TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #6

[Ruminations]

I have given much thought to this because of the timing more than anything. I just can’t see it as a coincidence. However, LVD & CD were in Hawaii & I can’t see any way they could have killed him….unless ZP did something and I really don’t think that is the case. That leaves me thinking it may have been at his own hand. If intentional suicide then I see 3 or 4 possible reasons AC might take his own life…

1) He knew with LE having just exhumed TD’s body that it was likely that they were closing in on the murderous trio and didn’t want to face a trial and imprisonment nor could he admit to his new wife what he had done.
2) He knew that CD & LVD would make him the scapegoat and felt so betrayed by LVD after all he’d done for her that he didn’t want to live anymore.
3) CD & LVD convinced him that it was time for him to depart this life and move on to the next probation and his next mission.
4) The light bulb came on and he actually realized that he wasn’t involved in taking out zombies but in taking the lives of innocent people and especially the children and couldn’t live with himself anymore.

I know many have said that a pulmonary embolism or blood clot just formed and could have been caused by his high blood pressure and long flight as he had just returned - was it from Mexico or South America or something - I can’t remember - but long flights have been known to cause DVT which can move to the lungs and become PE.

But certain drugs can also cause DVT & PE such as cocaine or heroin and while I don’t believe either was found in his system, I don’t know how long it stays in the system or how quickly it can cause DVT - meaning what if he did one of these drugs the day before his death? Would it still show on a toxicology report? I don’t know. I also don’t know if there are other ways to cause DVT or PE but I don’t think that we can conclude that it is not possible to cause a PE to yourself or someone else.

I can’t say for sure whether AC died of natural causes or suicide but I lean more towards suicide than murder if it is one of the two and I lean more toward # 3 above for the reason he might have done that. Remember that ZP said LVD & CD were no longer calling him or answering his calls after they went to Hawaii - except that they called him the night before he died and told him TD was being exhumed and then I think AC had called CD again the day he died and asked for a blessing - not the patriarchal blessing but a blessing because he wasn’t feeling well. Then CD called ZP and told her that AC wasn’t doing well and she should go check on him. Who knows what was said in that conversation between CD & AC that day?

AC’s death is just one more thing in this case that we will likely never know the details and the truth about. There are so many things in this case we may never know! When you think about it, there are probably as many or more things we don’t know than what we do.

I’m not saying for sure it was suicide - just that I find that more likely than murder. But I don’t put more weight into that possibility than I do the natural causes theory either. The timing of it just makes me suspicious.

There is a Facebook conversation that is posted on unapproved sources. So this thought is MOOing like a herd of cows.

I saw a conversation that is in screen shots and I didn't detect the dates. Maybe someone knows them, but I never tried to see initial screenshots and dates. It is a conversation with Daybell daughter Leah and ann unknown friend. It was before the kids were found but after Lori was refusing to follow an order to produce them.

In the convo Leah says she can't explain why the kids are not produced, but says it is per lawyer advice do there must be a good reason. She also explains that part of the reason there is so much heat is because of coincidences that arose suspicion. One of the coincidences she mentioned was Alex dying of (per her in this exchange) an asthma attack.

I found it an indication that some investigators somewhere were saying, "Help me out...this is quite a string of bad luck..." and mentioning in the list of strange things Alex dying. Because, it was one of the things she explained, right up there with her mother's recently upping the life insurance.

Leah comes off as the child most able to emote. Or maybe I mean, as the child with her humanity in tact; she doesn't come off robotic. Even in those texts defending her father and step mother.

Garth, even though I believe he lied and may have allowed himself to be pressured to help cover a murder and commit perjury, also seems to have humanity not hidden far below.

But my point I wandered from was not the level of indoctrination of the kids. My point was Alex.

It does appear that Leah was at least questioned about Alex' death.

MOO

 

[Kemug]

.

And it sounds like she took a photo?????????

Yes, we did hear that. And that it was deleted from her phone. I (not being a technical whiz) can't really understand why it can't be retrieved - after all, there have been previous cases where murderers have deleted incriminating things on their phones/computers, and they have been retrieved (the Men end ez brothers?)

 

[Ruminations]

How long ago were these?

This was the date of Chad's arrest. L E had just found JJ and were still searching Chad's lawn. Chad started driving away. He was detained by police and anticipated being arrested and not released. Emma approached where he was detained and was allowed to talk with him.

