trial thread; 3/6/2012

[swedie]

Just to be clear, according to the Crown's opening statements, and the LFP tweeting of them here, there are 2 pieces of evidence with Tori's blood on them. One is just hers. One is Tori's and MTR's.

Also, it says here that MTR's car did have the seat prior to the abduction.

From the London Free Press Trial Updates Replay Twitter Feeds.

Thank you for that clarification WG. Also from other reports: Forensic biologists, however, were able to detect blood evidence on a rear passenger door’s rubber moulding. In forensic lingo, “Victoria Stafford cannot be excluded” as the source of the DNA retrieved from that blood swab; the probability of a randomly selected individual unrelated to Tori would coincidentally share that DNA profile “is estimated to be 1 in 28 billion,” said Gowdey.

Similar DNA from blood was found as well on the bottom of a gym bag. Rafferty was arrested on May 19. He’d spent the previous days allegedly looking to rent a car and contacting auto wreckers.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...fic-details-of-slaying-revealed-as-case-opens

Gowdey also told the jury blood was found in Rafferty's Honda Civic, and there's a 1 in 28 billion chance the blood doesn't belong to Tori, or somebody who's closely related to her.

http://www.am980.ca/channels/news/local/Story.aspx?ID=1664743

So if I try to simplify these two reports and if they are correct, blood was found in MR's car which was not Tori's, but blood found on the rubber door moulding was Tori's. So who's blood was in the car if it wasn't Tori's? Then we have this report which also claims:

Her DNA was later found in blood detected on the rear passenger door of the Civic. In one spot, on a gym bag found in the car, Tori's blood was mixed with Rafferty's.

http://www.canada.com/news/Blatchfo...urned+deadly/6254606/story.html#ixzz1oNC5XmtB

Reporter errors or DNA and blood found in four different areas, two of Tori's, one excluding Tori and one of Raffertys.
Most damaging and evidentiary would be a mixture of Tori's and MR's blood found in MR's car. I haven't read any report yet claiming TLM's blood was found anywhere. I would suspect whoever wielded the weapon/hammer would have been the one to sustain injury and shed blood. Wasn't it stated somewhere in a report from long ago, MR claimed he was into construction/maintenance or something similar which may have required him to use a hammer? :waitasec:If so, I would think a man who had practice with hammer would be less likely to injury himself using it, as apposed to a female who may have never used one, kwim? I am not saying TLM never used a hammer, just it's not as common for a woman to use a hammer. With that in mind, if Tori could fight back, TLM would have been the more likely person, between her and MR, to sustain bleeding injuries. Surely if TLM's blood was found, they would have included that information in opening statements whether this is MR's case or not. JMHO.

 

[Dee10]

Just ck'ing in to say :seeya: and am thankful this is horrific case has finally made it to trial and I have NOT forgotten precious Tori.

 

[Kittymama]

So if I try to simplify these two reports and if they are correct, blood was found in MR's car which was not Tori's, but blood found on the rubber door moulding was Tori's. So who's blood was in the car if it wasn't Tori's? Then we have this report which also claims:

Her DNA was later found in blood detected on the rear passenger door of the Civic. In one spot, on a gym bag found in the car, Tori's blood was mixed with Rafferty's.

http://www.canada.com/news/Blatchfo...urned+deadly/6254606/story.html#ixzz1oNC5XmtB

Reporter errors or DNA and blood found in four different areas, two of Tori's, one excluding Tori and one of Raffertys.
Most damaging and evidentiary would be a mixture of Tori's and MR's blood found in MR's car.

No, these are reports from different sources. My understanding is there was blood found in two different areas--on the rear passenger door (or near it--on the moulding?), and on the gym bag (in the car). I'm not sure where you're seeing that any of the blood samples excluded Tori's. Hers was on the rear door, and mixed with Rafferty's on the gym bag.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Thank you for that clarification WG. Also from other reports: Forensic biologists, however, were able to detect blood evidence on a rear passenger door’s rubber moulding. In forensic lingo, “Victoria Stafford cannot be excluded” as the source of the DNA retrieved from that blood swab; the probability of a randomly selected individual unrelated to Tori would coincidentally share that DNA profile “is estimated to be 1 in 28 billion,” said Gowdey.

