TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #5

[lightofmine99]

INB4 we find out that one of, if not all of, the Daybell kids on the witness list have intentionally watched the trial so they can't testify.

MOO. MOO.

 

[indicolite22]

Interesting thoughts but do you think she and Alex wouldn't have murdered Charles if she hadn't met Chad? Also, did Chad ever even meet Tylee?

Alex and Charles reportedly got along well before all this started. Alex also asked Lori before killing Charles if zombie possessions were reversible, like he wanted to make sure there was no other way.
Lori and Charles were arguing about their lack of finances and interestingly so were Tammy and Chad. Money was a big motivator in this case.

 

[lightofmine99]

Also, did Chad ever even meet Tylee?

Chad made a statement to the Gilberts (his neighbors) implying that he had. It was something like, paraphrased: "She [Tylee] never liked me."

 

[Ruminations]

INB4 we find out that one of, if not all of, the Daybell kids on the witness list have intentionally watched the trial so they can't testify.

MOO. MOO.

No worries. The kids are not subject to the exclusionary rule. They could sit in the gallery for the entire trial if they wanted, and still testify.

Like Kay and Samantha, for example.

MOO

Edit: Clearer word order

 

[wnk]

I think Prior looked angry at Chad today, partly because he was sitting apart but talking to him more.

The weird thing is, though... I had the same impression. Prior definitely seemed more distant from CD today. And yet when I overlaid the footage from today and Day 5 (the first day that the cameras were at this angle), they're actually in almost exactly the same positions.


And yet, there was something about his body language that made him seem like he was distancing himself. Like he just wasn't as engaged.

Prior was different today.

Complete speculation, but this is my theory. He was bluffing all along about the kids testifying, and today he learned the prosecution is really going to call Garth, Emma or Leah. And Prior knows it will go badly.

Priors only chance on the Tammy charges was to make the jury believe Chads own kids think he is innocent. But once one takes the stand, it's over. They will either crack a bit, come out with honest unfavorable facts, or come off as proof of Chads control over others. Or any combination.

MOO

I went back to the opening statements and HERE (2:20:08), Prior states, "You're going to hear testimony from the Daybell children... from the children themselves... Four of the five children... Three or four of the five children... They're going to talk about their mother's health struggles. They're going to talk about their mother's use of various medicinal treatments that she would use... oils that she would put on her legs... medicine and... and different herbs that she would take, and that her mother was suffering-- that their mother was suffering from a number of maladies and that she would refuse to go see a doctor or get it treated."

With that in mind, I'm going to jump off your theory and present a theory of my own...

Prior implied in his opening statement that all the Daybell children (okay, maybe 4... okay, maybe 3...) would be testifying for the defense. And from early on, he was questioning witnesses specifically about Emma and Garth, trying to set them up as reliable witnesses. (I suspect the 3rd "Daybell child" that would testify might in fact be Emma's husband, Joseph). On Garth specifically:

On day 3:
Prior asks about Kaaiakamanu interviewing Garth Daybell, Chad’s son. Kaaiakamanu says he interviewed Garth one time at the Rexburg Police Department. Kaaiakamanu says he also went to the school where Garth teaches with an FBI special agent. Prior asks how long Garth was at RPD for the interview. Kaaiakamanu says for a few hours. They got him McDonald’s and a soda. Garth asked for an attorney and the lawyer showed up. Prior asks Kaaiakamanu is reviewed videotape of Chad and Emma from June 9. Kaaiakamanu has not. (SOURCE)

On day 10:
Prior: “Did you talk to Garth about how he bought her (Tammy) a Quarter Pounder and french fries?” (SOURCE)

On day 11:
Prior says an AR, even with a suppressor, would make a noise loud enough for Chad and Garth to hear inside the house. Kaaiakamanu says it depends on the type of round used. (SOURCE)

On day 12:
Prior suggests Garth and Tammy were particularly close. Shultz says he can’t testify to that but says Tammy was a great mother to all of her children. (SOURCE)

On day 14:
Prior asks who was living in the home at the time of Tammy’s passing. Gilbert says Garth was and perhaps Seth was. (SOURCE)

And yet... at some point after those first 14 days, Prior seems to have stopped asking about Garth, even though he still presses the issue of how close Tammy & Emma were. This was right around the time that Prior started pressing the issue of how many stairs were in the Daybell house and where the stairs were.

My theory, then, is that Prior was expecting Garth to testify but parts of Garth's story (or the story CD told Garth) are falling apart. Maybe Garth was watching the testimony, realized this, and decided he couldn't "follow the prophet" (ie his father), because to do so, he'd have to perjure himself. I'd guess that the stairs somehow have something to do with Garth's testimony -- especially since Heather Daybell mentioned that Garth was sleeping in the Cozy Cone at the time.

