TX - Active shooter at Allen Shopping Mall, multiple victims, 6 May 2023

[AngTxGal]

He failed the military mental health exam. To me, failing his kind of screening should lead to further examination to identify people who are at risk of doing something terrible. The time to catch these types of criminals is in high school or when they enter the military or enter college BEFORE something awful happens.

No, that isn’t how a mental health exam works At all.
Hoping someone with the credentials can explain.
JMO

 

[justtrish]

Wow looking at some of his social media postings in that article posted earlier and it's clear something was really off. I wonder if anyone ever saw his postings and reported him? I wonder what happened to him that caused this... I don't even know what to call it.

Was it ever confirmed if he lived with his brother? I recall seeing something about his brother also living in the long term hotel he was at. I wonder if he interacted with anyone on a daily or even weekly basis that noticed anything like this? Did he post these things online only or was he also talking to others about the ideas and extreme beliefs. I mean he's in some website from Russia? Did he have any friends in real life? Did a friend or family member introduce him to these ideas or did he just find it online and all of this crazy Nazi belief stuff only get shared online?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Wait until you see what he posted online and then you will know what kind of problem existed. What is described in this article is only a tiny part of it but will give you an idea of the breadth of his belief system, IMO:

Texas mall shooter ranted against Jews, women and racial minorities on apparent social media page

Mauricio Garcia, 33, maintained a profile on the Russian social networking platform OK.ru, which is part of a law enforcement investigation.

www.nbcnews.com

Again, bigotry, sexism, and radicalization is not mental illness. Criminal behavior is also not mental illness. Additionally, behavior he exhibited in 2023 doesn't mean this is behavior he exhibited in 2008.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

He was given the mental health evaluation before he entered basic training. I would like to know why the FBI database wasn't notified so he would be prohibited from working for a security firm and from purchasing weapons.

Posts show mall gunman researched attack, had Nazi tattoos

His posts on a Russian social networking site suggest the 33-year-old had been planning the attack for weeks.

www.wtsp.com

Source: Army booted Texas mall gunman over mental health​

Notified of what? Until we know what the mental health exam was, I think blaming the FBI or the military is premature. The FBI wouldn't (and shouldn't, IMO) be notified of every person who is found to be a narcissist on a personality test. That would be a big waste of the FBI's time and a huge invasion of privacy for no tangible reason, IMO.

I know mass shootings are frustrating. But mental health is talking point, not a solution, IMO and IME.

 

[MyBelle]

Notified of what? Until we know what the mental health exam was, I think blaming the FBI or the military is premature. The FBI wouldn't (and shouldn't, IMO) be notified of every person who is found to be a narcissist on a personality test. That would be a big waste of the FBI's time and a huge invasion of privacy for no tangible reason, IMO.

I know mass shootings are frustrating. But mental health is talking point, not a solution, IMO and IME.

Do you know what is evaluated by a military mental health test? I sure don't but notifying the FBI is what the DOJ expects them to do so can be red flagged from purchasing guns which this mall shooter was able to do with realitive ease.

The horrific Sutherland Church shooting could have been averted if only the Air Force had notified the FBI of the shooter's violent history. I do expect taxpayer-funded government agencies to do their job. The Sutherland payout of $144.5 million will also come from pockets of taxpayers.

Firearms Checks (NICS) | Federal Bureau of Investigation

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) conducts background checks on people who want to own a firearm or explosive, as required by law.

www.fbi.gov

Since launching in 1998, more than 300 million checks have been done, leading to more than 1.5 million denials.

 

[x_files]

BBM. A good start would be having laws that prevent the mentally unstable from owning or purchasing weapons. What's scary in this case is that the shooter had worked as a security guard. If those firms don't require a mental health evaluation, they should.

JMO

I guess most states won't pass Red Flag laws, like Texas so that idea is also off the table, unless it is a Federal requirement.

 

[AngTxGal]

Sorry, you're response hit my funny bone and it is true.

I'm not aware of how the Army screens for mental health. I did know a young man, 18 who changed his mind and wanted to leave but they REFUSED< he claimed to be suicidal, wanted to kill everyone and was homosexual, and had fantasies of harming the others in his boot camp and they would NOT allow him to be discharged.
I thought it was DIFFICULT to be "removed" from the Army therefore his mental health issues were obviously unstable.

I'm at a loss for what we can do to prevent mass shootings. Besides have armed guards at every entrance of every store, mall, and school with metal detectors.
The 2nd Amendment cannot be changed. People refuse to give up their AR-15s, and Congress refuses to ban AR-15 so we are at a standstill? Now, what? we cannot help those with mental illnesses.

IMO we are not at a standstill, if people actually knew the difference between a weapon made for soldiers and one made for home protection- I think we would all agree to limit AR-15s to regulated people, for use in regulated situations, with regulated ammo.
It would be tough, the gathering and closing of all that escaped a Pandora’s box that should never have been opened, IMO.
I believe in the American spirit, dream, the people who came to find freedom, the pioneers that braved untold tragedies. I believe in the resiliency and eternal wisdom of The US Constitution, as created by our imperfect but thoughtful forefathers.
From that place, I am truly disappointed to find myself here, in this time where mass shootings of strangers in open spaces is common. WTF!!
We are an open society, and there will always be a cost and also a benefit.
I don’t care if you are Red or Blue, or Purple, I am a proud American and refuse to believe we are not capable of finding the common ground that is long overdue.
We must demand it!!
JMO

 

[WendyPeffercorn]

THis guy's FB page was a RED FLAG. He pretty much spelled out his intentions and NOT one FB friend reported him to authorities.

Mauricio Garcia, Allen Shooting Suspect: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

Mauricio Garcia is the Allen, Texas, shooting suspect, reports say.

heavy.com

It wasnt Facebook, it's a Russian based social media platform that has limited to no moderation. And he didn't have any friends, likes or comments on the posts until around mid-day today when people started finding it.

I find it odd that we have algorithms to hear us speaking and recommend products or vacations or limit our ability to argue with certain subject matters on the Internet, however we don't have things in place to trigger an alert on something of this nature. Posted pictures of an alarming amount of ammunition strapped into a vest ready to wear, journal entries violent and unstable in nature, even a screen shot of the Google search feature that shows you when a business is busiest of the outlet mall with Saturday in the hour he did it selected on the little busy grid. He has pictures of the H&M entrance where he started shooting and the parking lot surrounding it. It's not a hindsight situation, it's an if someone saw that it wouldn't have happened situation. I realize websites have the right not to moderate if they so choose, but I'm referring to the flagging of violent and criminal behavior. Is there a reason this cannot be a thing?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Do you know what is evaluated by a military mental health test? I sure don't but notifying the FBI is what the DOJ expects them to do so can be red flagged from purchasing guns which this mall shooter was able to do with realitive ease.

This is what I posted a few posts back.

TX - Active shooter at Allen Shopping Mall, multiple victims, 6 May 2023

Mauricio Garcia, 33, maintained a profile on the Russian social networking platform OK.RU, including posts referencing extremist online forums, such as 4chan, and content from white nationalists, including Nick Fuentes, an antisemitic white nationalist provocateur. In the weeks before the...

www.websleuths.com

Can you please cite your source for the DOJ's expectation? I don't see in the link you provided that it says the military has to notify the FBI, and I especially don't think that's true when it comes to personality tests. JMO. The things that would get someone discharged from the military are not necessarily things that would qualify as mental illness nor are they things that would come up under red flag laws.

The horrific Sutherland Church shooting could have been averted if only the Air Force had notified the FBI of the shooter's violent history. I do expect taxpayer-funded government agencies to do their job. The Sutherland payout of $144.5 million will also come from pockets of taxpayers.

Firearms Checks (NICS) | Federal Bureau of Investigation

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) conducts background checks on people who want to own a firearm or explosive, as required by law.

www.fbi.gov

Since launching in 1998, more than 300 million checks have been done, leading to more than 1.5 million denials.

