Trial - Ross Harris #3

[arkansasmimi]

I see what you are saying. I guess we will never know what the jury thinks about it. In many aspects the defense did a job making points against this witness. However, IMO they did a very poor job erasing the possibility, or creating major doubt that Cooper could have been alive. I feel like if I were on a jury, the possibility would really impact me. JMO

We will know, when they have a verdict. Defense has not put on their case yet. Jury should not be forming a guilt or innocence until they have heard all the testimony and evidence.

 

[katydid23]

They were factory tint.
Now here is what is tricky. The State contends that RH could see Cooper from outside. That the car seat could be seen by RH. So why not the other people that were near the car?

JMHO if were not looking in there to see Cooper, you wouldn't have a reason to glance in there.

I think it is silly for the defense to focus on random passers by and conclude anything from that. None of those people were RESPONSIBLE for Cooper that day. His father was, not them.

 

[blue22]

Wide awake at 9:30AM, when his daddy leaves him unexpectedly in the car, and has fallen asleep or is too weak to move by 9:44? 10:08? 10:21? With the car still in the shade?

And if he was moving and yelling, why would you assume other people hear?

One of the reasons this case stuck with me so deeply, is that I had the same vehicle, same year. I'm also a parent and also had a kiddo in a rear facing seat. I'm a very petite parent in the same car with a rear facing car seat. One of my son's would frequently skip to the car and let himself in while I was locking the house. Poor kid in his ADHD mind, was always forgetting something. It never failed that instead of getting out of the car, he would yell at me while I was locking the house. Never once did I hear him yelling. I was right there with him, knew he was there, knew he probably forgot something, but never heard him. I was too in my head, and he was never loud enough. (He still does the same thing. Sigh)

Long story short, I don't expect people could hear Cooper. They were going about their day. And it's just not that easy to hear someone from outside the car. I won't even get into how impossible I think it was for Ross to not have noticed Cooper.

Eta: for what it's worth, my windows came tinted.

 

[just the facts pls]

I think it is silly for the defense to focus on random passers by and conclude anything from that. None of those people were RESPONSIBLE for Cooper that day. His father was, not them.

Yes. I think it's important to note that this is how OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony got acquitted - the defense put everyone else on trial including law enforcement.

Kilgore&Company had a field day publicly humiliating the barely legal teenagers to distract from JRH's responsibility as a father and a husband. Now they are putting other pedestrians under a microscope even though they aren't the ones who are responsible for Cooper.

This makes me wonder about LH's upcoming testimony, and if Kilgore will try to, in a round about way, blame her for JRH's behavior and unhappiness. From what I've seen posted even here, I think it's a distinct possibility. At this point I am convinced they will do anything to distract the jury from the fact that JRH is a thirty year old grown man who knew better.

 

[blue22]

We will know, when they have a verdict. Defense has not put on their case yet. Jury should not be forming a guilt or innocence until they have heard all the testimony and evidence.

I never said they would be already forming guilt or innocence. And I seriously doubt we will ever know what they thought about each specific piece of evidence. I only said that would impact me. Whether that would play into a verdict, no idea. I think it's really obvious that the defense does not want the jury to believe he could have been possibly alive.

 

[arkansasmimi]

I understand that lots of folks don't believe RH could have been unaware of Cooper while RH was in the car. The fact that so many people walked right by the car and didn't see Cooper, though, in part goes to whether or not RH "must" have seen Cooper after he exited the car, before walking away.

And BTW, RH's rear window wasn't tinted, was it?

The back seat windows were darker than the front. The back hatch glass should not be as dark as the rear passenger windows to obstruct the view at night JMHO

 

[arkansasmimi]

" One thing that the Def was showing was that many people were around that veh prior to RH returning from lunch and no one noticed Cooper. Also that Stoddard/CCPD did not do a thorough investigation trying to locate any of these people. "

Why would anyone walking by be expected to notice him? The windows were tinted and he was likely asleep by then. Or weak.

And why should the detectives try to find these random people passing by? I am not sure what testimony they really have to offer if they just walked by with no notice of the car?

