trial day 39: the defense continues its case in chief #117

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think of it this way, oct-jul = 9months

the spend say 15mins on each month (YAWNNN) so that = 2hours 15mins then add another 45 mins of bla bla bla in for the heck of it we know willmott and her sidebars. so that = 3hours

court is 5hours so what could they possibly bang on about for another 2hours?

im telling myself logically this is what will happen :floorlaugh:

I like the way you think, I hope you're right! The only thing that is keeping me tuned in is just imagining JM going after her during cross examination. Let's hope you're right, they move it along and we see him today.

Where are they going with all of these rambles? Do you think they'll get to a discussion of how being "abused" would lead to JA overkill in murdering TA?

PS: I'm new here, but I have been reading for a while, decided to just jump in. :seeya:
 
Right you are! No way am I going to blame Juror #5 before even listening to her side of the story. I will assume she did nothing wrong. I have no respect for this Defense. I don't trust them one bit.

Thanks. :) The unfortunate truth is that if that outcome of the case ends in anything less than the death penalty we will all understandably wonder if things might have been different.

I'm very interested to see the next round of jury questions to see what the tone is like, without Tri-color's questions.
 
I guess the doctor thought having a man in the house would help stabilize the home--you know, two-parent family. I mentioned it as a real irony that a Stanford-education child psychiatrist, top of his field, would give me advice I could have gotten from Ann Landers.

This is so aggravating. I got the same advice from a *female* child psychiatrist case worker at my insurance company, "Too bad you're not remarried or have an uncle or other male family member near-by." Because my son needs a male roll model to "replace" his absentee father.

Yeah, that'll work.
 
You might be right. I was strongly for the death penalty earlier in this case. But in recent weeks, it has become obvious that she has had mental problems for many years. Now, I am less inclined to the DP and a bit more open to LWOP.

I still think the DP is justified, but LWOP would not bother me as much as it would have a few weeks ago.

Interesting. However, wouldn't anyone who butchered another human being have mental problems? Are you saying you're against the DP in general? Curious. :seeya:
 
I'm bringing this over from the Observer thread because it's more of a discussion topic. :seeya:



I still like and feel apprehensive for ALV. If she stuck to the admonition not to follow the trial until called to testify, she has no clue - or is just gaining a dawning realization - of the scope and breadth of Jodi Arias' litany of lies and manipulations. I suspect that might have something to do with her growing terror. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I am. A LOT! :D), but the DT could absolutely have given her completely one-sided or limited information. In fact, wouldn't that be a good idea strategically? Why would they give her the true story when the defense story presented as truth would make her a more convincing witness? ALV is too accomplished and together imo, especially compared to Samuels, to just make up things out of whole cloth. At the time of her analysis I am certain she believed these things to be true. I try to remember that these witnesses don't have the omniscient perspective we have. I am very interested to see what Juan does on cross for a lot of reasons and won't be surprised if she actually gets turned into a witness for the prosecution. MOO

In the meantime, her current back and forth with Wilmott makes me sleep like a baby, so I appreciate her for that. :blushing:


Here is the problem I have with ALV - her first day on the stand she waxed on and on about how important it was to her to speak with both sides because that is how she gets a fuller picture of a given situation. So far what she has done has repeatedly stated Jodi told me this and Jodi told me that and I read this in her journal and this in her email. The only so called input she has had from Travis are some emails and text messages, of which she asked the murderess for context and then she fabricates her opinion of a man she is completely ignorant of.

I fail to find her analysis either fair or even remotely believeable. As to what the DT told her - simple, she was abused, make it look so. No respect here - she violated her own principals for $250 an hour while preparing herself and is now soaking the taxpayers $300 an hour to try to get a butcher out of their just reward. I find her quite disgusting and one more example as to why her profession is often viewed as complete bs full whackadoodle do gooders.
 
Why not respect the judge then? The judge isn't going to dismiss a juror without substantial evidence that misconduct has happened.

Would you feel the same about juror #5 if it did indeed cause a mistrial? I don't think the welcome wagon would be as welcoming for that juror in that instance.

I think just about everyone would be upset with her, if she did something serious enough to cause a mistrial. Personally, considering the number of times the DT has called for a mistrial, and how cautious the judge has been I think it is possible it could have been something slightly more than trivial, but enough for the DT to succeed in having her removed.

It is still very disappointing, considering how attentive and active in note-taking this juror had been.
 
The tape between Jodi's father and Det. Flores was very intriguing. Her father used the word rage when describing Jodi's behavior. Who uses that word?

I mean, you call back and you are angry, upset, mad, crying etc....but rage???

This should tell us how out of control she was. I bet her parents became afraid of her in the year leading up to Travis's death. Even her father stated she had been like this the past year or so. Jodi became more crazed because she could not have her ultimate prize - Travis.

I agree with you that JA's parents were afraid of what she might do to them, now that the tape of her father's interrogation has come out. I do remember that it was mentioned that JA said her dad had a gun that he kept by his side......hmmmm, now that makes more sense! Does anyone have a link to this?
 
I just finished watching the interview clips of JA's parents and I gotta say: I feel for them. I can't imagine being told your daughter is accused of murdering someone so violently and knowing that she needed help. I don't know what her mother feels now that she's in the trial, but I do have compassion for her and JA's father.

The whole thing got me thinking about Ted Bundy. His mother to the day he died loved him. Right before he was put to death she had a chance to talk to him, and her last words to him were "you'll always be my little boy" or something like that. She knew what he'd done but she couldn't help but love him. What an impossible situation to be in.

That line of thinking got me thinking about Bundy's last interview with Dr. James Dobson. The video is in 3 parts on youtube, and if you watch it, he's a GOOD liar. I mean he had me going for a while, thinking maybe, just maybe, he actually had a shred of remorse for what he'd done.

But at the end of the interview there's a split second, and you miss it if you blink, where Dobson looks away or something like that, and the true Bundy comes out. His whole expression changes, and there is true evil in his eyes. He looks at Dobson as if to read whether or not Dobson believes he is reformed, so to speak. And you know in just that one look, that Bundy was truly evil and never had a shred of remorse for what he'd done. You knew that he'd kill again if given the chance.

My point is that I've seen that look on Jodi in small glimpses every now and then during the trial. They don't come through often, but they are there. IMO she is evil, and if set free, she'd kill again, no doubt about it.

Some people just don't deserve to walk this earth.

MOO
 
Watching the reruns of ALV from earlier today. Just dawns on me how absurd it is that this "expert" witness is sitting in judgement of TA. She states that TA lived a deceptive life - that he lied about being a virgin, was a hypocrite to his faith, tat he dated several women at one time....SO WHAT?! Truthfully it's nobody's business but TA's. I so resent this testimony. It's absurd. Throughout all of her testimony she has proved over and over that Jodi should have gotten the message from TA many times, to go away. She kept coming back and set herself to be used by TA, and orchestrated all the events that lead to her murdering him. she made the whole thing happen. May the jury cut through this hocus-pocus to see the truth. I don't know how TA's family has the strength to sit there everyday and listen to this garbage. Breaks my heart.

Mark Eiglarsh on Dr Drew summed it up perfectly last night. ALV is saying all these things as if they are facts, but all she's doing is regurgitating Jodi's lies under the cover of her credentials as an expert.

Juan would probably be objecting to almost every answer like he did with the emails, but the judge will overrule him 98% of the time on it so he's saving his vitriol for cross. I sure hope the jury is seeing the blatant biases of ALV even before JM starts pointing them out in detail.
 
Is it possible that Jodi could actually have a split personality?

We saw her on the interrogation tapes talking to herself outloud. Could it be possible she was talking to her other self? This whole "Two Thing" is really beyond bizarre.

Perhaps, years ago.

But Smeagol is gone. S/He left -- and will never return.

Only Jodi Ann 'Gollum' Arias remains.
 
Why not respect the judge then? The judge isn't going to dismiss a juror without substantial evidence that misconduct has happened.

Would you feel the same about juror #5 if it did indeed cause a mistrial? I don't think the welcome wagon would be as welcoming for that juror in that instance.

We don't know what happened with Juror #5. We have no clue. We have seen the judge rule on objections we felt she should have ruled the other way. Imagine if we all had to sit, day-after-day on this forum and not comment. Defense wanted her off because they did not like the questions she asked. It could have been another juror asked her if she was the one with the "*advertiser censored*" question. We just do not know. What may have seemed like a comment that was okay to make to her may have seemed reportable by another juror. None of these jurors came forward prior to being asked questions by the judge. They may have felt someone else ratted them out.