MOO

 

[Diddian]

.

Yes, we did hear that. And that it was deleted from her phone. I (not being a technical whiz) can't really understand why it can't be retrieved - after all, there have been previous cases where murderers have deleted incriminating things on their phones/computers, and they have been retrieved (the Men end ez brothers?)

Maybe the delay between the earliest time Garth reportedly realized TD was dead and the 911 call involved a search led by CD to make sure that photo that was reportedly deleted from TD’s phone was also deleted from her cloud account (so all other connected devices).

It may be that LE has been able to retrieve enough data to determine a photo was taken (or alternatively, a photo was somehow transferred to and saved by TD prior to her death) and that photo was deleted but not be able to retrieve the content because those doing the deletion were technical whiz enough to be thorough in their deletion of the photo and however it was originated.

Edited for spelling.

 

[Ruminations]

Good! I didn't know that, either. This should mean that Melani should be in the hot seat.

She still travels with a veritable legal team.

She is not out of the woods yet.

When I heard her bawling in on the Ian recordings because Mommy and Daddy deigned to make a zoom appearance, I felt like she was an eight year old.

Ian felt like she was victimized by Lori and Chad. I agree. I also believe she is also criminally culpable in the attempt on Brandon's life, as well as the one with the most $$$ to gain.

Just because the people you love and trust manipulated you does not mean you are not responsible for your actions.

MOO

 

[Kemug]

If Melani was put away for quite some time, it would be a good thing for her children, IMO.

 

[nodamselindistress]

No, I dont think LE was looking at overall picture yet and were not suspicious at that time

CV murdered in July 2019 -but LE thought it was self defense-- no suspicion

Tammy was killed In Oct 2019- cremated-nothing suspicious at that time per LE

JJ and Tylee were not Reported / investigated as missing until Nov 2019

Alex died Dec 11 2019

CD & LVD found in Hawaii in Jan 2020

I really don't think LE would have been looking too deep into AxC death when he died..
They did NOT test for any unusual drugs, etc in the toxicology testing as they would not have a reason to AT THAT TIME.

I do believe ZP asked about being a suspect exactly because she was privy to all the info -- which to me, IMO, makes her compliant as well.

Which is why she sought Immunity. JMO

Just wanted to point out that Tammy was NOT cremated. She was buried in Springville, Utah on Oct 22, 2019 and her body was exhumed Dec 12, 2019 for an autopsy.

Not trying to be the police or anything, but this is the 2nd or 3rd time I have read that Tammy was cremated and I just don't want that misrepresentation to get repeated over and over.

Thanks!

 

[wnk]

And it sounds like she took a photo?????????

Objection. Misstates the evidence.

We were told that a photo was deleted from Tammy's phone at 11:28 PM on the night she died. We do not know what the photo was or when it was taken. It could have been something from that night that would point a finger at the killers, or it could have been taken days or weeks or months before. We simply don't know.

 

[Pruddennce]

A drug that they did not test for IMO

There is a whole thread, IIRC about this when AxC passed away

The day After they all found out TD's body was being exhumed.

AxC received a blessing from Chad,

Then Chad called ZP and said, "you better get home"

To which ZP called her son to check on Alex

ZP son, who did NOT even know that AxC was his new stepdad and married to his mother, found him on bathroom floor.

Then ZP asked LE if she was a "Suspect" in his death ?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

WHY WOULD SHE ASK THIS ?? Did she substitute something in one of his other meds ???

Then ZP said--
During the interview, Pastenes said Cox did not have much communication with his six siblings. She said she knew Lori and Melani but did not know where Lori lived or her phone number.


“She said the last time she tried texting Lori, the number was disconnected,” according to the report. “She had met Lori a few times before when Lori lived locally. She had not seen Lori since she moved a few months ago. She did not think Lori was married.”



Meanwhile, Pastenes’ daughter arrived at the house and spoke with detectives about her mother and Lori. She described the two as good friends who attended the same congregation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, according to police reports.

The daughter said both Pastenes and Lori were “preppers” preparing for the end of the world, and her mother met Cox, whom she described as “very religious,” through Lori. The two became engaged, and Pastenes planned to move to Idaho with Cox, Daybell and Pawlowski, according to the daughter. Plans changed when Cox moved in with them around Thanksgiving 2019.