Similar DNA from blood was found as well on the bottom of a gym bag. Rafferty was arrested on May 19. He’d spent the previous days allegedly looking to rent a car and contacting auto wreckers.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...fic-details-of-slaying-revealed-as-case-opens

Gowdey also told the jury blood was found in Rafferty's Honda Civic, and there's a 1 in 28 billion chance the blood doesn't belong to Tori, or somebody who's closely related to her.

http://www.am980.ca/channels/news/local/Story.aspx?ID=1664743

So if I try to simplify these two reports and if they are correct, blood was found in MR's car which was not Tori's, but blood found on the rubber door moulding was Tori's. So who's blood was in the car if it wasn't Tori's? Then we have this report which also claims:

Her DNA was later found in blood detected on the rear passenger door of the Civic. In one spot, on a gym bag found in the car, Tori's blood was mixed with Rafferty's.

http://www.canada.com/news/Blatchfo...urned+deadly/6254606/story.html#ixzz1oNC5XmtB

Reporter errors or DNA and blood found in four different areas, two of Tori's, one excluding Tori and one of Raffertys.
Most damaging and evidentiary would be a mixture of Tori's and MR's blood found in MR's car. I haven't read any report yet claiming TLM's blood was found anywhere. I would suspect whoever wielded the weapon/hammer would have been the one to sustain injury and shed blood. Wasn't it stated somewhere in a report from long ago, MR claimed he was into construction/maintenance or something similar which may have required him to use a hammer? :waitasec:If so, I would think a man who had practice with hammer would be less likely to injury himself using it, as apposed to a female who may have never used one, kwim? I am not saying TLM never used a hammer, just it's not as common for a woman to use a hammer. With that in mind, if Tori could fight back, TLM would have been the more likely person, between her and MR, to sustain bleeding injuries. Surely if TLM's blood was found, they would have included that information in opening statements whether this is MR's case or not. JMHO.

But doesn't 1 in 28 billion chance the blood doesn't belong to Tori mean that the blood was likely Tori's?

Isn't it saying that there is a low probability that it is not Tori's blood, therefore there is a high probability it is her blood? And then wouldn't that mean no one else's blood was in the car?

 

[swedie]

Yes, I believe it's likely that she was drugged. But my point is that if they had planned to kill a child days or weeks before the abduction, the car already would have had the hammer and garbage bags in it. They could have taken them from home, or purchased them any day prior in Woodstock or London - without a kidnapped child in the car. It would have made it harder to link it to the crime, too, than doing it an hour before. It was still a risk and a time delay to make a stop that shouldn't have been necessary if they knew for days that this was going to happen.

I just can't see anyone plotting an abduction and murder and saying the week before, "Okay, first let's kidnap a kid, then we drive to Guelph and buy a weapon and garbage bags, and then we take her to Mt. Forest and kill her." KWIM?

Answers to a thousand questions - hopefully, we will get them soon.

JMO

JMHO, I believe and as speculated and announced by LE right after MR's arrest, Tori was abducted for nefarious or sexual purposes. It's very likely MR wanted Tori with that gruesome plan in mind, thinking they could release her after he fulfilled his sick sexual fantasies. But once they had Tori, his tune changed or TLM's. Therefore from that point on they had to change their plans. What I would like to know is WHO came up with the abduction plan? "If" it's proven in my theory above, then it was MR's plan and TLM was his partner. Everything was planned whether it was a hour, a day, a week, a month or even a year beforehand. They were both involved, their actions were calculated, deliberate and intentional. I truly believe everything Cowdey stated in his opening statement, is true and I am now interested in the evidence to be brought forward to back up his statement. JMHO

[B]The only one who appeared unperturbed by the Crown’s disturbing, 79-minute opening statement was Rafferty himself[/B], seated in the glassed prisoner’s dock in his Pee Wee Herman slicked hair and ill-fitting grey suit.

The car then headed out of sight down the country roads Rafferty knew well, Gowdey said. At 7:47 p.m., phone records would show Rafferty had checked his voicemail near Mount Forest. Later armed with a map drawn by McClintic, a police search of farm fields in that area uncovered a rockpile under an evergreen tree.

And beneath the rocks, a green garbage purchased at Home Depot containing the remains of a broken little girl, wearing butterfly earrings and naked from the waist down.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/05/tori-staffords-innocence-no-match-for-her-hunters

"Listen carefully to the DNA evidence. It will tell you a lot," Gowdey said.

First-degree murder can be a planned and deliberate killing, a killing during a kidnapping or a killing during a sexual assault, Gowdey explained to the jury.

A person can be guilty by either committing the killing or helping another person do it, he added


http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/20...ifficult-story-about-tori-staffords-final-day

You and your family did not deserve this horrific pain afflicted upon you little Angel. You are at peace and praying your family is able to find some when all is said and done through this trial. Never to be forgotten and always loved by those who knew you. "spunky girl". :angel:

 

[swedie]

But doesn't 1 in 28 billion chance the blood doesn't belong to Tori mean that the blood was likely Tori's?

Isn't it saying that there is a low probability that it is not Tori's blood, therefore there is a high probability it is her blood? And then wouldn't that mean no one else's blood was in the car?

I could be reading it wrong but to me it sounds like the reporter is saying that particular blood is not Tori's. But yes I think you are correct. It's an awkward sentence IMO. I guess I shouldn't try and make sense out of something like this when I'm tired. I would have worded it like this: the probability of a randomly selected individual unrelated to Tori would coincidentally share that DNA profile is estimated to be 1 in 28 billion.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I could be reading it wrong but to me it sounds like the reporter is saying that particular blood is not Tori's. But yes I think you are correct. It's an awkward sentence IMO. I guess I shouldn't try and make sense out of something like this when I'm tired. I would have worded it like this: the probability of a randomly selected individual unrelated to Tori would coincidentally share that DNA profile is estimated to be 1 in 28 billion.

I understand, I can't sleep so I'm tired too. I had to look at a couple of times because it is an awkward sentence. At times my own sentences are awkward so maybe that's why I understood what was being said.

 

[matou]

There are a lot of people at the courthouse, in both the rooms and in the hallways. With MTR in a box it is difficult to tell who might be family members, unlike where in other situations the family sits right behind the defence table and could be easily identified by hand grasping when he arrives to the table. I do not know what his mother looks like and if I did, I am not sure I would recognize her after almost 3 years of stress either. What I do know is that a family member could very well be tweeting to followers (not necessarily Mike's but that particular family member) from right there in London/ All of course, is my opinion only.

When did Rafferty become "Mike"? Are you familiar with him and his family? Just wondering.

 

[matou]

There are a lot of people at the courthouse, in both the rooms and in the hallways. With MTR in a box it is difficult to tell who might be family members, unlike where in other situations the family sits right behind the defence table and could be easily identified by hand grasping when he arrives to the table. I do not know what his mother looks like and if I did, I am not sure I would recognize her after almost 3 years of stress either. What I do know is that a family member could very well be tweeting to followers (not necessarily Mike's but that particular family member) from right there in London/ All of course, is my opinion only.

Why would you feel stressed? I'm confused.

 

[Etilema]

Why would you feel stressed? I'm confused.

Seems to be referring to the mother's having been under stress, not the poster. And "Mike" is probably to differentiate from other family members.

Just speculating.

 

[matou]

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...ust-a-lovely-little-girl-teacher-recalls?bn=1

Good article. I will post in the media thread and today's trial thread as well.

At 3:30 p.m. on April 8, 2009, a dark-coloured car with dark tires and dark rims is spotted northbound on Fyfe Ave. near Oliver Stephens Public School in Woodstock. It appears to be pulling into the parking of a retirement home, a few metres from the school.

At 3:32 p.m., Tori is seen walking northbound with a woman in a puffy white jacket; the two appear to be going to the nursing home’s parking lot.

At 3:33 p.m., a dark-coloured car with dark tires and dark rims is seen fleetingly, northbound again on Fyfe.

And with that video evidence captured by different surveillance cameras, prosecutors say it puts Michael Rafferty’s car in the area of Tori’s abduction.

 

[matou]

In the opening statements, Crown Kevin Gowdey said McClintic lured Tori from her school and took her to the nursing home parking lot where Rafferty was waiting in his car, a dark-coloured Honda Civic. He then drove down Norwich Ave. to Hwy. 401 and then on to Guelph, Gowdey said.

Makes sense to me. After Tori was in the car, he drove north and then went around to Norwich to get to the 402.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...ust-a-lovely-little-girl-teacher-recalls?bn=1

 

[nursebeeme]

we are going to be moving over to the new thread in a second...

 

[nursebeeme]

new thread and a new day...!

move on over:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165071"]trial thread: 3/7/2012 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]