Trial Thread 4/13/2012

[ChaChaCha]

MR cleaned the coat no doubt about it IMHO. Don't forget he had six weeks to drool/slobber all over himself in that coat. AND all the women he was around in those six weeks? It's highly possibly Tori's hairs had worked their way into the fibres of his coat and the washing or dry cleaning chemicals could have destroyed her DNA, therefore forensics could not show who the hairs belonged to. :moo:

Excerpt from Article:


Dry cleaning won’t destroy DNA. However, it may remove it from the clothing. The same is true for a washing machine, it doesn’t destroy DNA, but it may rinse it away. The DNA will be squeaky clean, too.
DNA is very, very tough and it “lives” inside cells. Bleach can destroy DNA, but doesn’t always degrade it down to individual nucleotides, which wouldn’t be testable. It really takes a lot of the chemical to totally beat forensic DNA dyes. Some scientists use bleach to wipe down their workstations between DNA tests to prevent cross-contamination and sample mixtures.

http://www.leelofland.com/wordpress/things-writers-should-know-about-dna/

My understandinng of the two blond hairs is that there wasn't enough mitochondrial DNA available from either strand to make an identification of the source.


My conclusion is that if drycleaning or washing clothes does not destroy DNA there is no reason to suspect that car shampoo would selectively eradicate the desirable DNA from the car interior while allowing years of accumulated stains, including the semen that everybody is so fond of talking about, saliva and blood to remain.


Just saying ...

 

[nettie_82]

The landfill MTR did landscaping at is only 5.5 km away from the murder site.

 

[Ardy]

it almost seems as if she were a time bomb waiting to go off....something set her off and Tori paid the price....I was having a stupid moment:waitasec: and wondered if maybe TLM found out about all of those girls that MR was trying to hook up with at the same time as he was "dating" ??? her and this was her way of getting back at him,( kidnapping a child...murdering a child and taking him down with her)... considering her sick mind and what we now know that she had said in the past... that would be some payback...

no I don't really think that:what::what: but then again it might not be so far fetched....:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:

IMO...........TLM had a despicably bad young life.

I read she was using drugs at the age of 8....the same age as VS.

She was incarcerated 7 times, with the longest period being 14 months.

I think some terrible things happened to her when she was a child, and continued throughout her life. Overcoming all of that would be hard for such a young person.

Despite my sympathy for her terrible upbringing, I still believe she is a sociopath incapable of distinguishing the difference between her lies and the truth. In Canada, we imprison offenders, and rehabilitation isn't a goal.

Plots and acts of revenge were a common theme with TLM.

 

[nursebeeme]

AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
"You can't tell us if Michael Rafferty had sex with Tori Stafford," Derstine says. McLean says she only tested for detection of fluids

Derstine's words or the tweeters words..................not mine.

JMO

it is disgusting nonetheless (his words not yours)

 

[~n/t~]

"All I can do is think about you and think that I’m your brother, which means that I’m supposed to protect you, but I guess that I didn’t," McDonald read for her son, her own voice cracking. Daryn walked his sister home from school every day - except the fateful day she vanished.

"But still at the end of the day I still can’t say goodnight. I waited all day every day just sitting, waiting for your safe return. I’ll always love you and I’ll remember to tell my kids about you."

:tears:

http://www.pentictonherald.ca/stories_world.php?id=190657

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but respectfully, it's raped, not "had sex with." He allegedly raped her. Having sex with someone implies consent. This is not just a critique based on semantics.
IMO

That annoys me too and the first time I noticed this was Derstine saying that exact same phrase to one of the Forensics expert. It really annoyed me.

 

[flipflop]

IMO...........TLM had a despicably bad young life.

I read she was using drugs at the age of 8....the same age as VS.

She was incarcerated 7 times, with the longest period being 14 months.

I think some terrible things happened to her when she was a child, and continued throughout her life. Overcoming all of that would be hard for such a young person.

Despite my sympathy for her terrible upbringing, I still believe she is a sociopath incapable of distinguishing the difference between her lies and the truth. In Canada, we imprison offenders, and rehabilitation isn't a goal.

Plots and acts of revenge were a common theme with TLM.