Back at the hospital, a family member showed up and told Pastenes she should not speak to investigators without an attorney.

They went to their home, and Pastenes received a phone call from someone.

“Moments later, Zulema told me she would not talk with me without a lawyer,” an officer wrote in a report.


Well, now that I have re-read everything I just posted, I see it really does not answer your question except the first sentence.

But it is all very suspicious and too much of a coincidence, IMO

New details released on what happened the day Alex Cox died - East Idaho News

GILBERT, Arizona — Authorities released new information Monday regarding the investigation into the death of Lori Vallow Daybell’s brother, Alex Cox. The 59 pages of heavily redacted reports provide more insight about Cox, his death and what those close to him had to say about his life...

www.eastidahonews.com

excellent recap of LE's incident report regarding AC. unfortunately, the report was redacted. always wondered about all of the pieces of evidence they collected, all redacted. Z obtained immunity to testify. no one knows why.

trip to mexico...her reason: prescriptions for her AND AC. he did not take any prescription medication and none were found in his toxicology. except narcan. some guess administered by first responders.....however, no info if they did administer especially since Z was giving CPR when they arrived and she would be able to answer questions about drug use. vomiting and losing bowels and unresponsive can be anything...if responders were administering to him they would be asking her questions about his health and drugs so why administer it? IMO

 

[Love Never Fails]

I checked some of her dates, all in 2021 (dates for EIN articles):

May 21: Lori is declared indigent
May 25: Murder charges drop for her and Chad
May 27: Lori is declared incompetent

I's likely that Chad's money stopped funding her defense even earlier. I can imagine her commissary money also stopping. She was transferred to a state hospital for several months. But her defense could have been prepaid to some extent and someone else could have contributed towards it. It likely wasn't her or Chad's family. The Daybell children went on 48 Hours a whole year later (in July 2022), claiming that dad had been framed. By that point Lori would have been on her own for a while. How did she keep up her spirit?

Chad told Emma on June 9, when he was arrested after LE finding the children, that he had been sending Lori $30 per week and to go ahead and send that because she needed that. I believe Emma did that. What happened in 2021 I don’t know.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I would need to see some proof that a particular drug could do that. Not saying it isn't possible, because drugs can have deadly side effects but what drug and how much would it take? Zulema is the only one who could have poisoned him or it would have had to have been suicide so what chemical compound could have done it?

I absolutely think it was suicide unless Zulema assisted him. Iirc, she wasn’t home. I don’t know the chemical compounds of medicines nor do I remember them. I’ve read a lot though that many are undetectable for killing someone (or yourself). If there are drugs that can cause heart failure without a trace, there are some that can cause embolisms without a trace. That is NO reflection on an ME.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Please don't interject into the narrative the false idea that LE and ME's didn't look for signs of foul play in AC's death. Because that's the OPPOSITE from what happened.

When AC died, LE was all over it. They were of the same mind as any one of us, and instantly (!) assumed he had been murdered, and that was their starting point. They did everything they could to find something to indicate that. Something. Anything. They looked for poisons, something on the body, any hint of anything nefarious. ME's did test after test. And they found nothing.

They wanted to find something. They expected to, too. But there was nothing there.

Sometimes, coincidences do happen. AC drove long distance, and sitting for long periods can cause blood clots in the legs, that then travel to the lungs and kill you. That's a thing that happens. And he took a long long road trip, then he came back, and then died right after that. As good a fit as it would be for him to have been murdered, the blood clot like that (aka pulmonary embolism) also is a perfect fit for what happened.

Good morning Steve. I should never have mentioned ME’s in my statement. I could never do their job and I’m thankful for them. Please forgive me.

However, I believe he committed suicide if not murdered. It was just too convenient. I’ve read a lot about heart attacks, embolisms, aneurysms being murder.

Chad told him in his blessing he had a higher calling. Alex cried like a baby. He knew what he had to do. There was a text or phone call between Lori and Chad where Lori expressed that Alex would give them up to LE. I’m not quoting here. Alex could have been perfectly ready for an embolism. He had just had a hand in murdering four people and marrying someone he didn’t love. Then he felt like Chad and Lori cut him out of their lives by flying to Hawaii and getting married. He thought Chad was a prophet and his sister a goddess and come to find out they were just adulterers.

