better track for the dog to follow, but they are both essentially the same other than age. Tracking is very difficult on hard or paved surfaces. Depending on how the dog is trained, there may be a component of human scent involved, but it is either not the primary focus of the dog, or it is generic human scent not a specific person's scent the dog is following. Tracking dog handlers are always very concerned about the track being contaminated.
TRAILING dogs on the other hand follow, or trail, the individual scent path left by a person as they walk (or run, or ride a bike, or, yes, even if they are in a vehicle). This scent trail is not subject to contamination because each person's scent is individual, and remains distinct from any and all other person's scent trails in the area. Well-trained dogs can follow their subject even though hundreds or even thousands of other people walked through the same area. Trailing dog handlers are NOT concerned about the trail being contaminated.

The website is http://www.scentevidencecanines.com/missinglink3.htm

Thanks, hornswoggled! It seems bloodhounds are trailers by nature...able to distinguish the scent of one human from another:

"The definition of trailing as stated in the ABC trailing standard is as follows: The purpose of a trailing trial is to certify the Bloodhound's abilities for trailing and correctly identifying a specific person in a field setting. I would probably amend the ABC trailing standard to include the ability of a dog to "scent discriminate" as this is truly what our Bloodhounds excel at."


http://www.bloodhounds.org/trailing/tvst.html

 

[sha-sha]

Hi, sha-sha. The information about "van" being taken came from Misty. LE hasn't breathed a word of information about it. All we know is that it has been confirmed that a vehicle is being processed or has been processed.

Ok that's what I remember. I know Misty said "the van they took" but nobody knows which "they" she was referring to. Maybe the vehicle they have IS the boat? Wonder if an awesome sleuther can find out what vehicles are registered to Ron?

 

[raeann]

No one has posted anything that confirms that the boat belonged to Ron or anyone in the neighborhood have they? Several accounts from reporters at the time the boat "was taken" stated that the boat belonged to searchers...not necessarily LE owned....just that they were using it to search the water.

 

[proudmama]

bumping back up hoping that I can get an answer.

from wikipedia:

a flat-bottomed boat constructed of aluminum or wood with 1 to 3 bench seats. Their most useful purpose is for hunting due to the greater level of stability as compared with a V-hull aluminum boat; however they are quite suitable for fishing as well. Because the hull of a Jon boat is nearly flat, it tends to ride over the waves rather than cut through them as a V-hull might, thus limiting the use of the boat to calmer waters. Jon boats typically have a transom onto which an outboard motor can be mounted. They are simple and easy to maintain, and inexpensive with many options to upgrade.

Jon boats are available commercially between 8 and 20 feet (6.1 m) long and 36 inches (910 mm) to 56 inches (1.4 m) wide, though custom sizes may be found. The simple design includes an open hull, without a bilge, leaving the ribs exposed. Many individuals choose to cover the ribs leaving a flat, level surface.

In many places, small V-Hull boats can be considered Jon boats too

 

[Indigo]

Thanks SS, and yes, you did answer my question about the possibility of a boat being used, very early on in this case where you said much the same.

Now the rr tracks is another issue. Unless Ron can say that he and Haleigh went to watch the trains go by.

Hi there, concentric. Do you have any idea where Haleigh's bus stop is in relation to the tracks? TIA.

 

[elle1919]

from wikipedia:

a flat-bottomed boat constructed of aluminum or wood with 1 to 3 bench seats. Their most useful purpose is for hunting due to the greater level of stability as compared with a V-hull aluminum boat; however they are quite suitable for fishing as well. Because the hull of a Jon boat is nearly flat, it tends to ride over the waves rather than cut through them as a V-hull might, thus limiting the use of the boat to calmer waters. Jon boats typically have a transom onto which an outboard motor can be mounted. They are simple and easy to maintain, and inexpensive with many options to upgrade.

Jon boats are available commercially between 8 and 20 feet (6.1 m) long and 36 inches (910 mm) to 56 inches (1.4 m) wide, though custom sizes may be found. The simple design includes an open hull, without a bilge, leaving the ribs exposed. Many individuals choose to cover the ribs leaving a flat, level surface.