TLM certainly has some serious issues going on, I don't think any type of rehabilitation would help her now anyways!!!! JMO

 

[matou]

Removing blood stains and semen stains is like removing any other substance then. It doesn't just disappear, it get moved off of a surface. Nothing is ever destroyed, true. Just moved around, like semen cells are moved onto a cloth or into a vacuum cleaner. DNA cells can move off of a coat into the rinse water of the washing machine. Imagine if sheets never really got cleaned after a really good weekend with your special friend even after washing them? Yuck. JMO

 

[JayFriend]

AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
"You can't tell us if Michael Rafferty had sex with Tori Stafford," Derstine says. McLean says she only tested for detection of fluids

Derstine's words or the tweeters words..................not mine.

JMO

(BBM) Exactly! You don't have to take whatever the defence lawyer says as gospel. For all we know, Rafferty will never testify, so Derstine is just blowing smoke to confuse the jury. There is a world of difference between "having sex" and "rape". If this lawyer keeps carrying on this way, the jury will dismiss everything he has to say.

 

[Macright]

Removing blood stains and semen stains is like removing any other substance then. It doesn't just disappear, it get moved off of a surface. Nothing is ever destroyed, true. Just moved around, like semen cells are moved onto a cloth or into a vacuum cleaner. DNA cells can move off of a coat into the rinse water of the washing machine. Imagine if sheets never really got cleaned after a really good weekend with your special friend even after washing them? Yuck. JMO

not sure if you ever watched the documentary about the filth in hotels and these were not your rent by the hour ones!!! some of these were 5* hotels....Whenever I pick up a remote in a hotel room I think of that show and what they found on a remote...sperm was one of them...thus I always travel with a Lysol spray bottle.......:maddening:

 

[Kamille]

<modsnip>

I understood the poster was referring to the 40 spots on the pea jacket...not that there was no evidence of Tori DNA in the car.... I read and reread a post to try and understand just what someone is stating....same as the newspapers...headlines are usually misleading and some of the papers quoted are really only a grade above a rag mag... :moo:

the information that we heard today about MR does nothing to change my opinion of him...I always thought he was an uneducated bum that held low paying jobs...that wasn't difficult to figure out from the start...that fact that he was on that site trying to hook up with others would fit thousands of loosers like him.... the lies he told those girls doesn't surprise me either...IMO he is sickening for his lifestyle but it still doesn't convince me that he raped TS... an accessory to the crime...of course and he deserves his punishment which no doubt he will receive in due course but without evidence I can't see how any jury can find him guilty of rape...we all know he is going down for a long time one way or the other so I am not sure why the crown needs to continue with the rape charge when they have no concrete evidence.. the word of the already convicted killer means nothing...:moo::moo: I think at this stage of the game his lawyer should just have him plead guilty to being an accessory and let him take his punishment...I feel bad for all those women who were dragged into court today...some will tar them with the same brush...:moo:

BBM

Well now there's the rub. He doesn't have that option now. He would have had that option 3 years ago if he'd called the police when this happened. Or probably still if he'd told this story upon his arrest. IF his story is true, which I highly doubt it is. And his lawyer would have known that if MR had told him this story right from the beginning. But this is not the lawyer he had right at the beginning. Perhaps that's where the fall out came from? The lawyer wanted him to co-operate and plea down his involvement and MR knew he was lying? I have no doubt if he told Hal Mattson this story he would have been advised to co-operate and lead LE to the evidence that would prove his innocence in at least the sexual assault accusation. Which would have really put the motive in question and made his story more believable.

He didn't do that then because he couldn't IMO. The DNA evidence of sexual assault would have still been evident on Victoria's body.

MOO

 

[brighidin]

AM980.ca &#8207; @AM980_Court
"You can't tell us if Michael Rafferty had sex with Tori Stafford," Derstine says. McLean says she only tested for detection of fluids

Derstine's words or the tweeters words..................not mine.

JMO

I understand that you were referencing the tweet of Derstine's statement, however, what you wrote was neither a direct quote nor a copy and paste of the tweet. This is what you wrote:

I was referring to how Derstine's final questions led to the expert saying she had no proof that MR had sex with VS, or that MR and VS were in the car at the same time together.

Derstine used that phrase on purpose to minimize what MR is accused of. Language matters and he knows it. I understand what you are saying, and I apologize for thinking that you would have said it on your own.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

IMO...........TLM had a despicably bad young life.

I read she was using drugs at the age of 8....the same age as VS.

She was incarcerated 7 times, with the longest period being 14 months.

I think some terrible things happened to her when she was a child, and continued throughout her life. Overcoming all of that would be hard for such a young person.

Despite my sympathy for her terrible upbringing, I still believe she is a sociopath incapable of distinguishing the difference between her lies and the truth. In Canada, we imprison offenders, and rehabilitation isn't a goal.

Plots and acts of revenge were a common theme with TLM.

I agree with everything you said Ardy except for the bolded part. I think TLM knows the difference between a lie and the truth. TLM lies as a matter of survival I believe. MTR's lies are part of his life. His lies are very intricate and I believe he believes his own lies and believes they are true.

 

[JayFriend]

not sure if you ever watched the documentary about the filth in hotels and these were not your rent by the hour ones!!! some of these were 5* hotels....Whenever I pick up a remote in a hotel room I think of that show and what they found on a remote...sperm was one of them...thus I always travel with a Lysol spray bottle.......:maddening:

I can believe it. Guys travelling on business, alone, *advertiser censored* available on cable...
But then, you might find the same thing in your own home if you live with a male significant other.

 

[tmhco]

The theory that TLM would go to all of the trouble of murdering a child for revenge is contradictory to all her disturbing journals. She never mentioned children. I believe she would have gone after a member of MR's family if it's revenge she wanted.

We may never know the whole story but so far she is spot on. JMO

 

[nettie_82]

IMO...........TLM had a despicably bad young life.

I read she was using drugs at the age of 8....the same age as VS.

She was incarcerated 7 times, with the longest period being 14 months.

I think some terrible things happened to her when she was a child, and continued throughout her life. Overcoming all of that would be hard for such a young person.

Despite my sympathy for her terrible upbringing, I still believe she is a sociopath incapable of distinguishing the difference between her lies and the truth. In Canada, we imprison offenders, and rehabilitation isn't a goal.

Plots and acts of revenge were a common theme with TLM.

I have to respectfully disagree with her not being able to tell the difference between her lies and the truth. IMO, if she can't tell the difference between that then she is really not in control of her own actions. It doesn't matter how bad someone's life is/was, you still have a choice. I know someone who had a TERRIBLE childhood, he grew up to make the right choices, he is now a Father/Grandfather and helps families like the one he grew up in. Everyone has a choice, TLM knows right from wrong...that is why she lies.

 

[Macright]

I can believe it. Guys travelling on business, alone, *advertiser censored* available on cable...
But then, you might find the same thing in your own home if you live with a male significant other.

well actually I was just responding to another posters comment on DNA etc. and how there will always be a trace left behind...not sure how sperm can get on a remote but you have enlightened me on how... I do live with a male but I believe him when he tells me he is just watching a hockey game down in his male cave but :waitasec: maybe I should check that out....:lurk:

 

[Kamille]

IMO...........TLM had a despicably bad young life.

I read she was using drugs at the age of 8....the same age as VS.

She was incarcerated 7 times, with the longest period being 14 months.

I think some terrible things happened to her when she was a child, and continued throughout her life. Overcoming all of that would be hard for such a young person.

Despite my sympathy for her terrible upbringing, I still believe she is a sociopath incapable of distinguishing the difference between her lies and the truth. In Canada, we imprison offenders, and rehabilitation isn't a goal.

Plots and acts of revenge were a common theme with TLM.

BBM

Do you have a link for her being incarcerated 7 times? Seems excessive for someone so young?

Do we know of any successful acts of revenge that she committed?

MOO

 

[Macright]

BBM

Do you have a link for her being incarcerated 7 times? Seems excessive for someone so young?

Do we know of any successful acts of revenge that she committed?

MOO

just the poor little doggie which she placed in a micro wave....not sure if that was for revenge but not something a normal child would do.......:moo:

 

[nursebeeme]

BBM

Do you have a link for her being incarcerated 7 times? Seems excessive for someone so young?

Do we know of any successful acts of revenge that she committed?

MOO

this lands at random: if this has not been in testimony yet we cannot discuss it. I believe her background was discussed while she was on the stand but if you start discussing it you must link to this due to the partial publication ban. Thanks to everyone for your understanding in this.