TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #6

[Onsdag]

I’m finding rebuttal more interesting than I thought I would but curious as to why some of it wasn’t just brought in during the state’s case in chief.

So if JP hadn’t called GD and had him tell about his dad calling him into the room that morning then we may not have heard about how he told others that he found TD alone and didn’t know where CD was. BTW I’m still not convinced that his co-worker didn’t misunderstand something but he sure seemed sure of it, didn’t he?

And EDM’s refusal to hear the autopsy results and apparently initially the response of all the Daybell kids sure sounds like they didn’t want to know so they could hold on to the delusion that CD didn’t kill their mother.

Agreed. And I'm really wondering about that too. I mean it seems like there has been a ton of new (at least new to me, and I thought I was pretty well-informed about this case) information today that only came in as a rebuttal. And if it never got brought in for rebuttal would we have ever learned of it? It seems like some of this information is rather important, so wouldn't it have been better to introduce in direct examination? And if this is just the tip of the iceberg, how many more things will we never learn about because it wasn't proffered in direct, and won't appear in rebuttal since they have to limit it to what Defense brought up? Like Emma's phone calls with Chad - it sounds like there's a lot of information to be gleaned from those, but will they ever be released? I hope at least some of them come in for rebuttal on Emma's testimony, but who knows?

 

[nhmemorymaker]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

As someone who grew up LDS, I think the culture of inherent trust without question between members is a major contributor to a lot of problems, and that is a broader social problem that has little to nothing to do with temple ordinances or garments. It makes members vulnerable to those within the church who look to exploit that trust. Whether it's to do with money, child sexual abuse, or cultish ideas, it all comes down to accepting people too easily at face value because they attend the same church as you do, so they must be a good person.

But I am only one person, speaking from my own experiences, so MOO.

And I, agree and disagree.

I believe the doctrine (the religion) IS the culture, and cannot be separated.

This article is relatively new, and discusses in depth how the Daybell-Vallow case, as part of a much larger fringe LDS conglomerate. There are a number of cases/people who "used" the doctrine/culture to perform criminal acts.
The Daybell-Vallow case is exceptionally heinous, thus it stands out independently, as such a vile crime.

But what about the underage sexual grooming cases, kidnapping cases, or rabid MLS scams. Are they not vile too?.

All LDS offshoots started with "LDS prothletising, turning to false prophets.

How the Malignant Faith of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell Went Mainstream

The conspiratorial world that produced Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell may be extreme, but it is anything but fringe.

www.thedailybeast.com

"nothing about their story ends until the wider LDS culture stops casting the pair aside as fringe freaks of the faith, but extremists who were coddled in their midst"
Note:
And I quote and value your statement
But I am only one person, speaking from my own experiences, so MOO".
I am not Mormon. Members of my immediate family are. And my long term next door neighbor is direct lineage of one of the original powerful Danish families who were part of Joseph Smith's expansion to Europe.

 

[indicolite22]

I think I have this right….it’s from my notes so I think from LVD trial…

10:22 TD's phone is active & playing games
10:23 to 10:54 ten texts between AC & CD
11:28pm a jpg is deleted from TD's phone
11:34 2 texts between CD & LVD
11:46 AC's device leaving LDS church parking lot
11:53pm to 12:09am AC calls LVD
12:10 LVD sends ZP a text
12:35am CD texts LVD

less than 6 hours later CD reports TD is deceased

Sometime the next day LVD texts CD to check AC because he’s the only way they could get to both of them - I did not put a time in my notes for this text

IMHO TD was killed between 11:00 to 11:30pm - probably prior to the jpg being deleted from her phone at 11:28

So Chad is texting with Lori before letting Alex in. Is Tammy awake at that point? Half an hour later, after the murder, Chad and Lori are texting again and then Alex calls her to tell her his version. Lori immediately notifies Zulema. Chad texts Lori one more time. Is he awake when Garth arrives home? (All speculation based on the timeline)
What was in the picture deleted from Tammy's phone that could have been incriminating for them?

 

[mickey2942]

I agree that the LDS religion is definitely a "culture".

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Here is a link to Everything

Timelines
Who's who
Trials
New updates
Videos

Not sure if you are able to watch the trial live, but this link has every day of trial attached along with written updates.

Some days, I am not able to read along or watch so I am glad that Nate Eaton / EIN posts these every day for reference.

Our WS Niner also will post this link at the beginning of every day so I just click on that link to follow along.

Daybell Case Archives - East Idaho News

www.eastidahonews.com

I give raves to Nate Eaton and @Niner . She is asleep right now (lives over the Atlantic) but, even though I don't want to sound slushy or anything... she is amazing for us here at WS.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I totally get what you're saying and Mormons might be far less vulnerable to some cult from outsiders.

True. It MUST be a cult sprung from LDS if any cult interest.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Thank you so much and I do read Nate, watch some testimony, watch some Hidden True Crime and read here. There's so much information and so many players that I still get goofed up!

Yeah, I really like the Hidden Crime folks too. What I also like....is that some of these outstanding reporters are all becoming friends too... Nate, True Crime, Jason Lum in AZ among others.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Sunk cost fallacy is what Iamshadow21 said, but it could also be explained as, "It would make more sense to stop, but I have already poured so much into [insert thing] I might as well keep going, otherwise it is a loss." Even if letting go of whatever it was they were dedicated to would be the best option, they don't want to accept any kind of loss or failure. It's unfortunately a very common mentality you can find just about everywhere.