In many places, small V-Hull boats can be considered Jon boats too

why thank you...What I really wanted to know is if Ronald had one of these boats...and did he take the children fishing on it the weekend prior to Haleigh's disappearance

 

[Indigo]

why thank you...What I really wanted to know is if Ronald had one of these boats...and did he take the children fishing on it the weekend prior to Haleigh's disappearance

Hi, elle. Don't know any of the answers yet, but I did find a pic of a
Putnam County Sheriff's boat (from February 13 search) right off of the dock in question. I don't see any boat at the dock, and this particular Sheriff's boat doesn't appear to be a Jon Boat. I'll try to post a link to the photo (hope it's an approved site)

Here goes:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6kkH4xekiNo/SZa6Oo6-vNI/AAAAAAAAEBg/bLGIQ_Ho-zY/s400/bilde.jpg

Quotes from that day from Putnam County Sheriff’s Capt. Steve Rose:


We had a very productive day." "We were successful in securing what would be described as items of interest."

 

[Houndacres]

Thanks, hornswoggled! It seems bloodhounds are trailers by nature...able to distinguish the scent of one human from another:

"The definition of trailing as stated in the ABC trailing standard is as follows: The purpose of a trailing trial is to certify the Bloodhound's abilities for trailing and correctly identifying a specific person in a field setting. I would probably amend the ABC trailing standard to include the ability of a dog to "scent discriminate" as this is truly what our Bloodhounds excel at."


http://www.bloodhounds.org/trailing/tvst.html

The difference between tracking vs. trailing would also include:
when a dog tracks its nose is always to the ground and they are following the runners footsteps. In trailing, they are getting their via the best way, they can air scent, they can follow the footsteps or they can sniff the air and beeline to the person. They don't necessarily have to go where the runner went, they just have to find them. When they are tracking, they have to stay close to where the runner actually went, they have to find articles. A bloodhound might miss an article trailing because they don't have to sniff footsteps to find their person.

 

[Indigo]

The difference between tracking vs. trailing would also include:
when a dog tracks its nose is always to the ground and they are following the runners footsteps. In trailing, they are getting their via the best way, they can air scent, they can follow the footsteps or they can sniff the air and beeline to the person. They don't necessarily have to go where the runner went, they just have to find them. When they are tracking, they have to stay close to where the runner actually went, they have to find articles. A bloodhound might miss an article trailing because they don't have to sniff footsteps to find their person.

Hi, Houndacres! Thanks for the info. What's your opinion of the trail that the dogs followed in this case? Could they have picked up an earlier scent from Haleigh's school route that morning, along with the route she had taken out of the home that night? TIA.

 

[txsvicki]

I'm resurrecting a post I made in a thread that was closed shortly after I posted. But it did answer some questions I had about these dogs.

Here's an excerpt from this website on dogs

TRAILING vs. TRACKING. Many people use these terms interchangeably, but they are not the same. TRACKING dogs follow the smell of crushed and/or disturbed vegetation and ground litter (twigs, leaves, etc.). This "scent" is short lived, and is highly subject to contamination; if another person walks across the "track" they will leave a fresher, better track for the dog to follow, but they are both essentially the same other than age. Tracking is very difficult on hard or paved surfaces. Depending on how the dog is trained, there may be a component of human scent involved, but it is either not the primary focus of the dog, or it is generic human scent not a specific person's scent the dog is following. Tracking dog handlers are always very concerned about the track being contaminated.
TRAILING dogs on the other hand follow, or trail, the individual scent path left by a person as they walk (or run, or ride a bike, or, yes, even if they are in a vehicle). This scent trail is not subject to contamination because each person's scent is individual, and remains distinct from any and all other person's scent trails in the area. Well-trained dogs can follow their subject even though hundreds or even thousands of other people walked through the same area. Trailing dog handlers are NOT concerned about the trail being contaminated.

The website is http://www.scentevidencecanines.com/missinglink3.htm

Thankyou for posting this again, it's very helpful. Do you think that Dauber, the dog who tracked Laci Peterson was a trailing dog since he trailed her so far even all the way out the end of that dock and stood looking towards the water? I wish they had a trailing dog looking for Haleigh.

 

[Indigo]

Thankyou for posting this again, it's very helpful. Do you think that Dauber, the dog who tracked Laci Peterson was a trailing dog since he trailed her so far even all the way out the end of that dock and stood looking towards the water? I wish they had a trailing dog looking for Haleigh.

Oh no...they weren't trailing dogs? :frown: