Trial Discussion Thread #39 - 14.05.14 Day 32

[BritsKate]

Could also be classic denial and not wanting to see the physical damages his actions caused

Truthfully, though my opinion may not be overwhelmingly popular, it could just as easily be malingering or a manipulative ploy. And sometimes, a physiological responce that began initially as a manipulate ploy, becomes an automatic defence mechanism of sorts.

MOO

 

[sleuth-d-]

Could this hurdle have been something to do with the upcoming trial of his brother Carl? That trial was only about a month after that 'hurdle' message of Reeva's .. I'm wondering if OP was pissed off that it would further ruin his own reputation .. and it might also answer the thing about Reeva saying how she understood if he wanted to be with family that evening.

good point, and there were two calls with carl that evening. [one from carl][one to carl].

op could have also been worried about 'losing' carl [part father-replacement/big influence/protector] to the prison system...

 

[supernovaNic]

BIB. I'm sorry to report, "No." :no: :smile:

Nel questioned Dr. V on whether or not she had attended court to hear OPs testimony, she said that she had not. Nel later asked her if she was aware of OPs numerous versions of what he says happened that night. Again she said that she was not. There was another reference to this, maybe two others. So it appears to me that the psych team will be provided with evidence from the trial, and or summaries from both the DT and the PT to use in their evaluation of OP.

This whole 30 day observation seems tailored for those that have confessed to committing murder (or some other serious crime) but want the court to consider some psychiatric issue and diminished capacity in their verdict and sentencing. So it makes perfect sense that the psych team would have the accused's evidence and the prosecution's evidence to use in testing and evaluating the accused.

Afternoon, Viper !!

I think she also mentioned she was given a transcript of the trial, but she did not read it. Maybe I'm wrong. And I think she said because it was inappropriate? Do you remember that part? My memory compared to most of you guys is poor.

I wonder if the psychiatrists will also deem it 'inappropriate' to read?

 

[Viper]

Just a quick addition to my last post .. I've seen it mentioned on a few things I've read since yesterday (I think they were online media articles linked to on here, don't think anyone has actually said it in their posts) that the 30 day referral is for 'treatment' .. I'm not aware that it's actually the case that this will be treatment, my understanding is that it is purely an assessment. Am I right?

OP will soon be remainded in to the hospital under the care of those three psychiatrists. If they see him having emotional issues, anxiety issues, or other physical or mental issues that can be treated with medication or therapy, they will prescribe the appropriate medication or therapy to help him improve or manage.

So he will be evaluated, but he will also receive treatment if it is necessary, just to help him.

 

[atthelake]

My one shamelessly off topic post of the day...if you'll indulge me.


My husband stopped following trials with me after a few surprising outcomes - the Anthony acquittal being the last. He thinks he's bad luck for cases I follow, knows we both blame him for outcomes I don't foresee, and actually wishes to see old age. :biggrin:

If trial watching becomes a full time hobby for you (lots of new posters leave us posttrial ), you'll find attorneys both sides of every conceivable personality and aptitude. It really can prove fascinating.

I've literally been lulled to sleep by a prosecutor with the personality of a wall while another I still reference as 'one of the best' even though she's long since retired from practice. I admire Martinez, Ashton, Distaso and many others but Nel is my first crush ever - at least on a prosecutor.

This trial, in particular, has gifted us who have been here awhile with some amazing new posters (like yourself) sharing their insights - I for one really hope all of you stay on once this trial's concluded. I tend to get a bit nostalgic towards the end of a trial too - fair warning this is likely not to be the last post encouraging you to stay. It's always a bit sad when a trial ends and everybody goes different directions after posting together, daily, for months on end.

Fortunately, I get an unexpected grace period.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

Awwwww. I still keep in touch with some posters from Caylee's trial still on occasion. And about 7 others from the Jodi trial which I met in chat *downstairs* (not on this site, but the serenity #websleuths chatroom) whom I *chat* with, as of today, daily. And one here also on this thread that used to chat with us during the Jodi trial that I just reconnected with during this trial :seeya:

 

[lithgow1]

Someone just made a good point on my 'lurker' forum that it is interesting that Roux, who would have gotten to know him well over the past year, fought tooth and nail to avoid this referral. I know some think it was a double bluff but he could have pulled that off without being so impassioned. Maybe he knows that OP is a BS artist.

 

[supernovaNic]

Was Oscar asked before testifying if he had taken any medication within the last few days that would affect his testimony? I find it hard to believe with him having a psychologist, and with him vomiting and all that nonsense, that he's wasn't put on some sort of anxiety medication during trial, if not before.

ETA: I know psychologists don't prescribe meds, but surely she would have had him see a psychiatrist to see if he needed to be on meds.

 

[Lochlynsmom]

Yes and don't you think it would be more fair?

This is how they do it in SA fair or not. It is different from US law, you kinda need to accept it. Personally I find the fact the lawyers can think so well on their feet, put the case together with just the evidence they have and then tie it together at the end extremely interesting. :loveyou:

 

[lithgow1]

Awwwww. I still keep in touch with some posters from Caylee's trial still on occasion. And about 7 others from the Jodi trial which I met in chat *downstairs* (not on this site, but the serenity #websleuths chatroom) whom I *chat* with, as of today, daily. And one here also on this thread that used to chat with us during the Jodi trial that I just reconnected with during this trial :seeya:

Quick OT question atthelake and BritsKate - <modsnip>

 

[jilly]

She did say that. Here is a quote for you to read.

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2014-05-14-pistorius-trial-week-8-day-3/#.U3OmZfmSySp

“The aim of referral is not to punish the accused twice,” Masipa said – prompting inevitable speculation about whether she definitely intended to punish him once. “So if there is a possibility of the accused being an out-patient, that would be preferable.”

So we won't know for sure until tomorrow whether he'll be an out patient. In that video interview posted above, it was said that assessment is done on a 24-7 basis and is important for a full report. I hope those in charge of the facility, voice this to the Judge.

 

[Zuri]

I see this quite differently but chose your post since we've so often agreed in the past. I've really missed your input.

I think Oscar likes power and control. I believe he enjoys others being fearful of him. I find him to be egocentric, narcissistic, selfish, with a sense of entitlement, manipulative and callous. I think he's reckless, impulsive, and aggressive.

To me hypervigilance is disproven by the following:

- leaving his firearm unattended and out of sight.
- not fixing the broken window in his home.
- not closing the balcony doors.
- not fixing the lock on his bedroom door.
- not knowing if his alarm sensors were functioning properly.
- not having a prolific history of other incidents involving contacting security or police to express concerns over security issues.
- not securing ladders on his property.
- leaving his vehicle in the driveway overnight.

As to vulnerability, insecurity, and anxiety...I really struggle to reconcile that with careless disregard for others and how much he was able to accomplish. In fact, I just can't reconcile it. Believe me, I've tried. Further, the only evidence to support such comes directly from the accused and I don't believe his account <modsnip>

JMO

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

As always, you are the voice of reason! :loveyou: I withdraw my thoughts of possible PTSD in view of that you have posted. I am so hypervigilent to the point of annoying my young adult children with my constant risk assessment about everything. His reaction to the photos of Reeva and her autopsy made me first wonder whether he had PTSD, but I may have personalized that one. I had not seen the photo of Reeva with her head wound until this past weekend on here. That triggered me big time as my brother suffered a similar wound and I have not slept well since then. You just never know what the triggers will be.

Thank you for you thoughtful and insightful posts. I always learn so much from them. Xo

 

[Viper]

Afternoon, Viper !!

I think she also mentioned she was given a transcript of the trial, but she did not read it. Maybe I'm wrong. And I think she said because it was inappropriate? Do you remember that part? My memory compared to most of you guys is poor.

I wonder if the psychiatrists will also deem it 'inappropriate' to read?

Hi Super!

My memory is not any better than yours, we all seem to grab the bits that are most important to us at the time and hold on to them. It makes the conversation rough here sometimes! LOL!

You are correct! Thank you so much! That is the 3rd point that I could not recall when I was writing my reply. Dr. V said that Roux gave her a transcript.

Nel was humored by the fact that Dr. V was doing a Sergent Schultz routine regarding not using anything other that OPs version for her evaluation.

 

[Gryffindor]

So we won't know for sure until tomorrow whether he'll be an out patient. In that video interview posted above, it was said that assessment is done on a 24-7 basis and is important for a full report. I hope those in charge of the facility, voice this to the Judge.

Not tomorrow though. Next Tuesday.

 

[supernovaNic]

So we won't know for sure until tomorrow whether he'll be an out patient. In that video interview posted above, it was said that assessment is done on a 24-7 basis and is important for a full report. I hope those in charge of the facility, voice this to the Judge.

I think we won't know until next Tuesday, the 20th. Someone please correct me if this is wrong.

 

[supernovaNic]

Not tomorrow though. Next Tuesday.

Lol, oh well.

 

[Hope4More]

Which trial was it H4M? It sounds like an interesting book. Have you ever read George Orwell's Decline of the English Murder essay? That's a good short read and he paints an evocative picture of an Englishman, full of roast beef and contentment after Sunday lunch, relaxing by the fire with a cup of tea and opening the newspaper to read about the latest sensational murder.

PS Not much has changed really has it. Remember when it turned out Mr Dixon was more media savvy than he said and people were worried about does Nel know this, someone should email him etc.

The victim was a 3 year old boy named Seville Kent. Won't tell you who murdered him in case you want to read the book..." The Suspicions of Mr. Whicher" by Kate Summerscale. It's a non fiction book but it reads like a who-done-it mystery. She takes many pages- long detours into historical trivia but I liked the book very much as a whole.

Haven't read that Orwell piece, but will look it up. Sounds jolly.
Thanks!

 

[jilly]

I think we won't know until next Tuesday, the 20th. Someone please correct me if this is wrong.

Ohhhhh!:blushing: Thank you!

 

[whiterum]

BRBM What other options for dx did you consider but discounted? NPD? or others?

Nel's cross of OP shows clearly that he has a strong suspicion as to the true personality of OP and has I'm sure come across his type many times as a prosecutor. Nel repeatedly made the point that 'everything is about you' it's always 'me, me, me etc, IMO highlighting that he believes him to be a selfish, arrogant and narcissistic individual.

 

[jilly]

OP will soon be remainded in to the hospital under the care of those three psychiatrists. If they see him having emotional issues, anxiety issues, or other physical or mental issues that can be treated with medication or therapy, they will prescribe the appropriate medication or therapy to help him improve or manage.

So he will be evaluated, but he will also receive treatment if it is necessary, just to help him.

Do you have a link for that please?

 

[jay-jay]

Could this hurdle have been something to do with the upcoming trial of his brother Carl? That trial was only about a month after that 'hurdle' message of Reeva's .. I'm wondering if OP was pissed off that it would further ruin his own reputation .. and it might also answer the thing about Reeva saying how she understood if he wanted to be with family that evening.

I should've been more specific about that .. it was announced on the 24th February 2013 that he was stand trial for the homicide of a woman http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21563911 .. so maybe it was only confirmed to the family a couple of weeks before that (i.e. around the same time as this 'hurdle' thing)?