 

[justtrish]

Notified of what? Until we know what the mental health exam was, I think blaming the FBI or the military is premature. The FBI wouldn't (and shouldn't, IMO) be notified of every person who is found to be a narcissist on a personality test. That would be a big waste of the FBI's time and a huge invasion of privacy for no tangible reason, IMO.

I know mass shootings are frustrating. But mental health is talking point, not a solution, IMO and IME.

I think it's even bigger than just mental health. I think it's focusing on it from an early age. Like how we get regular check ups to ensure we are growing properly. Why isn't speaking with a therapist say once a year as a check in a regular thing? Why can't that be covered as part of routine and expected medical care? When we normalize talking to others, making our mental health just as important as our physical health and actually providing the pathways for people to get the care they might need, then maybe things switch. As it is now we seek mental health help when there is a crisis of some type. We have to be down and out or having problems before we seek help. Yet we have preventative care for nearly everything else medical related. We don't have to wait till we have cancer, we have yearly screenings, we can get bloodwork yearly to check certain things before they become a massive problem. Now even though we hear a lot about mental health being important and doing self care, etc.. is it really? I still think "getting help" is seen as weak, especially for young men. They start to feel off or different and instead of seeking a professional to help them work through it.. they search for answers and sometimes that ends up being whatever group accepts them.. gangs, or groups with radical views. There is now a very easy way for others to prey on people, especially vulnerable people.. they just go online and there is an endless number of people to groom and manipulate.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I think it's even bigger than just mental health. I think it's focusing on it from an early age. Like how we get regular check ups to ensure we are growing properly. Why isn't speaking with a therapist say once a year as a check in a regular thing? Why can't that be covered as part of routine and expected medical care? When we normalize talking to others, making our mental health just as important as our physical health and actually providing the pathways for people to get the care they might need, then maybe things switch. As it is now we seek mental health help when there is a crisis of some type. We have to be down and out or having problems before we seek help. Yet we have preventative care for nearly everything else medical related. We don't have to wait till we have cancer, we have yearly screenings, we can get bloodwork yearly to check certain things before they become a massive problem. Now even though we hear a lot about mental health being important and doing self care, etc.. is it really? I still think "getting help" is seen as weak, especially for young men. They start to feel off or different and instead of seeking a professional to help them work through it.. they search for answers and sometimes that ends up being whatever group accepts them.. gangs, or groups with radical views. There is now a very easy way for others to prey on people, especially vulnerable people.. they just go online and there is an endless number of people to groom and manipulate.

You can't prevent mental illness through screenings. Mental health issues are also transient for the large majority of the population, unlike heart problems or cancer. You also can't force someone to tell you what's inside their head nor should you push a child to discuss something they're not ready to tell you. I don't think there's anything wrong with therapy even when you're not ill or going through anything, but it has to be by choice (and it is currently), not something we force people to do.

But also, regardless of any of the above, focusing on mental health won't curb mass shootings, IMO.

 

[MyBelle]

This is what I posted a few posts back.

TX - Active shooter at Allen Shopping Mall, multiple victims, 6 May 2023

Mauricio Garcia, 33, maintained a profile on the Russian social networking platform OK.RU, including posts referencing extremist online forums, such as 4chan, and content from white nationalists, including Nick Fuentes, an antisemitic white nationalist provocateur. In the weeks before the...

www.websleuths.com

Can you please cite your source for the DOJ's expectation? I don't see in the link you provided that it says the military has to notify the FBI, and I especially don't think that's true when it comes to personality tests. JMO. The things that would get someone discharged from the military are not necessarily things that would qualify as mental illness nor are they things that would come up under red flag laws.

Here's the DOD's requirements for military. The military also requires all medical records to be submitted. The media continues to report the shooter failed his mental health evaluation and that's why he was booted out. At that point, he should have been reported to the FBI database. That shouldn't have to be law, it should be common sense.

https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/DD/issuances/dodi/613003_vol1.PDF?ver=7fhqacc0jGX_R9_1iexudA%3D%3D

How many more settlements is the DOJ going to have to make because government agencies keep screwing up? If it isn't required now, I would think a simple phone call between AG Garland and the Dept. of Defense would be sufficient.