My point stands. He went to Mexico to get something untraceable to end his life. The fact that he had an embolism may or may not have factored in.
Did the ME or LE miss it? I don’t know because when they saw the embolism they may have stopped right there.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I would need to see some proof that a particular drug could do that. Not saying it isn't possible, because drugs can have deadly side effects but what drug and how much would it take? Zulema is the only one who could have poisoned him or it would have had to have been suicide so what chemical compound could have done it?

I won’t blame Zulema. I think she knows though. He likely committed suicide. I can’t provide proof unless it is in all the articles I’ve read. You might need “proof” even then if your mind is made up that it can’t be done.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Really? Wow.

I guess I'd hope that there would be a case brought for Brandon's attempted murder, but I don't think there have been any charges brought. We can only hope. (Melani we are looking at you!!)

I think he meant the punishment trial for Chad. Once he is found guilty, there is a whole other trial for punishment because the Stste is asking for the DP. Death wasn’t an option for Lori.
Larry knows the penalty trial is coming. coming. Then they go to AZ for Charles trial.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Death by bacon! Good grief, the guy went to every fast food joint in Rexburg, ID, based on his cellphone GPS records, daily. Really, is anyone surprised that he died because of blocked arteries?! Seriously.

BTW, the guy who did that documentary, "Super Size Me" who went to McDonald's for breakfast, lunch and dinner for a month, just recently died. Age 53.

Morgan Spurlock, filmmaker behind 'Super Size Me' documentary, dies from cancer

Morgan Spurlock, the filmmaker behind the award-winning "Super Size Me" documentary, died from cancer complications on Thursday, his family announced on Friday.

abcnews.go.com

He had colon cancer. Doctors have said many times that a cancer can (not saying it does) take ten years to grow in your body before it shows up. Eating Big Macs for one month didn’t cause colon cancer to kill him. Although he may have eaten Big Macs his whole adult life and the cancer could have been there quite awhile.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Excellent re-cap/article but... once the ME found blood clots, since the cops were very suspicious about it being murder, don't you think there would have been some testing if there were a drug known to give someone a PE? This so frustrating because his death has murder written all over it - and I want to believe - but I don't see how it's possible.

It could be that Zulema asked if she was a suspect simply because knew all of the deaths were murders and she was deeply enmeshed with the killers.

I’m not sure doctors know all the drugs that can cause murder without a trace. No one but God knows “all things”. An ME knows what medical science and his own experience has taught him. Even then, ME’s differ.
As for doctors, what they know about medicines is what the pharmaceutical salesmen tells them.

 

[indicolite22]

Good morning Steve. I should never have mentioned ME’s in my statement. I could never do their job and I’m thankful for them. Please forgive me.

However, I believe he committed suicide if not murdered. It was just too convenient. I’ve read a lot about heart attacks, embolisms, aneurysms being murder.

Chad told him in his blessing he had a higher calling. Alex cried like a baby. He knew what he had to do. There was a text or phone call between Lori and Chad where Lori expressed that Alex would give them up to LE. I’m not quoting here. Alex could have been perfectly ready for an embolism. He had just had a hand in murdering four people and marrying someone he didn’t love. Then he felt like Chad and Lori cut him out of their lives by flying to Hawaii and getting married. He thought Chad was a prophet and his sister a goddess and come to find out they were just adulterers.

My point stands. He went to Mexico to get something untraceable to end his life. The fact that he had an embolism may or may not have factored in.
Did the ME or LE miss it? I don’t know because when they saw the embolism they may have stopped right there.

If he wanted to end his life, why would he worry about the cause being traceable? Or why would he pick an agonizing death over a quick one?

 

[Diddian]

Objection. Misstates the evidence.

We were told that a photo was deleted from Tammy's phone at 11:28 PM on the night she died. We do not know what the photo was or when it was taken. It could have been something from that night that would point a finger at the killers, or it could have been taken days or weeks or months before. We simply don't know.

It could also have been a photo (or screenshot) that she didn’t take, but that was passed along to her and she saved it into her phone’s photo app.

 

[Love Never Fails]

If he wanted to end his life, why would he worry about the cause being traceable? Or why would he pick an agonizing death over a quick one?

He wasn’t smart enough to know quick from agonizing was he?

 

[Love Never Fails]

It could also have been a photo (or screenshot) that she didn’t take, but that was passed along to her and she saved it into her phone’s photo app.

It could have been ANYTHING. Yep.
But….