Trial Discussion Thread #43 - 14.06.30 Day 33

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
lisasalinger said:
A "cul de sac" is a dead end street... so he's making the statement that if it's a dead end, it's a dead end, and not much you can do about it, but it should at least be investigated.

With that said... I'm just getting caught up on today and this whole exchange with Roux, Nel and the Judge really pissed me off. The cord was not a seized piece of evidence, so how can the state be in 100% control of it when Oscar admittedly (through witnesses on the stand) had people such as Dixon, Wolmarans, etc going back and forth to the house, collecting his personal belongings while doing various testing. Not to mention his sister and Carice's handy work.

It's impossible to catalog 100% of every single item in a home. At the time, the police likely did not know the significance of that cord, although they did photograph it on the day of the incident. I'm sure it became apparent after the bail application which was a week later, but the defense had taken control of the scene just 3 days after the incident. How is it fair to hold the State accountable for every single item in that home when they only had total control of it for such a short window of time?

Maybe somebody can tell me if I'm being unreasonable and I'll listen, but this all seemed like a load of BS to me.

Also... start listening at 41:40... Nel starts to say to the Judge "a lot of things happened" and she cuts him off and says "it doesn't assist to go on and on about that"... They were very vague here.

Do you think Nel was making reference to the stolen phone and stolen purse? If that's the case, then maybe the Judge is kind of saying to him hey, you need to keep your own things in order before ragging on their misdeeds. Or, maybe she's just trying to appease Roux. Who knows. Just curious if anybody else wondered about that.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting inference, I wonder if that is what this was all about. It sure would be nice to find out.
 
We know the meeting OP had on the morning of the 13th was important but I believe it was of far greater significance than originally thought and quite possibly the original event that triggered his state of mind for the events that subsequently unfolded.

OP testified “I had to leave Pretoria early to skip the traffic. I couldn’t be late for this meeting. There were many people involved”. Who were all these people? One of Reeva’s whatsapp messages wished him well for the meeting he was going to have with his financial advisor. It was important to the point where he left home very early to skip the traffic and yet still managed to reach Jo’burg at least an hour early and this enabled him to have a coffee with a friend. Could it be that he was about to lose a major sponsor and the financial advisor was going to speak to him following the meeting? Reeva said in a later whatsapp message “It’s a difficult thing to try to console you baba because it’s a ****** thing and you’re a nice guy. I guess these things happen and we can just hope they work out for the best. You are an amazing person with so many blessings and you are more than cared for. Your health and future monetary blessings far outweigh this hurdle I can promise u that”. In yet another whatsapp message she says “Thank you baba. Let me know if you’d like to spend time with M or Carl. I’m sure you maybe feel like some family tonight.” Obviously something had gone seriously wrong at this meeting.
 
Val1 said:
bbm - My question is, which bathroom did they brush their teeth in? Don't forget the evidence that showed that someone had done this in a "spare" room.

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/14/oscar-pistorius-trial-days-9-and-10-crime-scene-photos/
Click to expand...

In my opinion, it was implied in Oscar's testimony that they brushed their teeth in his bedroom suite. He talked in detail about how when he arrived at the sink (after being summoned), Reeva finished and went to get in bed. It sounded to me like they were right there in the bedroom. (I laugh when I think about this testimony, so ridiculous!) Hey Oscar... come brush your teeth my baba angel :facepalm:

Nobody ever followed up (Nel or Roux) on Van Rensburg's evidence that there was apparently somebody staying in the 2nd guest bedroom (the one furthest away from the master suite).
 
I love little details.

When OP arrived home shortly after 6pm, Reeva was preparing dinner. He chatted to her for a short time while looking at cars on his iPad, then went upstairs, “showered” and changed into his pyjamas. He went downstairs about 7pm. Roux interrupts him at this point to clarify his use of the iPad. OP then says he went upstairs and was on his iPad while “drawing the bath”. Yesterday Dr Versfeld testified that OP had told him “I bath rather than shower because I can’t stand long. I have a bench in my shower. I can’t stand and wash myself”. In the attached link you can see just about the entire shower and there is no bench in it, nor anywhere else in the bathroom.
http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2014/03/17/oscar-pistorius-crime-scene-photos-murder-trial

This appears to be yet another discrepancy in his story and an example of tailoring his disabilities to Dr Versfeld.
 
