TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #6

[Teche]

Before she became certified as a teacher, she worked as a paraprofessional is what the witness said.

Thanks, I missed that.

 

[aafromaa]

Wasn’t another Daybell child expected to be called to testify by the defense?

We thought there might be because in JP’s opening he stumbled with it said 4 of the 5 then said 3 or 4 of the 5. I thought maybe JM was the 4th one he was stumbling over but it may simply be that he can’t add or doesn’t realize that by saying 3 of the 5 he is not including a son-in-law. Sorry that was not nice….it may simply be that he mis-spoke. Or it could be that the 3rd one he thought would testify changed his or her mind between opening statements and the defense’s case in chief. We will likely never know.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

And I always think you are both right.

LDS has everything and nothing to do with this case. First and foremost, the victims are LDS.

As Leah Scottile wrote, to paraphrase, if you think this is a true crime story, you are missing the point. It is about extremism and LDS radicals and white horses and thin threads from which constitutions are rumored to hang.

And yet it is a true crime story about Tylee, JJ and Tammy. Who were killed by murderers caught up in an extremism that produces very few murderers and does not feel like the theology Jane Doe or Richard Roe learn about in ordinary Mormon Sunday school. But take away the theology and continue the smothering and shooting, they are just as dead. Nobody got casted to death.

But the extremism is a social concern. Therefore, the reluctance of the LDS church- or business fairly enough- to publicly condemn dangerous pepper movements and explicitly contrast them with LDS prudence with resources is a problem. The LDS church should also contextualize rugged pioneer life as a cultural experience that taught Mormons their independent resource-saving habits, and deemphasize the second coming, which the church teaches ordinary people can't time out. The LDS should condemn ordinary people claiming special gifts. Because those are things the church can do to prevent extremism that harms their own worshipers.

Charles, Tylee and Tammy were devout, dedicated members of the LDS church. JJ was still too young to baptize! As Prior likes to point out, most of the people victimized by grifts associated with PAP and AVOW are LDS. How many LDS people retire to poverty because they spent too much on rodent proof food storage and not enough on their 401k's?

But boiled down to the criminal elements, this is just a greedy murder story. LDS has nothing to do with it.

MOO

Geeeezzz... stop watching threads for a while and you miss soooo much. I feel as if I am a month behind, but its only a day!!
Just wanted to say @Ruminations that I loved loved loved this post.

And just wanted to focus on the one paragraph in particular. A beautiful discussion of the issues you present. I have seen some decent documents as to WHY the Church cannot break the resistance to condemn, but I wont bore all on the thread with that. moo. But I think you are spot on about deemphasis of the second coming that is the root of many of the off shoots, and clearly the Daybells. LDS is clear that "news of the second coming" only comes through the most senior prophets of the heirarchy (I keep typing profits instead of prophets... there must be something to that ha ha ha). BUT they have their ways to make particular strong statement/guidance/demands............ and they should on this one !!

But the second coming is clearly the drive of Daybell and friends, so not totally irrelevant.

But the extremism is a social concern. Therefore, the reluctance of the LDS church- or business fairly enough- to publicly condemn dangerous pepper movements and explicitly contrast them with LDS prudence with resources is a problem. The LDS church should also contextualize rugged pioneer life as a cultural experience that taught Mormons their independent resource-saving habits, and deemphasize the second coming, which the church teaches ordinary people can't time out. The LDS should condemn ordinary people claiming special gifts. Because those are things the church can do to prevent extremism that harms their own worshipers.

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1793709979293327541

 

[indicolite22]

ETA: IIRC, Chad also told another witness that he found Tammy at 1am. It was someone from Tammy's funeral.

SBM. I found it (my old post):

Tammy's cousin's daughter Hannah did testify that Chad told her that he went upstairs at 1am and found Tammy dead.

That's why JP was so adamant that there was no upstairs.

LIVE UPDATES | Cousins testify about Tammy Daybell relationship and encounters with Chad Daybell at funeral - East Idaho News

LIVE UPDATES FROM THE CHAD DAYBELL TRIAL CLICK HERE TO WATCH THE TRIAL LIVE Please excuse the typos. These are live updates from the courtroom. 1:30 p.m. Blake says their next witness will not be here until Wednesday. She requests that court dismiss for the day and we reconvene Wednesday. Boyce...

www.eastidahonews.com

12:51 p.m. Hannah attended Tammy’s funeral and viewing. She went through the viewing line twice with different people. Chad was first in the viewing line. Tammy and Chad’s children were also in the viewing line. Hannah and her dad had a conversation with Chad. She says Chad said Tammy had been sick that day and she had been vomiting and coughing, and around 10 p.m., she threw up again. Chad said Tammy then went to bed, but Chad stayed in his office working. Around 1 a.m., he went upstairs and found Tammy on the floor, and she had rolled out of the bed. Chad said he found her cold. As Hannah testifies, Chad smiles.