Never know if you don't ask them. Personally, from Stoddard testimony, I do not believe he looked. He has no proof he did or did not. Stuff like that should be noted in reports.

 

[Seasidepch]

So RHs biggest fear was leaving his baby in a hot car and watched videos - more than one on this subject. He goes into most likely air conditioned Chik-Fil-La and then carries Cooper back out to a hot car and struggles in the back seat putting Cooper into his car seat, which I bet was warm, buckles him in (also I bet pretty warm/hot) sits into the hot car himself and this does not trigger " his greatest fear". His memory is not triggered as to Hot car - need to get my baby to cool daycare. C'mon? If anyone doubts how hot it was, just watch the video of RH pulling into Home Depot in the morning. The sun is reflecting off all the cars and ever time I watch it makes me sick. The heat itself should have been a reminder! While watching RH huffing and puffing and shuffling across the parking lot IN THE HEAT while he worries if he will have enough time before the movie to get a BJ.

 

[LyndyLoo]

Just thought I would bring a sure fire deterrence for anybody who could ever possibly leave their child in the car surrounding child normally going to preschool/daycare or elementary for that matter. Since Ross's situation actually points to much aberrant behaviours, distractions etc etc etc.. His knowledge of car heat causes of horrendous death to not just youngsters but pets as well.

I am in no way blaming the Daycare Centre..however..IF Cooper's routine was to be dropped off by parent, signing in etc..WHY couldn't it be mandated..IF Child didn't turn up as usual ( regardless of which parent) not call designated parents/priority but have both contact info . When Cooper didn't turn up..and neither parent called ahead to advise..some sort of reason..then auto call to contacts to verify as to the why?

I know IF such a routine was in place..even if calling momma first..she would have said..hummm Ross was dropping Cooper off..is he NOT there?..Next call Ross..asking Ross where is Cooper?? In THIS case..Ross would have been forced to check his car..and Leanne would have known right away..Ross did not drop Cooper off!!

Personally, I don't buy Ross's forgot routine one bit... How could he..less than a minute after buckling Cooper into seat/giving kisses and kind words (of goodbye :tantrum ..he somehow forgot his " Beloved son"??? It is just too convenient to claim that ...The child was buckled in his seat less than 6 inches from his right arm!! What parent doesn't sense their child's presence??? I'm not talking about going into a bar, gets drunk and forgets..He went into work..continued his sexting and texting...and the one call asking if he got to work okay wasn't even responded to!

But, I guess my point is..maybe for parent's so irresponsible as Ross..would NOT make such a plan or mistake IF they knew if they did..THEY would be outed within an hour or two!!

Even Ross admits he was leading a double life..but it became obvious his non-public alternate "Sex Addicted life style" took over..to the point his wife and son were NOT priority much less considered important!

 

[MsMarple]

Even if you did think he's guilty, there's still a ton of evidence admitted into a court of law to support that opinion.

Exactly! Plus, so what - this isn't moot court it's a discussion forum. WS allows us to speculate based on the facts presented; we're not required to start from a position of not guilty.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by arkansasmimi View Post
They were factory tint.
Now here is what is tricky. The State contends that RH could see Cooper from outside. That the car seat could be seen by RH. So why not the other people that were near the car?

JMHO if were not looking in there to see Cooper, you wouldn't have a reason to glance in there

Yes.

It's obvious from the video, that people did not see Cooper, because they were not looking in the car. They were not even walking up to the car with their eyes on it.

Correct, and evidently didn't hear him. Or else they would have contacted security or 911. We don't see RH appear to look back there either, he was only at his veh for few seconds, open door toss in lightbulbs and close and leave. I believe total 5 seconds was the time agreed upon no more than that and gone. Again if not looking for something not going to see unless something piques your interest. JMHO

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by arkansasmimi View Post
State contends and has asked witnesses if car seat could be seen through the windows, answer yes. CSI Shumpert photos, you can see clouds in the window reflection and his testimony it was overcast. That's all I know.