At any rate, now Prior's seeing the State's witnesses wrapping up and is still in the process of re-thinking his own Defense strategy, knowing he can no longer count on Garth as a "star" witness.

 

[indicolite22]

Perhaps JP is just tired by now and is conserving energy. This is probably his longest trial.

 

[alexwood]

John Prior knows CD is a lost cause. (IMO)

 

[Ruminations]

The weird thing is, though... I had the same impression. Prior definitely seemed more distant from CD today. And yet when I overlaid the footage from today and Day 5 (the first day that the cameras were at this angle), they're actually in almost exactly the same positions.

View attachment 503400
And yet, there was something about his body language that made him seem like he was distancing himself. Like he just wasn't as engaged.

I went back to the opening statements and HERE (2:20:08), Prior states, "You're going to hear testimony from the Daybell children... from the children themselves... Four of the five children... Three or four of the five children... They're going to talk about their mother's health struggles. They're going to talk about their mother's use of various medicinal treatments that she would use... oils that she would put on her legs... medicine and... and different herbs that she would take, and that her mother was suffering-- that their mother was suffering from a number of maladies and that she would refuse to go see a doctor or get it treated."

With that in mind, I'm going to jump off your theory and present a theory of my own...

Prior implied in his opening statement that all the Daybell children (okay, maybe 4... okay, maybe 3...) would be testifying for the defense. And from early on, he was questioning witnesses specifically about Emma and Garth, trying to set them up as reliable witnesses. (I suspect the 3rd "Daybell child" that would testify might in fact be Emma's husband, Joseph). On Garth specifically:

On day 3:
Prior asks about Kaaiakamanu interviewing Garth Daybell, Chad’s son. Kaaiakamanu says he interviewed Garth one time at the Rexburg Police Department. Kaaiakamanu says he also went to the school where Garth teaches with an FBI special agent. Prior asks how long Garth was at RPD for the interview. Kaaiakamanu says for a few hours. They got him McDonald’s and a soda. Garth asked for an attorney and the lawyer showed up. Prior asks Kaaiakamanu is reviewed videotape of Chad and Emma from June 9. Kaaiakamanu has not. (SOURCE)

On day 10:
Prior: “Did you talk to Garth about how he bought her (Tammy) a Quarter Pounder and french fries?” (SOURCE)

On day 11:
Prior says an AR, even with a suppressor, would make a noise loud enough for Chad and Garth to hear inside the house. Kaaiakamanu says it depends on the type of round used. (SOURCE)

On day 12:
Prior suggests Garth and Tammy were particularly close. Shultz says he can’t testify to that but says Tammy was a great mother to all of her children. (SOURCE)

On day 14:
Prior asks who was living in the home at the time of Tammy’s passing. Gilbert says Garth was and perhaps Seth was. (SOURCE)

And yet... at some point after those first 14 days, Prior seems to have stopped asking about Garth, even though he still presses the issue of how close Tammy & Emma were. This was right around the time that Prior started pressing the issue of how many stairs were in the Daybell house and where the stairs were.

My theory, then, is that Prior was expecting Garth to testify but parts of Garth's story (or the story CD told Garth) are falling apart. Maybe Garth was watching the testimony, realized this, and decided he couldn't "follow the prophet" (ie his father), because to do so, he'd have to perjure himself. I'd guess that the stairs somehow have something to do with Garth's testimony -- especially since Heather Daybell mentioned that Garth was sleeping in the Cozy Cone at the time.

At any rate, now Prior's seeing the State's witnesses wrapping up and is still in the process of re-thinking his own Defense strategy, knowing he can no longer count on Garth as a "star" witness.

Wow, what an analysis!

Good point that Prior stopped mentioning Garth in his testimonial questions.

I don't know if Seth was living at that home when Tammy was murdered.

A lot of people have the (reasonable) theory that Chad and Tammy had separate bedrooms already. Thus Garth said on 48 hours that he ran to his mother's room. They tend to believe that Chad was in the cozy cone. He certainly was sleeping there on the day the kids were recovered. On the other hand, if people are sharing a room I'd call it x's or y's room in certain instances, and not always x&y's room. There are so many possibilities about who was sleeping where.

Interesting that objectively, there is not a difference in the distance between Prior and Chad. Because it really looks like they were more apart to me, somehow.

MOO

 

[nodamselindistress]

John Prior knows CD is a lost cause. (IMO)

I think so too. He knows his goose is cooked, no matter how many paid for experts he puts up there.

 

[alexwood]

Interesting thoughts but do you think she and Alex wouldn't have murdered Charles if she hadn't met Chad? Also, did Chad ever even meet Tylee?

