Trial - Ross Harris #8

[monkeypants]

I am trying to find a more extensive description of the jurors. Here is a rough sketch:


The six-woman, six-man jury includes a nutritionist, mechanic, a former jury foreperson, a grandmother of six whose policemen father was killed in the line of duty, two nurses and a 19-year-old college student.

http://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-ne...for-ross-harris-trial/RHdD4KcRZfERzAezEJDV7O/

Imo the 19 yr old is likely to hang this jury. This is a case of life experience imo...at 19 she has zip

 

[dizzychick]

The how to survive in prison search....Ross did not type those words. Ross typed what is prison really like.

I do believe Ross will get to find out exactly what prison life will be like, for at least 12 years from what I am reading ....

 

[monkeypants]

I am looking forward to closing too. And my niece is visiting from Boston next week. My husband was like " I can take off work on Monday and we can ALL go out to the tourist places with her that day..." EEEEKKKK....NOOOOOOOO....

" Noooo, she will be too tired from the wedding she is going to this weekend....we should let her rest on Monday, and we can all go out on TUESDAY...." :blush:

My GF called and asked if she could take my kids with hers to go see Trolls Monday (teacher work day)....I never texted YES so fast in my life!!

 

[scandinavian girl]

I have a 25 year old son, not married, no kids, have been talking to him about the case. Last night he said "but little children are so fragile, isn't it instinctive to take extra care of them?" Well, yes, that's why we are having this trial....sigh....RH had lost that instinct. :moo::thud:

or he never had it. Your son seems to be a great young man and he has it, just wanted to say that Zoobie.

 

[turaj]

My GF called and asked if she could take my kids with hers to go see Trolls Monday (teacher work day)....I never texted YES so fast in my life!!

nothing will surprise me on Monday...nothing...Kilgore will have all weekend to stir something up. If we noticed the change in demeanor by defense team then so did the jurors right in that room. I do not think the 30 min. break was to talk about Ross testifying at all...something else...after resting not sure what he can do now but apart from some LE errors which to my way of thinking do not contribute to the quilt or innocence of RH and what he did I was expected the real "reasonable doubt" to come in with Dr. Diamond...it sure did not with Brewer. I thought Brewer was brought in as a "warm up" for Dr. Diamond but that failed as he ended up confirming everything Boring brought up on cross and then the main act is cancelled. There were enough references to more witnesses that jury knows things definitely got shortened up by defense. You know some cases can be won on LE sloppy behavior or error....my opinion this is not one.

 

[turaj]

just listened again to Kilgore speaking of Ross' waiving rights...it was exceptionally detailed...exceptionally including just last weekend speaking with him in jail on this. I am on the fence...clearly this was not a done deal as I thought but not certain did he want to and they strongly advised him not to or did defense team want him to and he refused?? We may never know...what do people think?

 

[turaj]

just listened carefully to Kilgore saying that Ross does not want to testify. It seems they discussed this with him many many times including as late as Sunday...so not the done deal I thought. I am on the fence wondering if def. team wanted him to testify and he refused or was it he wanted to and they recommended he not. Any thoughts?

 

[turaj]

just listened carefully to Kilgore saying that Ross does not want to testify. It seems they discussed this with him many many times including as late as Sunday...so not the done deal I thought. I am on the fence wondering if def. team wanted him to testify and he refused or was it he wanted to and they recommended he not. Any thoughts?

 

[Jewels53]

just listened carefully to Kilgore saying that Ross does not want to testify. It seems they discussed this with him many many times including as late as Sunday...so not the done deal I thought. I am on the fence wondering if def. team wanted him to testify and he refused or was it he wanted to and they recommended he not. Any thoughts?

I think the defense knows Ross would be a disaster on cross on the stand and would not want him to testify. I would not be surprised though if Ross thought he would be fine on the stand. imo

 

[laceandruffles]

Jumping into the conversation.
First off, big thank you to all the posters. You have been keeping me up to date for the most part. I sincerely appreciate it.
Speculation, but I think it is entirely possible that a federal grand jury indicted Justin Ross Harris this past week on possession and distribution of child *advertiser censored*. The defense attorneys would be the first to be notified. They may have gotten that info Wednesday at lunch recess. (FBI had the luxury of time, since Ross was denied bail and in custody)
I suspect, regardless of outcome w/ the State’s trial, Ross will go to the Federal authorities for federal charges.
Just speculation, but it would be deflating for any defense attorney. The Federal gov’t does not mess around w/ child *advertiser censored* charges, they only charge when they have irrefutable evidence.
MOO

 

[MzOpinion8d]