I don't know the answer to this so I am genuinely asking - do we know if the witnesses saw the car seat from the front windows or the windshield? Both of which aren't tinted. Or was it not specified which Windows witnesses saw the car seat through?
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You would need to go back and listen to testimony on that. But IIRC was from the rear windows because that where the car seat was and the doors were closed. IF they couldn't and said they could, that would be false testimony under oath. But we have had that too so...

 

[justkk]

You would need to go back and listen to testimony on that. But IIRC was from the rear windows because that where the car seat was and the doors were closed. IF they couldn't and said they could, that would be false testimony under oath. But we have had that too so...

Do you remember who the witnesses were? I sort of remember some from the scene of the mall being asked this... But could be wrong. If that was the case, the doors were open while there. But, I am curious now.... Lol!

Not that I think it matters (MOO) because for ME, there is a huge difference between a general person walking through a lot into work not seeing the child in the car and RH being seated inches from Cooper in that smallish space. Especially given the size of RH and frankly the "presence" of your child. I am not arguing that RH should have seen Cooper as he was walking away from or even walking up to the vehicle.


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[Bc007]

I think it is silly for the defense to focus on random passers by and conclude anything from that. None of those people were RESPONSIBLE for Cooper that day. His father was, not them.

Personally I think they pointed out the passer by people to show the jury

1) the investigators left many stones unturned considering they could have tracked those people down if they thought it helped their case. Seemed silly to me when I listened to that part of the testimony. Ross should be able to see him by no one else should have had the same vantage point.

2) If Cooper wasnt making noise after realizong he was left alone in the car as many little ones would have done, it's easy to assume he was sleeping when Ross pulled into the lot. He was off his sleep schedule by various accounts. Seems super fast to me but I've also pulled out of different places where my kids have been very active and they have passed out really quickly. Usually it's after a party or exerting a lot of energy though. Regardless, if we see him sleeping some days at the same time of the day being carried into school and they can match receipt from a CF visit on just one day that he carried him in sleepy, then one could draw the conclusion that Ross didn't hear Cooper and it aided in him forgetting.

Another reason I think the passers by help the defense is one would think Cooper (for awake) would have started screaming and crying at some point when he realized his dad wasn't coming back and/or when he started to over heat. I couldn't sit in my car comfortably after 10 mins in June in Ga. Doesn't matter how high I had the air on prior to shutting off the car. Poor baby! It's just so heart breaking every way you look at it.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by arkansasmimi View Post
We will know, when they have a verdict. Defense has not put on their case yet. Jury should not be forming a guilt or innocence until they have heard all the testimony and evidence

I never said they would be already forming guilt or innocence. And I seriously doubt we will ever know what they thought about each specific piece of evidence. I only said that would impact me. Whether that would play into a verdict, no idea. I think it's really obvious that the defense does not want the jury to believe he could have been possibly alive.

Sorry I was quoting this post, trying to catch up. RBBM, The Def has plenty of time to still create reasonable doubt. Today we saw another Witness impeached. False testimony from the HD Security Guard. Now who saw that coming? How many witnesses have not had their testimony go hmm? JMHO so far about the only one has been for me is ME Inv Jackson. And Greg Sanders would be next. (not talking about the lab folks) Teachers seemed credible too

Originally Posted by blue22 View Post
I see what you are saying. I guess we will never know what the jury thinks about it. In many aspects the defense did a job making points against this witness. However, IMO they did a very poor job erasing the possibility, or creating major doubt that Cooper could have been alive. I feel like if I were on a jury, the possibility would really impact me. JMO

 

[Hope4More]

I was speculating on what RH might have been thinking from his perspective. Why no one discovered Cooper all morning?, Why no urgent intercom announcement, Anything happened while at lunch?,etc. So he went out there to check out the situation out of curiosity.
(I'm assuming he wanted someone else to find Cooper)

Got it.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Just thought I would bring a sure fire deterrence for anybody who could ever possibly leave their child in the car surrounding child normally going to preschool/daycare or elementary for that matter. Since Ross's situation actually points to much aberrant behaviours, distractions etc etc etc.. His knowledge of car heat causes of horrendous death to not just youngsters but pets as well.