I absolutely, 100%, believe that Charles Vallow would still be alive today if LV had never met Chad Daybell. She wanted him, didn't want to be married to Charles Vallow anymore -- but wanted his life insurance money -- did not want Tylee or JJ any longer. CD gave her the perfect "excuse" to get rid of all of them -- including Alex Cox.

 

[alexwood]

Agreed. This was limited to CD's followers, none of whom had professional degrees, and, INMO, based on their testimonies, they did not appear to be MENSA candidates. Forgive me if this is judgemental. Nor do I see them as "victims". JJ and Tylee are the victims here.

Did Chad Daybell ever finish college?

 

[nodamselindistress]

Did Chad Daybell ever finish college?

Good question, I bet @aafromaa knows, she is great with historical aspects of this case.

I think he did, I think Tammy quit college and got a job to support them so he could graduate to become .... a sexton/grave digger?

 

[mickey2942]

Good question, I bet @aafromaa knows, she is great with historical aspects of this case.

I think he did, I think Tammy quit college and got a job to support them so he could graduate to become .... a sexton/grave digger?

Yes, CD graduated BYU with a degree in Communications.

 

[sassyblue]

Thank you. I missed that announcement.

I'm not sure there was an announcement today but he has testified before and was also off camera then. So you most likely did not miss an announcement.

He's a special agent doing CAST work for the FBI and apparently doesn't want his face out in the general public.

 

[sassyblue]

No cross from JP, wowza.

ETA: Witnesses went more quickly than expected today, next State witness tomorrow morning. Court over early today.

Yeah so very strange.

Prior was way off his game today.

 

[mickey2942]

I believe she was killed on Chads property and buried there. Well, dismembered then thrown in a grave and burned. They likely missed a bone when they were gathering up her flesh. Chad disgusts me.

Based on the gruesome testimony today by the forensic specialist, Tylee was "over killed" dismembered, burned, using a variety of garden tools, ice picks, other items. The picture of someone doing that to another person, is abhorrent. Inhumane. After this testimony, I don't see any hurdles to the DP. It was depraved.

 

[nodamselindistress]

Based on the gruesome testimony today by the forensic specialist, Tylee was "over killed" dismembered, burned, using a variety of garden tools, ice picks, other items. The picture of someone doing that to another person, is abhorrent. Inhumane. After this testimony, I don't see any hurdles to the DP. It was depraved.

I became physically ill when she described what happened to her pelvic area. There is something really weird there and I do not want to know what it was.

 

[sassyblue]

Based on the gruesome testimony today by the forensic specialist, Tylee was "over killed" dismembered, burned, using a variety of garden tools, ice picks, other items. The picture of someone doing that to another person, is abhorrent. Inhumane. After this testimony, I don't see any hurdles to the DP. It was depraved.

Yes, over the top frenzied stabbings and blunt force trauma and fire.

Who hates young women? And in particular that young woman.

Lori, Alex and Chad. They all have reasons.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Interesting thoughts but do you think she and Alex wouldn't have murdered Charles if she hadn't met Chad? Also, did Chad ever even meet Tylee?

Yes Chad met Tylee. He told his friend that Tylee did not like him. His friend asked about Tylee and her being missing and Chad said “She didn’t like me anyway”. Past tense.
Chad was a grave digger. How do we know he hadn’t killed before. He fantasized about death. As for Charles, I believe Lori had used him up, spent all his money, and would have killed him on her own, with her helper. I believe she killed Joe Ryan.
I said I believe Chad to be a serial killer. It’s possible Lori is too. Chad is the one though with disdain for women. Him being against Tylee is why I think he was the one who attacked her pelvis with a pick axe.

 

[Love Never Fails]

My perception is that Emma and Seth are the most thoroughly indoctrinated. Garth was a grand jury witness. We don't know what he said there. But we do know he was willing to split from Chad a bit to be Tammy's lookout for when she wasn't following orders. Leah had defended Chad vigorously in the past, but she lives far away. She also (my opinion only) seemed the most capable of honestly expressing emotions on the 48 hours interview. That whole family is so flat....it's obviously an expectation NOT to express emotions. But Leah emoted even back in that 48 hours interview. If she feels real feelings, it would be harder to ignore facts that illicit feelings, IMO.

I don't have a take on the youngest.

So I think the best potential for explicitly inculpating testimony is from Garth and Leah. Possibly, Garth's statements may have evolved over time, and he may have the Audrey problem, as he was a grand jury witness.

MOO

Chad told his brother in law (testimony from last week) that his kids keep secrets well.
We don’t know that Garth didn’t lie to the grand jury. I can’t imagine the prosecution asking one of his kids to testify and then John Prior twisting them to make them change their mind, likely coached from Chad. It’s a huge risk. IMO