Dawson did not use that phrase; I put that in parenthesis because what he described could be classified as sunk cost fallacy. Perhaps I should've been more clear. I've maintained that sunk cost fallacy has influenced Chad's kids' continued devotion to him to some degree. And maybe that's why Chad and Lori have not officially divorced...

MOO.

wow.
I have really learned something today. Never ever heard of sunk cost fallacy.
Is it a thing that many DO understand???????

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I wonder where Alex got his money. He traveled all over, stayed in hotels, rented apartments and drove vehicles (did have his own?). That all takes money and not just a little.

Lori??

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I know many here believe it was all about the money, and the loin fire (of course!), but I think another reason he didn't want to divorce is that he still wanted to be respected at LDS church so he could continue to position himself as a prophet. It was all about ego and attracting those babes!

sex, power/position and.... money (unless sunk cost fallacy sets in)

 

[indicolite22]

JP didn't recall MG after all. Portraying her as the ring leader was far fetched anyway. He didn't even throw Lori under the bus too much and he defended Alex in regard to the "paintball gun" incident. His witnesses mainly tried to shame LE and poke holes in experts' testimonies. There doesn't seem to be a coherent defense.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I've been entertaining this idea also. While it certainly seems he's doing everything he can to put on an exceptional defense for Chad - and I do believe he is - there have been a number of things Prior says, or witnesses he's questioned, that almost seem carefully calculated to help the prosecution's case. For example calling Dr. Bartelink as a witness... his testimony today was a powerful second witness for the prosecution... and what did Prior get out of it exactly? A statement that it can't be determined if the burning happened before or after arriving on Chad's property? Like that matters? Meanwhile Prosecution keeps hitting grand slams off of Prior's pitches. It would have been far better to not have called him as a witness.

And from these past few weeks, months, and even years I've seen John Prior handling this case I know he is a very intelligent man, so he's got to be aware of how people will perceive certain things and testimonies. And how it appears that sometimes he's shooting himself (or perhaps more accurately, Chad) in the foot. The only thing I can attribute these 'lapses in judgment' to is perhaps an indirect attempt to make sure that justice is served... while also doing his part as an attorney to vigorously defend his client.

Just my personal speculation, and I don't mean to question Prior's integrity to his profession or client. I actually can't help but admire his dedication and passion for the work he's done in this case, even if I disagree with some of the methods and things he's done while doing so.

I have appreciated Priors kindness until today. He was downright hateful to rebuttal witnesses. That’s a huge fail for me.

 

[indicolite22]

I wonder where Alex got his money. He traveled all over, stayed in hotels, rented apartments and drove vehicles (did have his own?). That all takes money and not just a little.

IIRC, after he quit his job as a trucker (before moving with Lori to Idaho), he took a big loan. Not sure if he bought all his weapons with that money.

 

[indicolite22]

I have appreciated Priors kindness until today. He was downright hateful to rebuttal witnesses. That’s a huge fail for me.

IMO, JP wants to win, otherwise he wouldn't have resorted to lying and coaching his witnesses to lie.

 

[aafromaa]

Judging by the timeline above, there's a chance that Tammy wasn't asleep when she was attacked. How did Alex know when to move in?

Probably has something to do with these 10 texts in 31 minutes….

10:23 to 10:54 ten texts between AC & CD

 

[Ruminations]

I wonder where Alex got his money. He traveled all over, stayed in hotels, rented apartments and drove vehicles (did have his own?). That all takes money and not just a little.

He had a solid job and income and stable finances. Around August, he took out a personal loan- I think I recall 19k- and then quit his job.

Aside from payoffs/"business" expenses I suspect he received, he had the loan and any residual pay (such as if his pay days were for previous weeks) to live off of for a few months. If he paid the rent in Rexburg himself, he only would have had to pay perhaps Sept, a month deposit, oct, and November. I doubt he paid Dec, but if he did, that's only 5 months of less than 600.00. (I think the rent was in the high 500's.) 600.00x5 is 3k. He'd have about 15k or more left of his loan.

MOO

 

[Love Never Fails]

So Chad is texting with Lori before letting Alex in. Is Tammy awake at that point? Half an hour later, after the murder, Chad and Lori are texting again and then Alex calls her to tell her his version. Lori immediately notifies Zulema. Chad texts Lori one more time. Is he awake when Garth arrives home? (All speculation based on the timeline)
What was in the picture deleted from Tammy's phone that could have been incriminating for them?

Maybe Tammy was awake and heard someone come and she grabbed her phone and snapped a picture, likely thinking Chad was there somewhere. Maybe Chad grabbed the phone and deleted it. Just thinking and typing.

 

[Love Never Fails]

IMO, JP wants to win, otherwise he wouldn't have resorted to lying and coaching his witnesses to lie.

I’m not sure he had to coach Emma or Joe but maybe moreso Garth.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Probably has something to do with these 10 texts in 31 minutes….

10:23 to 10:54 ten texts between AC & CD

He’s texting Lori whike Tammy is being murdered? NO WORDS!

 

[indicolite22]

I’m not sure he had to coach Emma or Joe but maybe moreso Garth.

Chad couldn't openly coach her any more because it would be recorded, but he could give instructions for her to JP (attorney-client communication is not recorded).