It was a very hot day. Reeva had done washing, worked on one of her contracts and gone out shopping for things for dinner. She arrived back in the home 10 minutes before OP and when he arrived was already preparing dinner, so just enough time to get changed basically. Later, according to OP, Reeva did yoga exercises but her yoga mat was not in the bedroom but located at the top of the stairs somewhere. The bedroom was very humid so OP opened the balcony doors. At no time either in chief or cross-examination did he ever mention that Reeva had either a shower or bath. Since OP is so particular about little details, I find this more than a little odd.
 
Reeva had changed into a pair of OP’s shorts and a sleeveless top. For a couple in the early stages of a relationship, it being Valentine’s Day and it being a very warm, humid night, I find that very odd attire to wear to bed. I don’t believe she went to bed at all.

OP testified he was wearing “training shorts, basketball shorts” when he went to bed. I don’t believe he went to bed wearing the shorts he was photographed in after the murder. These were very large and appeared to be made from a heavy coarse fabric and did not have a waistband normally seen on basketball shorts. For many, many years now basketball shorts have been made in either 100% polyester or a cotton, polyester, spandex blend and are very soft and loose. All Nike (his major sponsor) basketball shorts are 100% polyester. I haven’t seen one photo of OP wearing basketball shorts and in every training photo I’ve seen he was wearing bodyfitting shorts more like the type cyclists wear. I don’t believe he went to bed at all.
 
Judgejudi said:
<Respectfully snipped>

I'm just waiting for the acoustics expert, Lin, say that Michelle Burger and her husband Charl Johnson (who live approx. 170m away) couldn't have heard the screams. If he does, how could it be that they both woke to the sound of screaming at approx. 3am, heard a woman scream for help followed by a man screaming for help 3 times, more screaming and then 4 gunshots with a pause between the 1st and 2nd shot. Will Roux say they were asleep and dreaming? Unfortunately for OP this then became his nightmare. Dream on Barry.

Burger and Johnson had no way of knowing that their timeline and what they heard coincides with that of the other ear witnesses. Lin conducted his tests up to 177m away.
Click to expand...

The DT has accepted since the beginning that the ear witnesses did hear the screams, but they've maintained that the screams came from OP. I think Lin's testimony regarding the sound at 170m away being inaudible is supposed to support that claim. But inaudible only suggests one could not clearly hear specific words spoken, not that they didn't hear any sound at all. That's not the issue here. The issue is who made those blood curdling screams. All the witnesses said they came from a woman. OP said they came from him.

It's all pretty pointless IMO because the tests were conducted after other homes were built, and more importantly a true sound test would have the two subjects scream in the same area of the house as they did that night. Reeva can't demonstrate how she screams because OP executed her. So milady can either believe the four independent ear witnesses who have no dog in this fight, or she can believe this sound expert who demonstrated measurements of whispers and keyboard clicks in the courtroom.
 
lisasalinger said:
In my opinion, it was implied in Oscar's testimony that they brushed their teeth in his bedroom suite. He talked in detail about how when he arrived at the sink (after being summoned), Reeva finished and went to get in bed. It sounded to me like they were right there in the bedroom. (I laugh when I think about this testimony, so ridiculous!) Hey Oscar... come brush your teeth my baba angel :facepalm:

Nobody ever followed up (Nel or Roux) on Van Rensburg's evidence that there was apparently somebody staying in the 2nd guest bedroom (the one furthest away from the master suite).
Click to expand...