Why would Chad even mention 1am if nothing happened at that hour? Did he go to bed at 1am? His second story Hannah overheard:

12:55 p.m. Around two hours later, Hannah went through the funeral line with her mother. She says Chad told them what happened – Tammy had been coughing violently and he was worried about her. Between 9 and 10 p.m., she came down to his office and said she was going to bed. Chad said he was worried about her and went to bed with her, but around midnight, Tammy rolled out of bed. Hannah was confused because the stories were inconsistent.

So according to Chad, Tammy rolled out of the bed either at midnight, at 1am or in the morning. Which was it?

 

[aafromaa]

I can’t seem to find information on when the 911 call was placed to report Tammy’s death. If GD was the one who found his mom when he arrived home as he supposedly told his coworker, how long was it between the time he arrived home and the 911 call was placed? What happened during the time in between?

I’m not sure that GD found TD when he came home from work but my understanding was that was about 1am and he played video games for I think 3 hours and was woken up a short time later by CD yelling for him to come help - pretty sure that was supposed to be 540am and the call to 911 went in at 550am.

It’s also puzzling to me that CD & GD did not call EMD who lived across the street - instead she came when she saw emergency vehicles at the house. At least I think that’s what I remember she said.

 

[Ruminations]

• The 5k - I wish the State had some sort of proof (photos, documentation) that would show Tammy did participate in the 5k, but I feel like this would have been brought forward already if they did.
• Insurance - We already know that they're going to try to rebut Emma's assertion that Tammy got the school insurance policy without consulting with CD
• Jail calls - Blake already hinted that they have evidence showing ways that CD coached Emma; I'd love to for the jury to hear this firsthand. Plus, I don't think Emma realizes how CD has been gaslighting her and how manipulative he is, and I think it'd be good for her to see this.

I agree with all of this.

I am replying after the court day- I listened to most of it. I had similar hopes, but didn't anticipate the zinger of testimony from Garth's friend.

That was very believable. I like how the prosecution stayed mostly gentle with Garth, then brought this testimony in so cleanly.

I was listening with a biased ear, but it seemed to me that Prior came off desperate trying to accuse the man of lying because it sounds so unbelievable that Garth would share such a personal thing. (Prior tried to do the same thing to Emma's friend who said Emma mentioned a blood clot- like, how was that not believable?)

Prior accusing that man of lying, when it didn't sound like a lie, made him sound more firmly believable and felt to me like it solidified the information that witness gave: Garth came home after midnight, found mom dead; couldn't find dad.

It brought to mind this question: ummm, wouldn't THAT have been a great time to call 911? And an answer: NOTHING happens in that house without dad's approval, and there is a history of some sort that suggested to Garth that calling 911 after finding mom dead was not an exception, especially if you can't find dad.

Then, while prior was trying to call him a liar, he reminded the jury of Garth's testimony, which, frankly, they may have somewhat forgotten until reminded; the amount of information they have had come at them is enormous. If the jury had forgotten, Prior reminded them that Garth had claimed to come in, not see anyone, heard snoring by dad, saw two forms on the bed, played on computer until about 3:00 AM, went to sleep, woke to thud. Prior repeated it and suddenly it was 100% not credible.

Now Garth seemed very nervous, traumatized and thirsty on the stand. He had to change his answers. He didn't read the room and get emotional when Prior suggested he might need a break. To me, it seemed he was so worried about what he is supposed to say about who drove what, what the rules are for correcting testimony, etc., that there was just no room left in his brain to connect to sorrow about his mother being gone. In short, he came off running scared snd thus, not believable. So contrasting that to his friend, who was believable it strikes me as a huge defense error.

I feel really bad for Garth today. (Subject to change without notice.) IMO, he knew his mother was murdered by his father right away. I can't imagine what it was like to live in the same house as Chad with that knowledge. I'd never sleep. He lived with a murderer and knew it.

MOO

 

[Pruddennce]

Not just alone, he said he found her when he came home from his second job, which was several hours earlier than in his testimony. Why didn't he call 911 immediately?

ETA: IIRC, Chad also told another witness that he found Tammy at 1am. It was someone from Tammy's funeral.

yes, he told a different story to his co-worker. his testimony was he was up watching utube until 3am. Emma, well lie-a-rama.