Defense wanted a mistrial because JM is getting more attention than the defense attorneys which they feel is bad for their client. There is no JBaez here. Until we hear otherwise I think Juror #5 should be considered another victim of Ms. Jodi. Interestingly last week Jodi was focused on one person in the juror box and was continually making comments to JW about this person. It is possible this juror was the one she was staring out (that would be creepy) and Juror #5 spoke to another juror about it. We really just do not know.

Plus only 2 days of court this week???? The constant "days off" makes it very difficult to keep these types of things from not happening. jmo
 
I don't understand how you can be that emotional in an interview and then never show any emotion during this trial. I don't get it. This is her child who is a murderer.

When you have a child like this, you start mothering "by the book" as I call it. In other words, you are no longer enjoying the mothering but you still love, so you are determined to fulfill your obligations to the best of your ability.

You still say, "Don't hit your brother. You're getting at time out for not respecting your sister's privacy...." etc. But you know in your heart he will do it again and you can't stop him. We teach out children how to behave and they want to please us as little children, they want their Mommy's approval.

But what happens when a child DOESN'T CARE about your approval?

In spite of the lack of reward, we mothers trudge on. They used to call us "refrigerator mothers" if our child was autistic. They are unresponsive, the doctors said, because their mothers are cold.

You know you are n't cold, you know you are a loving mother, you have other children who are normal. But you are out in public with a problem child and people give you dirty looks. Like you haven't taught them or you are somehow responsible that they knocked over the display on purpose and think it's funny.

I have sympathy for her mother because she has endured this stigma all her life. Strangers have also telephoned me reporting that my son did this or that, was acting up, was in trouble, had stolen something, hurt somebody and he should get some professional help. Well he did get professional help and there's nothing anybody could do. So you just thank the person for the phone call and get back to cooking.

You have a life, you have other children. You get used to the fact that one of your children is not normal and you ignore the reactions of other people. That's what her mother is doing--and that wall is very strong because she has had years of torture from this monster. Don't kid yourself, she's been bitten, threatened, punched, tricked, villified, the worst.

I called the police regularly over the marijuana, the stealing of my car, the invasion of my privacy and I could go on for pages-- but here's just one example. He stole my wedding ring and pawned it. I called the police; they said they can do nothing about it because it's my son and told me to "see if I can get him to give it back to me." I marched down to the pawn shop and found it there and called the police and told them where it was. After many of these experience, they offered me a job! Said I was good at law enforcement.

Because that's what mothering becomes when you have a sociopath. You begin to think more of your responsibility to protect innocent bystanders who might not realize that your boy might hurt their child or their pet.

Those who blame Jodi's mother or her aunt because they laughed or because of the expression on their faces? You walk a mile in her moccasins, my friends. Imagine owning and running a restaurant with that daughter in your employ...stealing from the cash register, humping in the pantry, going out to their cars with boys and that's when she's not crying or having an angry tantrum in front of customers. Finally you ban her. What can you do? Now she is raging at you, sneaking out at night and telling the whole town you beat her.

That stoicism you see says this, "My child is a monster and I still love her. I am her mother and I will be here for her, including the day they take her life"
 
I'm so discombobulated this morning. I keep getting lost in several of the forums and have to keep scrolling up to the top to see just where I'm at.:facepalm: and when I try to click on the Smilies list it rejects me. :rocker:

I feel sooooo lost and unwanted :what:
 
One thing dogs are known for is loyalty. You can kick a dog and it will still come back tail wagging. IF this dog ran away over abuse, it was severe or more likely, she killed that dog.

But if you ask her today, the story is probably that it was a male dog who was trying to bite her arm off, she had a flashback to one time when they were playing kind of rough and she got some teethmarks on her arm, and without even intending to she kicked at it before going into a fog.
 
My point is that I've seen that look on Jodi in small glimpses every now and then during the trial. They don't come through often, but they are there. IMO she is evil, and if set free, she'd kill again, no doubt about it.

Some people just don't deserve to walk this earth.

MOO

Snipped and BBM

Yes, Jodi's evil peaked out now and then during Juan's interrogation of her. You can see the real Jodi... the evil one. :furious:
 
I thought Bundy's IQ was only in the 120 range (which is really not very high, about the same as a schoolteacher) and it's a bit of a myth that people with ASPD have a higher IQ, they're across the same range as everybody else, actually, John Douglas says they test lower, probably due to their 'issues' .. which is why they get caught.