The State has had to concede many errors and JMHO this was all brought to the attention (at least in front of jury) by the Defense. Then the State within days rushed and redid the figures (ea time ADA Jesse Evans was the one taking photos) Then, Grimstead again left out a measurement on his last report. This all played out in front of jury. It shows much room for reasonable doubt on any measurements taken. * When asked about the car seat to dash 10/15 & 10/16/16 there was also questions about the way orig measurment taken vs the new. This all goes towards placement and what could be see. Then you have "someone" messing with the car seat (the extension was pulled out) and this was done with the photos Grimstead took on 7/2/14, the first scans 7/8/14 of car at Crime Scene Shed, and also at the hot car reconstruction. So all those are not factual to 6/18/2014

Kilgore made the point on the Rebuttal witness that errors were made and it was left there. Kilgore wants the car seat brought back into the court room and it will be. He will no doubt point out where Cooper head was in the car seat. And the fact that the measurements in Cooper height do not match up. JMHO

** Something else that we found out on Rebuttal, the Autopsy Report was NOT admitted into evidence. I think this was stratigic by Lumkin and by Kilgore.
Lumkin read it into the record.. in front of the jury he had Dr. Frits to affirm each measurement. *on Direct that is when Evans went up and had correct the 'head' measurement... that why Evans had Stockinger to measure the doll head 11/3/2016. BUT Evans did not have the height measurements of the AR corrected. You know that Def will make an issue of this. Stoddard has made the HEAD OVER TOP OF CAR SEAT into testimony.

AR
Crown -heel 33 inches

crown-shoulder 8
shoulder-heel 23.5
31.5 inches

crown -rump 14
rump-heel 17.5
31.5

March 3, 2014 well baby check up: 2ft 7 in... 31 inches

Measurements seat to top of car seat (where butt sits to top edge of car seat per Grimstead)
19.25 inches (19 1/4 in)
-
14 inches (AR crown to rump)
5.25 inches from crown of Cooper head to the top edge of car seat. **And only 1.5 inches over the 30 inch mark not 3 inches.

There's no way there was over 5" of space from the top of Cooper's head to the top of the car seat.

 

[RANCH]

Jumping into the conversation.
First off, big thank you to all the posters. You have been keeping me up to date for the most part. I sincerely appreciate it.
Speculation, but I think it is entirely possible that a federal grand jury indicted Justin Ross Harris this past week on possession and distribution of child *advertiser censored*. The defense attorneys would be the first to be notified. They may have gotten that info Wednesday at lunch recess. (FBI had the luxury of time, since Ross was denied bail and in custody)
I suspect, regardless of outcome w/ the State’s trial, Ross will go to the Federal authorities for federal charges.
Just speculation, but it would be deflating for any defense attorney. The Federal gov’t does not mess around w/ child *advertiser censored* charges, they only charge when they have irrefutable evidence.
MOO

This "deflating" of the defense would explain what exactly? Is it the reason why the defense didn't use Dr Diamond? Or?

 

[PaperDoll]

just listened carefully to Kilgore saying that Ross does not want to testify. It seems they discussed this with him many many times including as late as Sunday...so not the done deal I thought. I am on the fence wondering if def. team wanted him to testify and he refused or was it he wanted to and they recommended he not. Any thoughts?

After everything that has come out about Ross, I wouldn't blame him for not testifying. He's not looking so good. Also, I can't see him explaining how he forgot Cooper in a 30 second time frame, or how he could not have seen him in the car seat. The State IMO would pound on him. However, I would like to see him take the stand just for chuckles.. lol Ok, maybe that was "kinda" mean of me to say, but I would be curious :thinking:

 

[RANCH]

After everything that has come out about Ross, I wouldn't blame him for not testifying. He's not looking so good. Also, I can't see him explaining how he forgot Cooper in a 30 second time frame, or how he could not have seen him in the car seat. The State IMO would pound on him. However, I would like to see him take the stand just for chuckles.. lol Ok, maybe that was "kinda" mean of me to say, but I would be curious :thinking:

The jury will be instructed to not use the fact that RH didn't testify against him. I bet that some of them will do just that anyway. JMO.

 

[LibertyandJustice4]

Random speculative thought: What if RH didn't park in a secluded spot on purpose? He was late, right? So what if the idea was that someone else would discover Cooper around lunch time so RH wouldn't have to face what he'd done? Hence the "I dreaded how he would look" comment.

 

[Hoosgirl]

So much info in these threads, apologies if I missed it ... but do we have the defense's original witness list?

 

[LibertyandJustice4]

I will never get caught back up! Darn real life...

I find it interesting that (as we have all conversed about) the AR measurements. The length does not add up to 33 inches. The only measurement that was addressed was the head circumference.
Cooper height 3/3/14 was 2ft 7in (31inches)
AR 6/19/14 has 33 inches

Cooper head circumference 3/3/13 19.09 in
AR 6/19/14 19 1/2 inches ** State/Dr. Frist said this was a typo?