That is how I remember the evidence. I also vaguely recall reading that OP had a friend stay over a short while before the fateful event. Maybe it was he who left the toothbrush. I don't think Reeva stayed there as much as many people assume.
 
lisasalinger said:
Was that The Today Show? I saw it this morning and heard the same thing. I thought, no way is that possible. The Today Show typically has some very fluffy reporting. But on the off chance that they are correct, I would gladly take a verdict in the next few weeks.
Click to expand...

No, it wasn't The Today Show, but it was NBC. It was the local news, but they had another NBC reporter via satellite reporting from in front of the courthouse. If The Today Show reported the same, that must be the info someone from the court giving to the media?
 
They usually watched TV downstairs after dinner but as they&#8217;d both had a taxing day, they decided to go upstairs. He helped her with the plates. He went back upstairs and she joined him a couple of minutes later. He entered the bedroom about 8pm and opened the balcony doors as the AC wasn&#8217;t working and positioned the two fans between the doors. He closed the doors in line with the fans because there&#8217;s a light on the balcony which attracts insects. The fans pull the cool air into the room. He drew the blinds and blackout curtains which were draped around the standing fan. Along the top of the curtain rail you can see a bit of light if the curtains are drawn. He drew the curtains which were around the fans and &#8220;probably left the blinds as they were&#8221;. You could see a bit of light where the top fan was but very little in the room.

I have blackout curtains and an identical looking fan so I conducted my own test. I don&#8217;t believe his story for several reasons. Firstly, in order for the fan to draw cool air in, the curtains cannot be draped around the fan and exclude the light as well. The full width of the round part of the fan must be exposed, but this would allow light to pour in from the top to the bottom of the curtains. Secondly, if you lift the curtains and drape them over the motor part enough to exclude light, they fall down because blackout curtains are heavy. Thirdly, if you lift them up so high as to have the bulk of the weight over the motor part, light pours in from underneath the round part of the fan down to the floor. The crime scene photos show the curtains open and I believe they were open during the night.
 
Judgejudi said:
Reeva had changed into a pair of OP’s shorts and a sleeveless top. For a couple in the early stages of a relationship, it being Valentine’s Day and it being a very warm, humid night, I find that very odd attire to wear to bed. I don’t believe she went to bed at all.

OP testified he was wearing “training shorts, basketball shorts” when he went to bed. I don’t believe he went to bed wearing the shorts he was photographed in after the murder. These were very large and appeared to be made from a heavy coarse fabric and did not have a waistband normally seen on basketball shorts. For many, many years now basketball shorts have been made in either 100% polyester or a cotton, polyester, spandex blend and are very soft and loose. All Nike (his major sponsor) basketball shorts are 100% polyester. I haven’t seen one photo of OP wearing basketball shorts and in every training photo I’ve seen he was wearing bodyfitting shorts more like the type cyclists wear. I don’t believe he went to bed at all.
Click to expand...


I thought it odd too because they could trip him up if he was not wearing his prosthetics ::Look at the first photo, if he was on stumps leaning to compensate for his dodgy pad he would not be able to run around negotiating duvee's, cables and obstacles.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/13/article-2579854-1C43058800000578-86_634x412.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/14/article-2580764-1C4B5EEE00000578-231_634x426.jpg

I think he had his legs on all through the fight and murder and took a knee to aim in the bathroom. I also believe bat,gun and kick order of events.
(Reeva deserves justice.)
 
Judgejudi said:
They usually watched TV downstairs after dinner but as they’d both had a taxing day, they decided to go upstairs. He helped her with the plates. He went back upstairs and she joined him a couple of minutes later. He entered the bedroom about 8pm and opened the balcony doors as the AC wasn’t working and positioned the two fans between the doors. He closed the doors in line with the fans because there’s a light on the balcony which attracts insects. The fans pull the cool air into the room. He drew the blinds and blackout curtains which were draped around the standing fan. Along the top of the curtain rail you can see a bit of light if the curtains are drawn. He drew the curtains which were around the fans and “probably left the blinds as they were”. You could see a bit of light where the top fan was but very little in the room.