I've always felt bad after I've referred to someone as an idiot. What makes it worse, is that I have to admit that I do it often. From now on though, thanks to your post, I can avoid that after-pang of guilt. I'm going to call them "120s".
 
I was wondering?
After watching the interrogation videos. the accounts of the NINJA'S
story?
Could she be placing herself into the stabbing?
What it seems like is that, she places a female NINJA with a mask stabbing him right?
Can someone look and listen to this again?
nowhere does she say the culprit runs into any closet to get any weapons.
Her guilt is obvious in the NINJA story.
So? I would say that the NINJA'S[ JA] story is closest to the truth of how it all went down.
If we eliminate{ NINJA'S]
maybe the order of stabbing is there within that wild account of events?
If someone can substitute [JA] in place of NINJA
we have the truth hidden in there?
 
When you have a child like this, you start mothering "by the book" as I call it. In other words, you are no longer enjoying the mothering but you still love, so you are determined to fulfill your obligations to the best of your ability.

You still say, "Don't hit your brother. You're getting at time out for not respecting your sister's privacy...." etc. But you know in your heart he will do it again and you can't stop him. We teach out children how to behave and they want to please us as little children, they want their Mommy's approval.

But what happens when a child DOESN'T CARE about your approval?

In spite of the lack of reward, we mothers trudge on. They used to call us "refrigerator mothers" if our child was autistic. They are unresponsive, the doctors said, because their mothers are cold.

You know you are n't cold, you know you are a loving mother, you have other children who are normal. But you are out in public with a problem child and people give you dirty looks. Like you haven't taught them or you are somehow responsible that they knocked over the display on purpose and think it's funny.

I have sympathy for her mother because she has endured this stigma all her life. Strangers have also telephoned me reporting that my son did this or that, was acting up, was in trouble, had stolen something, hurt somebody and he should get some professional help. Well he did get professional help and there's nothing anybody could do. So you just thank the person for the phone call and get back to cooking.

You have a life, you have other children. You get used to the fact that one of your children is not normal and you ignore the reactions of other people. That's what her mother is doing--and that wall is very strong because she has had years of torture from this monster. Don't kid yourself, she's been bitten, threatened, punched, tricked, villified, the worst.

I called the police regularly over the marijuana, the stealing of my car, the invasion of my privacy and I could go on for pages-- but here's just one example. He stole my wedding ring and pawned it. I called the police; they said they can do nothing about it because it's my son and told me to "see if I can get him to give it back to me." I marched down to the pawn shop and found it there and called the police and told them where it was. After many of these experience, they offered me a job! Said I was good at law enforcement.

Because that's what mothering becomes when you have a sociopath. You begin to think more of your responsibility to protect innocent bystanders who might not realize that your boy might hurt their child or their pet.

Those who blame Jodi's mother or her aunt because they laughed or because of the expression on their faces? You walk a mile in her moccasins, my friends. Imagine owning and running a restaurant with that daughter in your employ...stealing from the cash register, humping in the pantry, going out to their cars with boys and that's when she's not crying or having an angry tantrum in front of customers. Finally you ban her. What can you do? Now she is raging at you, sneaking out at night and telling the whole town you beat her.

That stoicism you see says this, "My child is a monster and I still love her. I am her mother and I will be here for her, including the day they take her life"

Thank you for putting this in perspective. :seeya: We the public have seen the evil side of JA. Her mother has seen both the evil, and before that the little child in JA, the child who was too young to create havoc, damage the family, etc. Is the mother hanging on to that little child she gave birth to in your opinion?
 
Thank you!

And isn't it interesting that in the matter of a couple of days (well consecutive court days) she manages to try and tarnish the most beautiful blond in the courtroom (Katie DDJ) and then goes after the youngest (I think) most attractive (imo) female juror on the panel.

I think for Nurmi #5 was more of a threat for other reasons, maybe her copious notes and they don't want these jurors to be great historians. But for Jodi i think every attractive female is a threat so she just tosses her lack of control at over controlling all over the place. Imagine if they tossed the one juror who might have been sympathetic toward her though? That would be awesome.

BBM - Perhaps they didn't like the tone of the juror questions (duh) and figured a bunch of them had to be coming from her.
 
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