JMO

--$144.5 million for 2017 mass shooting at a church in Sutherland Springs, Tx because Air Force didn't notify FBI of violent history: US reaches $144.5 million settlement with Texas church shooting victims.

--$130 million for the 2018 mass shooting at Parkland FL high school because FBI didn't act on tips that poured into its tipline: U.S. to pay $130 million to resolve claims over 2018 Parkland school shooting

--$88 million for the 2015 mass shooting at a Charleston Church because FBI negligence allowed shooter to buy a gun.

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/28/1050035997/charleston-church-shooting-doj-settlement-families

 

[elevatorific]

You can't prevent mental illness through screenings. Mental health issues are also transient for the large majority of the population, unlike heart problems or cancer. You also can't force someone to tell you what's inside their head nor should you push a child to discuss something they're not ready to tell you. I don't think there's anything wrong with therapy even when you're not ill or going through anything, but it has to be by choice (and it is currently), not something we force people to do.

But also, regardless of any of the above, focusing on mental health won't curb mass shootings, IMO.

I agree that it won’t curb mass shootings, at least not in the the near- or even mid-term. And I agree that mental health care needs to be someone’s choice and not forced. But I’m sure you’re also keenly aware that many people (and parents, in the case of juveniles) don’t have the luxury of seeking it out by choice, because access and availability in much of the US is woefully inadequate.

And while, as I’ve seen you mention in other comments, mass shooters are typically not mentally ill in a psychotic sense, or in a legal sense… they aren’t mentally healthy. For starters, they’re typically suicidal. If we enable better mental health care from a young age on we’ll have less people angry, hopeless, depressed enough to cause this kind of devastation later.

imo

 

[Balthazar]

There is absolutely no test or exam that can detect that someone will be violent 15 years later. None. Human behavior is complex. We can't even predict that someone will be violent a month from now. All we can do is contain people who are at imminent risk. Criminality is not mental illness.

Source: I'm a psychiatrist.

Even if the person is posting/telling others he hates and wants to kill certain people from the time they are in high school???

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Here's the DOD's requirements for military. The military also requires all medical records to be submitted. The media continues to report the shooter failed his mental health evaluation and that's why he was booted out. At that point, he should have been reported to the FBI database. That shouldn't have to be law, it should be common sense.

https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/DD/issuances/dodi/613003_vol1.PDF?ver=7fhqacc0jGX_R9_1iexudA%3D%3D

How many more settlements is the DOJ going to have to make because government agencies keep screwing up? If it isn't required now, I would think a simple phone call between AG Garland and the Dept. of Defense would be sufficient.

JMO

--$144.5 million for 2017 mass shooting at a church in Sutherland Springs, Tx because Air Force didn't notify FBI of violent history: US reaches $144.5 million settlement with Texas church shooting victims.

--$130 million for the 2018 mass shooting at Parkland FL high school because FBI didn't act on tips that poured into its tipline: U.S. to pay $130 million to resolve claims over 2018 Parkland school shooting

--$88 million for the 2015 mass shooting at a Charleston Church because FBI negligence allowed shooter to buy a gun.

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/28/1050035997/charleston-church-shooting-doj-settlement-families

I read it quickly since it was 59 pages, but I didn't see anything in there about DOD expecting the military to report to the FBI if someone is discharged for failing a mental health exam. Can you please point to the passage you're citing?

Additionally, again, we don't know what he failed. You keep saying mental health exam, but this could literally mean anything. It does not mean that he was mentally ill. You can fail a mental health exam and not be mentally ill. Do you think they should have to report to the FBI every person who has a dependent personality disorder or narcissistic traits or even ADHD or OCD? I don't. I think it's a waste of time, especially since conditions like these are typically not firearm disqualifying ailments, IME.

Are there persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms and/or ammunition? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Yes, a person who — (1) Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year; (2) Is a fugitive from justice; (3) Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance; (4) Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a...

www.atf.gov

 

[JourneyRain]

As someone who works in mental health, our entire system is a mess. I have kids threatening various things daily but residential placements won’t accept them because they are too violent or too severe so the option is back to the same environment that may or may not have contributed to the problem. Yes. Mental health system needs an overhaul but even with that there’s only so much a therapist can do.

I’ve worked with cutters and I can remove all the sharps but if someone really wants to do it they’ll find a way. I’ve worked with those with borderline personality disorder who threaten left to right they are going to do x, y and z. However by the time the hospital staff looks at them it’s no longer imminent so back to home. People have to want to change and even have tools to change.

Unfortunately this guy appears to me to be an incel based on the ramblings on that found social media sites could have other diagnoses but words are words and not actions so there’s not much that can happen.

I had a client when the newscaster was shot on tv in VA years ago. She kept laughing at it in public became kids are desensitized to violence now. I don’t know what we can do.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I agree that it won’t curb mass shootings, at least not in the the near- or even mid-term. And I agree that mental health care needs to be someone’s choice and not forced. But I’m sure you’re also keenly aware that many people (and parents, in the case of juveniles) don’t have the luxury of seeking it out by choice, because access and availability in much of the US is woefully inadequate.

And while, as I’ve seen you mention in other comments, mass shooters are typically not mentally ill in a psychotic sense, or in a legal sense… they aren’t mentally healthy. For starters, they’re typically suicidal. If we enable better mental health care from a young age on we’ll have less people angry, hopeless, depressed enough to cause this kind of devastation later.

imo

For the record, I have no problem whatsoever with mental health resources being available in every single community -- for free. In fact, I do a lot of homeless outreach in my current job and my services are free for that population. In my last job, I worked one day a week in a free clinic as well. So yes, BY CHOICE, I would welcome any and all. I just have a problem with forcing mental healthcare on people because we know that it can do more harm than good.

The fact of the matter is, there aren't enough of us for many reasons which are beyond the scope of this thread. It's unfortunate.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Even if the person is posting/telling others he hates and wants to kill certain people from the time they are in high school???

Yes, even then. Criminality is not mental illness. Someone can be a homicidal maniac and not be mentally ill. We can't fix evil.

All doctors have a duty to warn. That means that if someone comes into my office and specifically says I'm going to kill my neighbor Larry, I have to call the police and/or warn Larry that this guy wants to kill him. But that doesn't mean the patient is mentally ill. It could mean he's just a criminal. Commitment laws say right in the text that the behavior has to be the direct result of a mental illness. Otherwise, you can't commit.

 

[MyBelle]

I read it quickly since it was 59 pages, but I didn't see anything in there about DOD expecting the military to report to the FBI if someone is discharged for failing a mental health exam. Can you please point to the passage you're citing?

Additionally, again, we don't know what he failed. You keep saying mental health exam, but this could literally mean anything. It does not mean that he was mentally ill. You can fail a mental health exam and not be mentally ill. Do you think they should have to report to the FBI every person who has a dependent personality disorder or narcissistic traits or even ADHD or OCD? I don't. I think it's a waste of time, especially since conditions like these are typically not firearm disqualifying ailments, IME.

Are there persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms and/or ammunition? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Yes, a person who — (1) Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year; (2) Is a fugitive from justice; (3) Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance; (4) Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a...

www.atf.gov

I'm citing my opinion the military has an obligation to report mental instability to the FBI database. Absolutely. That's just common sense. That database has proved very effective. Since launching in 1998, more than 300 million checks have been done, leading to more than 1.5 million denials.

My concern is public safety and the innocent lives slaughtered at a shopping mall. Nutjob extremists like the Allen shooter in this case should have had no access to firearms. If he was unfit to carry an assault weapon in the military, he was unfit to buy it EVER.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

"Texas gunman staked out massacre mall to monitor peak times three weeks before killing eight and posted details on Russian social media alongside photos of Nazis, guns and ammunition.​

• Mauricio Garcia posted about his hatred for women, Jews and black people "

Texas gunman staked out mall to track peak times weeks before shooting

Texas mall gunman Mauricio Garcia (left) reportedly scoped out the scene of his crime to track when it would be busiest three weeks before he shot dead eight people in a senseless bloodbath.

www.dailymail.co.uk