I am in no way blaming the Daycare Centre..however..IF Cooper's routine was to be dropped off by parent, signing in etc..WHY couldn't it be mandated..IF Child didn't turn up as usual ( regardless of which parent) not call designated parents/priority but have both contact info . When Cooper didn't turn up..and neither parent called ahead to advise..some sort of reason..then auto call to contacts to verify as to the why?

I know IF such a routine was in place..even if calling momma first..she would have said..hummm Ross was dropping Cooper off..is he NOT there?..Next call Ross..asking Ross where is Cooper?? In THIS case..Ross would have been forced to check his car..and Leanne would have known right away..Ross did not drop Cooper off!!

Personally, I don't buy Ross's forgot routine one bit... How could he..less than a minute after buckling Cooper into seat/giving kisses and kind words (of goodbye :tantrum ..he somehow forgot his " Beloved son"??? It is just too convenient to claim that ...The child was buckled in his seat less than 6 inches from his right arm!! What parent doesn't sense their child's presence??? I'm not talking about going into a bar, gets drunk and forgets..He went into work..continued his sexting and texting...and the one call asking if he got to work okay wasn't even responded to!

But, I guess my point is..maybe for parent's so irresponsible as Ross..would NOT make such a plan or mistake IF they knew if they did..THEY would be outed within an hour or two!!

Even Ross admits he was leading a double life..but it became obvious his non-public alternate "Sex Addicted life style" took over..to the point his wife and son were NOT priority much less considered important!

RBBM, you say your not blaming the Daycare but think they should be mandated to call? JMHO that is kinda blaming them. It is no way their fault this happened.
I be ticked off if Daycare called checking up on me. They get paid regardless. Unless something was wrong or child had been sick or missing a ton of days then I could see calling. But this is not like a school. They have more to do than call and inquire. Mom or dad could be ill, or kid. Or just a Personal time off day. I do think the Teachers said when LH was going to be going to AL she would let them know.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by just the facts pls View Post
Even if you did think he's guilty, there's still a ton of evidence admitted into a court of law to support that opinion.

QUOTE=MsMarple;12892540]Exactly! Plus, so what - this isn't moot court it's a discussion forum. WS allows us to speculate based on the facts presented; we're not required to start from a position of not guilty.

:floorlaugh: Sorry this made me laugh

 

[Hope4More]

I think it is silly for the defense to focus on random passers by and conclude anything from that. None of those people were RESPONSIBLE for Cooper that day. His father was, not them.

Of course none of those people walking by the car were responsible for noticing Cooper, though I imagine all of them, if they are aware of the facts of this case, feel horrible they didn't see him.

The defense isn't saying anything of the kind. There's nothing silly, though, about demonstrating what imo is obvious- that it is highly unlikely Cooper was awake when those folks walked by, which is very relevant, actually.

 

[LyndyLoo]

RBBM, you say your not blaming the Daycare but think they should be mandated to call? JMHO that is kinda blaming them. It is no way their fault this happened.
I be ticked off if Daycare called checking up on me. They get paid regardless. Unless something was wrong or child had been sick or missing a ton of days then I could see calling. But this is not like a school. They have more to do than call and inquire. Mom or dad could be ill, or kid. Or just a Personal time off day. I do think the Teachers said when LH was going to be going to AL she would let them know.

Sorry, but IF you would get ticked off because the carer's of your child were concerned?? I wonder about that. Our schools always call a parent whenever a child isn't present, unless they had been notified they wold NOT be there. That give a heads up to a parent that just MAYBE something is amiss? And you say you'd be Pi$$'d off? be alerted ...SMH!!

There's a fine line of being private and being in control of what happens in a free society. Children, especially young innocent ones, are vulnerable..and it doesn't take long for child abduction..or child wondering off somewhere or getting into mischief with bad peer pressures.

WTHeck would you think the daycare would be checking up on YOU anyway?..They are checking up on your flippen' child..and why so defensive on that point??? Just wondering :thinking: