Trial Thread 4/18/2012

[Bravo]

Interesting comment from my hubby today. Of course i discuss this case here and there. I was going thru the list of things Rafferty used to attract women. One thing he pointed out whether this guy had any dance experience or not. In his opinion that was a huge chick magnet. No matter what age. His feeling was some might romanticize it and others might think wow. He pointed out how many social events we have been at and wives have to urge their spouses for a turn or two on the dance floor. Luckily i don't have that issue. Likely cuz we are middle aged and just have to get up and move. LOL I thought it a very valid point. Not many like to dance today.

 

[Wondergirl]

I just realized he had no motivation to falsify his Facebook profile and All About Me info, etc. It was his POF account he was using to meet woman, not his Facebook account. JMO

I agree!

The people who knew him in real life would take one read of that nonsense and yell "cowpucky!!!!" lol

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Interesting that he listed CSI as one of his favourite shows.

MOO

 

[flipflop]

Chapter 11: The BlackBerry. The BlackBerry allowed police to track his movements April 8 and after.

Im confused with the statement in this chapter. If LE found his blackberry data wiped out, how are they able to track his movements after the murder???? Was this done with just the phone records?????

 

[Bravo]

I was reading an article some time ago and wish i had saved it. It spoke to similar crimes and the meeting of two such minds. It stated if there is a confession by one of the two involved it is typically by the weaker of the two. The weaker being more submissive in the partnership. Nothing to do with the level of violence from either just the dynamic between the two. Most interesting.

 

[BorgQueen]

If a person had a record as a young offender, is it automatically sealed or erased. Do they need to apply to have it removed from their record? Not saying MR had a record, just looking for info.
So many questions to ask the COs tomorrow.

A bit of an answer about the young offender thing.
When I was 14, I was arrested for shoplifting. At the time, I didn't quite understand how serious the offence was. Living in poverty, I didn't have the money to get stuff that other girls my age had, and was trying desperately to 'fit in' and stop being bullied (I shoplifted mostly makeup, and a few items of clothing). Anyway, I was told by the judge that if I was 'good' (and complied with my probation order, which I did), when I was 16 my record would be sealed and couldn't be used against me, and if I continued with the good behaviour, my record would be erased completely at 18. I am 27 now, so things may have changed since then, but as I understand, if the accused had a record as a youth, and was never caught doing anything illegal since then, that record would no longer exist.
(And no, I never did it again. Standing before the judge scared the life out of me. In hindsight, he was very kind and gentle, but at the time I saw him as big and scary. I learned from my mistake, too bad many others don't...)

 

[OhSoCurious]

A bit of an answer about the young offender thing.
When I was 14, I was arrested for shoplifting. At the time, I didn't quite understand how serious the offence was. Living in poverty, I didn't have the money to get stuff that other girls my age had, and was trying desperately to 'fit in' and stop being bullied (I shoplifted mostly makeup, and a few items of clothing). Anyway, I was told by the judge that if I was 'good' (and complied with my probation order, which I did), when I was 16 my record would be sealed and couldn't be used against me, and if I continued with the good behaviour, my record would be erased completely at 18. I am 27 now, so things may have changed since then, but as I understand, if the accused had a record as a youth, and was never caught doing anything illegal since then, that record would no longer exist.
(And no, I never did it again. Standing before the judge scared the life out of me. In hindsight, he was very kind and gentle, but at the time I saw him as big and scary. I learned from my mistake, too bad many others don't...)

I knew someone with a like circumstance but they literally had to apply for a Pardon at the age of 18 to have it all deleted. I saw her piece of paper (Pardon). I think it said it was from the Queen? Could that be?

 

[BorgQueen]

I knew someone with a like circumstance but they literally had to apply for a Pardon at the age of 18 to have it all deleted. I saw her piece of paper (Pardon). I think it said it was from the Queen? Could that be?

Really? I didn't have to apply, I was told it would be done automatically. But I was also 14 so perhaps I misunderstood? Now I am worried I have a lingering record somewhere! Oh no! That mistake does not define who I am, and it is worrying to think that it is there, hanging over my head, threatening to do just that. LOL! I wonder how much it would cost to get a background check on myself to figure that out, and get rid of it if it still exists... I haven't stolen anything from anybody since, not too keen on being labelled a thief because I made an extremely poor choice as a youth.

Although, the pardon wouldn't likely be from the Queen, but from the Governor General.

 

[OhSoCurious]

Really? I didn't have to apply, I was told it would be done automatically. But I was also 14 so perhaps I misunderstood? Now I am worried I have a lingering record somewhere! Oh no! That mistake does not define who I am, and it is worrying to think that it is there, hanging over my head, threatening to do just that. LOL! I wonder how much it would cost to get a background check on myself to figure that out, and get rid of it if it still exists... I haven't stolen anything from anybody since, not too keen on being labelled a thief because I made an extremely poor choice as a youth.

Although, the pardon wouldn't likely be from the Queen, but from the Governor General.

You should look it up to be sure. I remember my friend saying that because she had to give her fingerprints, they were on file. But as she received her Pardon, the fingerprints were destroyed. Maybe I am aging myself again but this was when the Queen had more power over us. I swear it read something like The Royal Majesty has granted this Pardon? It was on card paper and half the size of an 8-1/2 by 11 page.

Never mind! I found this: DO I need a record suspension if I was a young offender?

You may need to apply for a record suspension if you were found guilty as a young person and before the specific period of time defined in youth legislation, you were convicted as an adult. The record suspension may cover both the youth and adult records. You do not need to apply for a record suspension if you were found guilty only in a youth court or youth justice court, since your record will be destroyed or archived once all applicable time periods have elapsed under the Young Offenders Act or the Youth Criminal Justice Act.

http://pbc-clcc.gc.ca/prdons/pardoninstr-eng.shtml

I guess my friend applied for hers in vain. She was happy to have and to hold it regardless.

 

[Tahorn]

What has always bothered me is the dynamics of TLM and MR relationship.

I may have missed something, but to me a causal hook up and one over night in a motel does not establish a deviant sadistic relationship to which either could trust the other enough to kidnap a child, stop at a friends, TH, gas station and then HD ... The stress of having a stolen child and then you make unnecessary stops, believing the other wouldn't crack and drive away or run from the car. Just doesn't make sense.

In an article on female serial killers, A.J. Cooper discusses women who kill with adult males. The victim, Cooper says, is usually a family member or an acquaintance, and the male accomplice is typically a boyfriend or husband. The male usually initiates the molestation and the female is usually sufficiently dependent on him to remain passive in the face of violence. She fears being abandoned or beaten. Eventually she may come to accept her role and even get "a measure of sexual/emotional gratification." Most of them have longstanding insecurity and are poorly educated. Many were abused during childhood.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/partners/team_two/3.html

Now don't get me wrong I would rather MR spend his life in jail then even risk another child ...

 

[OhSoCurious]

What has always bothered me is the dynamics of TLM and MR relationship.

I may have missed something, but to me a causal hook up and one over night in a motel does not establish a deviant sadistic relationship to which either could trust the other enough to kidnap a child, stop at a friends, TH, gas station and then HD ... The stress of having a stolen child and then you make unnecessary stops, believing the other wouldn't crack and drive away or run from the car. Just doesn't make sense.

In an article on female serial killers, A.J. Cooper discusses women who kill with adult males. The victim, Cooper says, is usually a family member or an acquaintance, and the male accomplice is typically a boyfriend or husband. The male usually initiates the molestation and the female is usually sufficiently dependent on him to remain passive in the face of violence. She fears being abandoned or beaten. Eventually she may come to accept her role and even get "a measure of sexual/emotional gratification." Most of them have longstanding insecurity and are poorly educated. Many were abused during childhood.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/partners/team_two/3.html

Now don't get me wrong I would rather MR spend his life in jail then even risk another child ...

Your thoughts on the dynamics of their "relationship" are well thought out. IMO

 

[snoofer]

Exactly what is he hiding. Also what could he have done in the past that could have caused his family disappointment? What layers is he referring to? Why the secret life?

FB I believe said he regretted the past (5 years?). What things in those 5 years does he regret?JMO

 

[BorgQueen]

You should look it up to be sure. I remember my friend saying that because she had to give her fingerprints, they were on file. But as she received her Pardon, the fingerprints were destroyed. Maybe I am aging myself again but this was when the Queen had more power over us. I swear it read something like The Royal Majesty has granted this Pardon? It was on card paper and half the size of an 8-1/2 by 11 page.

Never mind! I found this: DO I need a record suspension if I was a young offender?

You may need to apply for a record suspension if you were found guilty as a young person and before the specific period of time defined in youth legislation, you were convicted as an adult. The record suspension may cover both the youth and adult records. You do not need to apply for a record suspension if you were found guilty only in a youth court or youth justice court, since your record will be destroyed or archived once all applicable time periods have elapsed under the Young Offenders Act or the Youth Criminal Justice Act.

http://pbc-clcc.gc.ca/prdons/pardoninstr-eng.shtml

I guess my friend applied for hers in vain. She was happy to have and to hold it regardless.

Oh, thank you for that! I feel better now
So totally embarrassing, that mistake. Definitely not something I am proud of (although I AM proud that I learned from my mistake. And I AM glad I was caught.)

 

[Ardy]

Really? I didn't have to apply, I was told it would be done automatically. But I was also 14 so perhaps I misunderstood? Now I am worried I have a lingering record somewhere! Oh no! That mistake does not define who I am, and it is worrying to think that it is there, hanging over my head, threatening to do just that. LOL! I wonder how much it would cost to get a background check on myself to figure that out, and get rid of it if it still exists... I haven't stolen anything from anybody since, not too keen on being labelled a thief because I made an extremely poor choice as a youth.

Although, the pardon wouldn't likely be from the Queen, but from the Governor General.

Your YO record should have been destroyed, but you can visit your local LE and pay a fee to get a copy of your CPIC record to make sure. If it comes back with a "hit" you will need to remedy it.

Also check with the local LE where you were charged and ask them to check to make sure all the information pertaining to the charges was destroyed.

JMO.............

 

[brighidin]

When the Queen had more power over us? Before the 1931 Treaty of Westminster?

 

[Tugela]

Really? I didn't have to apply, I was told it would be done automatically. But I was also 14 so perhaps I misunderstood? Now I am worried I have a lingering record somewhere! Oh no! That mistake does not define who I am, and it is worrying to think that it is there, hanging over my head, threatening to do just that. LOL! I wonder how much it would cost to get a background check on myself to figure that out, and get rid of it if it still exists... I haven't stolen anything from anybody since, not too keen on being labelled a thief because I made an extremely poor choice as a youth.

Although, the pardon wouldn't likely be from the Queen, but from the Governor General.

The record is sealed, it isn't destroyed. If you do something later in life you can bet that they would unseal it if necessary.

 

[Tugela]

What has always bothered me is the dynamics of TLM and MR relationship.

I may have missed something, but to me a causal hook up and one over night in a motel does not establish a deviant sadistic relationship to which either could trust the other enough to kidnap a child, stop at a friends, TH, gas station and then HD ... The stress of having a stolen child and then you make unnecessary stops, believing the other wouldn't crack and drive away or run from the car. Just doesn't make sense.

In an article on female serial killers, A.J. Cooper discusses women who kill with adult males. The victim, Cooper says, is usually a family member or an acquaintance, and the male accomplice is typically a boyfriend or husband. The male usually initiates the molestation and the female is usually sufficiently dependent on him to remain passive in the face of violence. She fears being abandoned or beaten. Eventually she may come to accept her role and even get "a measure of sexual/emotional gratification." Most of them have longstanding insecurity and are poorly educated. Many were abused during childhood.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/partners/team_two/3.html

Now don't get me wrong I would rather MR spend his life in jail then even risk another child ...

She fears nothing. She is a psychopath. Don't make the mistake of thinking that she would act like a normal person.

 

[snoofer]

She fears nothing. She is a psychopath. Don't make the mistake of thinking that she would act like a normal person.

Are not sociopaths more impulsive and psychopaths are more the planners, organized, the type next door that noone would suspect. JMO Or perhaps they both are. All labels aside, what does the evidence say? Defense has an uphill battle I think JMO. If not for the actions of both a small child would not have been kidnapped, murdered, raped and disposed of like garbage. The crime would not have been hidden if not for both. JMO The evidence supports a rape, and it is the logical reason for why a man would take a child he doesn't know into his car and out of town. It is classic. The end result was predictable from the time TS went missing straight through to when we found out this male was involved and now the trial. Classic. IMO

Statistically the detectives and searchers knew what the of finding TS was alive and they also would have known in profile who they would be looking for. No surprises for them other than the overwhelming realization that this child was murdered just as their training taught them she would be. JMO