 

[Snoopster]

Now that it's done livestreaming, I can note the time mark for smug CD. Check out the video, particularly starting around 2:30:01, with the head-waggle at 2:31:08.

And another head waggle/smirk when Mackay was testifying that he sometimes met up with Garth outside of work. (around 2:46:33)

 

[lightofmine99]

And another head waggle/smirk when Mackay was testifying that he sometimes met up with Garth outside of work. (around 2:46:33)

So Chad finds the concept of his son having a social life funny and/or unbelievable? How else are we supposed to interpret this? Bet he wasn't a fan of Garth participating in a haunted house. MOO.

 

[aafromaa]

SBM. I found it (my old post):

Tammy's cousin's daughter Hannah did testify that Chad told her that he went upstairs at 1am and found Tammy dead.

That's why JP was so adamant that there was no upstairs.

LIVE UPDATES | Cousins testify about Tammy Daybell relationship and encounters with Chad Daybell at funeral - East Idaho News

LIVE UPDATES FROM THE CHAD DAYBELL TRIAL CLICK HERE TO WATCH THE TRIAL LIVE Please excuse the typos. These are live updates from the courtroom. 1:30 p.m. Blake says their next witness will not be here until Wednesday. She requests that court dismiss for the day and we reconvene Wednesday. Boyce...

www.eastidahonews.com

12:51 p.m. Hannah attended Tammy’s funeral and viewing. She went through the viewing line twice with different people. Chad was first in the viewing line. Tammy and Chad’s children were also in the viewing line. Hannah and her dad had a conversation with Chad. She says Chad said Tammy had been sick that day and she had been vomiting and coughing, and around 10 p.m., she threw up again. Chad said Tammy then went to bed, but Chad stayed in his office working. Around 1 a.m., he went upstairs and found Tammy on the floor, and she had rolled out of the bed. Chad said he found her cold. As Hannah testifies, Chad smiles.

Why would Chad even mention 1am if nothing happened at that hour? Did he go to bed at 1am?

According to GD’s testimony, CD was in bed snoring when he came home - wasn’t that at 1am?

 

[Snoopster]

I agree with all of this.

I am replying after the court day- I listened to most of it. I had similar hopes, but didn't anticipate the zinger of testimony from Garth's friend.

That was very believable. I like how the prosecution stayed mostly gentle with Garth, then brought this testimony in so cleanly.

I was listening with a biased ear, but it seemed to me that Prior came off desperate trying to accuse the man of lying because it sounds so unbelievable that Garth would share such a personal thing. (Prior tried to do the same thing to Emma's friend who said Emma mentioned a blood clot- like, how was that not believable?)

Prior accusing that man of lying, when it didn't sound like a lie, made him sound more firmly believable and felt to me like it solidified the information that witness gave: Garth came home after midnight, found mom dead; couldn't find dad.

It brought to mind this question: ummm, wouldn't THAT have been a great time to call 911? And an answer: NOTHING happens in that house without dad's approval, and there is a history of some sort that suggested to Garth that calling 911 after finding mom dead was not an exception, especially if you can't find dad.

Then, while prior was trying to call him a liar, he reminded the jury of Garth's testimony, which, frankly, they may have somewhat forgotten until reminded; the amount of information they have had come at them is enormous. If the jury had forgotten, Prior reminded them that Garth had claimed to come in, not see anyone, heard snoring by dad, saw two forms on the bed, played on computer until about 3:00 AM, went to sleep, woke to thud. Prior repeated it and suddenly it was 100% not credible.

Now Garth seemed very nervous, traumatized and thirsty on the stand. He had to change his answers. He didn't read the room and get emotional when Prior suggested he might need a break. To me, it seemed he was so worried about what he is supposed to say about who drove what, what the rules are for correcting testimony, etc., that there was just no room left in his brain to connect to sorrow about his mother being gone. In short, he came off running scared snd thus, not believable. So contrasting that to his friend, who was believable it strikes me as a huge defense error.

I feel really bad for Garth today. (Subject to change without notice.) IMO, he knew his mother was murdered by his father right away. I can't imagine what it was like to live in the same house as Chad with that knowledge. I'd never sleep. He lived with a murderer and knew it.

MOO

You reminded me of something that I had found strange in Garth's testimony. He said that he saw two forms in his parents' bed when he came home. Did his parents sleep with their door wide open at night?

 

[justtrish]

I just really dislike how the defense questions people. I know it's their job, but it just grates my nerves to hear the condescending tone that is always used, the questions that he tries to make these big "ta da" moments with that go nowhere and his disrespectful tone toward LE, professionals and the friends of Tammy. Come on dude that is NOT going to look well with the jury so why the heck are you doing it?