Doll that used head measurement 11/3/2016 by Det. Stockinger 18 1/2 (around biggest part of head- he "eyeballed it", ADA Jesse Evans took pics as he held measuring tape)

Kilgore asked if he knew that had been errors in orig car seat measurement placement
Stockinger NO
Kilgoreid know that colleague had to come back up and remeasure because of error made
Stockinger: Did hear about that

Did you know about the errors made by the M.E?
No
Shows photo by LH mother of Cooper 4/20/14, asked if that a more reliable photo
Evans: OBJ - argumentative -sustained

Kilgore: would you agree, there was a lot of room for errors on measurements in this case
Stockinger: I guess you could say that
Kilgore: there is no evidence that this is not exactly how Cooper looked in that car seat
Stockinger: No, because I have not ever seen him in the car seat.
View attachment 104149

I've seen the discrepancy with the measurements brought up a lot. I'm taking pediatrics this term and we were JUST talking in class just over a week ago how it's actually really hard to get accurate measurements on small children. There are several ways to do it, so that probably explains why there is a difference. 2" is a pretty big difference, but maybe it had to do with how the body was positioned in death.

 

[yupikgirl]

There's no way there was over 5" of space from the top of Cooper's head to the top of the car seat.

Exactly. And in March he was 31 inches per medical records. His parents bought him a new seat for a reason- he was growing. He was in an infant seat. Not many parents keep their kid in the same seat they brought them home from the hospital in at 2 years old. I get that he wasn't a big child. I get using it in an emergency or until a second seat was bought- but he didn't fit it in properly and IMO he was seen. Actually IMO he was seen when he did fit the measurement guidelines of the seat. I could see my kids in an infant seat when they got bigger and still hadn't outgrown it per the manufacturer. Kids aren't flat like pancakes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[yupikgirl]

I've seen the discrepancy with the measurements brought up a lot. I'm taking pediatrics this term and we were JUST talking in class just over a week ago how it's actually really hard to get accurate measurements on small children. There are several ways to do it, so that probably explains why there is a difference. 2" is a pretty big difference, but maybe it had to do with how the body was positioned in death.

And the detective on the stand measured the doll head exactly how you would at a pediatricians office.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SuperTmo]

The State has had to concede many errors and JMHO this was all brought to the attention (at least in front of jury) by the Defense. Then the State within days rushed and redid the figures (ea time ADA Jesse Evans was the one taking photos) Then, Grimstead again left out a measurement on his last report. This all played out in front of jury. It shows much room for reasonable doubt on any measurements taken. * When asked about the car seat to dash 10/15 & 10/16/16 there was also questions about the way orig measurment taken vs the new. This all goes towards placement and what could be see. Then you have "someone" messing with the car seat (the extension was pulled out) and this was done with the photos Grimstead took on 7/2/14, the first scans 7/8/14 of car at Crime Scene Shed, and also at the hot car reconstruction. So all those are not factual to 6/18/2014

Kilgore made the point on the Rebuttal witness that errors were made and it was left there. Kilgore wants the car seat brought back into the court room and it will be. He will no doubt point out where Cooper head was in the car seat. And the fact that the measurements in Cooper height do not match up. JMHO

** Something else that we found out on Rebuttal, the Autopsy Report was NOT admitted into evidence. I think this was stratigic by Lumkin and by Kilgore.
Lumkin read it into the record.. in front of the jury he had Dr. Frits to affirm each measurement. *on Direct that is when Evans went up and had correct the 'head' measurement... that why Evans had Stockinger to measure the doll head 11/3/2016. BUT Evans did not have the height measurements of the AR corrected. You know that Def will make an issue of this. Stoddard has made the HEAD OVER TOP OF CAR SEAT into testimony.

AR
Crown -heel 33 inches

crown-shoulder 8
shoulder-heel 23.5
31.5 inches

crown -rump 14
rump-heel 17.5
31.5

March 3, 2014 well baby check up: 2ft 7 in... 31 inches

Measurements seat to top of car seat (where butt sits to top edge of car seat per Grimstead)
19.25 inches (19 1/4 in)
-
14 inches (AR crown to rump)
5.25 inches from crown of Cooper head to the top edge of car seat. **And only 1.5 inches over the 30 inch mark not 3 inches.

Crown to shoulder and shoulder to rump measure out to 19" which I pointed out a few days ago. But total length was 33" and that exceeded the seat capacity by 3". Regardless Cooper's big blonde head was easily seen by RH. No matter how big Cooper was, he died because of reasons that don't align with with FBS.