I have blackout curtains and an identical looking fan so I conducted my own test. I don’t believe his story for several reasons. Firstly, in order for the fan to draw cool air in, the curtains cannot be draped around the fan and exclude the light as well. The full width of the round part of the fan must be exposed, but this would allow light to pour in from the top to the bottom of the curtains. Secondly, if you lift the curtains and drape them over the motor part enough to exclude light, they fall down because blackout curtains are heavy. Thirdly, if you lift them up so high as to have the bulk of the weight over the motor part, light pours in from underneath the round part of the fan down to the floor. The crime scene photos show the curtains open and I believe they were open during the night.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the moving fan blades would tend to suck the curtains against the back of the fan if they were draped anywhere on the fan.

Thanks, really appreicate your details posts.
 
Judgejudi said:
They usually watched TV downstairs after dinner but as they’d both had a taxing day, they decided to go upstairs. He helped her with the plates. He went back upstairs and she joined him a couple of minutes later. He entered the bedroom about 8pm and opened the balcony doors as the AC wasn’t working and positioned the two fans between the doors. He closed the doors in line with the fans because there’s a light on the balcony which attracts insects. The fans pull the cool air into the room. He drew the blinds and blackout curtains which were draped around the standing fan. Along the top of the curtain rail you can see a bit of light if the curtains are drawn. He drew the curtains which were around the fans and “probably left the blinds as they were”. You could see a bit of light where the top fan was but very little in the room.

I have blackout curtains and an identical looking fan so I conducted my own test. I don’t believe his story for several reasons. Firstly, in order for the fan to draw cool air in, the curtains cannot be draped around the fan and exclude the light as well. The full width of the round part of the fan must be exposed, but this would allow light to pour in from the top to the bottom of the curtains. Secondly, if you lift the curtains and drape them over the motor part enough to exclude light, they fall down because blackout curtains are heavy. Thirdly, if you lift them up so high as to have the bulk of the weight over the motor part, light pours in from underneath the round part of the fan down to the floor. The crime scene photos show the curtains open and I believe they were open during the night.
Click to expand...

Exactly! OP's story about the fans was twaddle. We know the balcony light was on. There is no way the bedroom was in total darkness. Why on earth did Nel not quiz OP with respect to this evidence?
 
Ugh. Totally missed the reconvening of the trial!
 
808 said:
I thought it odd too because they could trip him up if he was not wearing his prosthetics ::Look at the first photo, if he was on stumps leaning to compensate for his dodgy pad he would not be able to run around negotiating duvee's, cables and obstacles.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/13/article-2579854-1C43058800000578-86_634x412.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/14/article-2580764-1C4B5EEE00000578-231_634x426.jpg

I think he had his legs on all through the fight and murder and took a knee to aim in the bathroom. I also believe bat,gun and kick order of events.
(Reeva deserves justice.)
Click to expand...

And if he was on his knees, he was setting up a defence before he even fired!
 
minor4th said:
I am trying to hit some highlights right now before court starts again
Click to expand...

You could probably miss out most of the sound guy's evidence and cut to his summary right at the end (perhaps catch up with the rest later). I am sure you will want to spend more time on the doc's evidence.
 
Good morning to all WS'!

Here it is 09:21am. After following Baden-Clay trial (with coffee, croissant and cigarettes) I now have to follow Oscar's case (with another coffee, crispbread -Knäckebrot- and still cigarettes).

What will the day on trial bring us?
 
FromGermany said:
Good morning to all WS'!

Here it is 09:21am. After following Baden-Clay trial (with coffee, croissant and cigarettes) I now have to follow Oscar's case (with another coffee, crispbread -Knäckebrot- and still cigarettes).

What will the day on trial bring us?
Click to expand...
Hello there FromGermany we've had a full day haven't we? Baden-Clay now Oscar. There is a similarity I believe, they both have narcissistic personalities don't you think?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 206 more.
Total: 3,673 (members: 207, guests: 3,466)

Online statistics

Members online
207
Guests online
3,466
Total visitors
3,673
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,649
Messages
17,972,511
Members
228,852
Latest member
janisjoplin
Back
Top