 

[indicolite22]

According to GD’s testimony, CD was in bed snoring when he came home - wasn’t that at 1am?

IMO that was a lie.

 

[Snoopster]

So Chad finds the concept of his son having a social life funny and/or unbelievable? How else are we supposed to interpret this? Bet he wasn't a fan of Garth participating in a haunted house. MOO.

Or maybe Chad never met this guy our heard Garth talk about him? Or maybe Garth talked poorly about him?

But Mackay sure got Chad's attention when he testified about what Garth said about finding his mother. Chad went completely still....no head waggle there!

 

[Ruminations]

Interesting, if Garth found his mother, totally alone, that changes the entire story we have heard all along.

My mind immediately goes to:

What kind of life at home was it when an adult child does not call 911 in that circumstance.

How would he know that some bad guy didn't take Chad hostage? Maybe Chad ran out after a murderer and was hurt?

Was it just Garth's previous experience that led him to decide, whatever is going on, Dad doesn't want me to call 911 now, or was the scene already an obvious murder scene?

OMFG that was something. I did not think it was possible to hear something new so horrible.

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

I agree with all of this.

I am replying after the court day- I listened to most of it. I had similar hopes, but didn't anticipate the zinger of testimony from Garth's friend.

That was very believable. I like how the prosecution stayed mostly gentle with Garth, then brought this testimony in so cleanly.

I was listening with a biased ear, but it seemed to me that Prior came off desperate trying to accuse the man of lying because it sounds so unbelievable that Garth would share such a personal thing. (Prior tried to do the same thing to Emma's friend who said Emma mentioned a blood clot- like, how was that not believable?)

Prior accusing that man of lying, when it didn't sound like a lie, made him sound more firmly believable and felt to me like it solidified the information that witness gave: Garth came home after midnight, found mom dead; couldn't find dad.

It brought to mind this question: ummm, wouldn't THAT have been a great time to call 911? And an answer: NOTHING happens in that house without dad's approval, and there is a history of some sort that suggested to Garth that calling 911 after finding mom dead was not an exception, especially if you can't find dad.

Then, while prior was trying to call him a liar, he reminded the jury of Garth's testimony, which, frankly, they may have somewhat forgotten until reminded; the amount of information they have had come at them is enormous. If the jury had forgotten, Prior reminded them that Garth had claimed to come in, not see anyone, heard snoring by dad, saw two forms on the bed, played on computer until about 3:00 AM, went to sleep, woke to thud. Prior repeated it and suddenly it was 100% not credible.

Now Garth seemed very nervous, traumatized and thirsty on the stand. He had to change his answers. He didn't read the room and get emotional when Prior suggested he might need a break. To me, it seemed he was so worried about what he is supposed to say about who drove what, what the rules are for correcting testimony, etc., that there was just no room left in his brain to connect to sorrow about his mother being gone. In short, he came off running scared snd thus, not believable. So contrasting that to his friend, who was believable it strikes me as a huge defense error.

I feel really bad for Garth today. (Subject to change without notice.) IMO, he knew his mother was murdered by his father right away. I can't imagine what it was like to live in the same house as Chad with that knowledge. I'd never sleep. He lived with a murderer and knew it.

MOO

"NOTHING happens in that house without dad's approval." That explains a lot of things in that family. Chad expected his children to cover for him and they did.

 

[Ruminations]

What does it matter about the autopsy results? The family didn't care about an autopsy after their mother was dead. They cared (CD), after she was exhumed, about the autopsy.

This makes absolutely no difference in the trial regarding CD.

Depending on what the scene was like when he returned from work, Garth may not have needed to hear asphyxiation/homocide.

MOO

 

[BeachSky]

JP says state is going to try to attack everything he presented in his case in chief but that is not the purpose of rebuttal…

It isn’t?

Hey if someone (JP) throws a rock at you
it’s okay to pick that rock up and throw it back!

Moo

 

[wnk]

It brought to mind this question: ummm, wouldn't THAT have been a great time to call 911? And an answer: NOTHING happens in that house without dad's approval, and there is a history of some sort that suggested to Garth that calling 911 after finding mom dead was not an exception, especially if you can't find dad.

I am 100% in agreement with this assessment.

We saw this with the Paintball Incident on 9 Oct 2019 as well: Tammy is attacked at 9:15 PM by a masked man with a weapon. A Google search is made on CD's computer for paintball gun pictures (gaslighting Tammy to keep her quiet about it?), and no one calls the police until a half hour later when Joseph Murray sees Tammy's Facebook post and decides to call in.