TX - Atatiana Jefferson, 28, fatally shot by police at home, Fort Worth, Oct 2019 *officer charged*

Discussion in 'Currently Awaiting Trial' started by GuyfromCanada, Oct 12, 2019.

  1. grammieto5

    grammieto5 Well-Known Member

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    I absolutely treasure my rights and my freedom. The freedom to choose, we chose to let the police in our home. We had nothing to hide, we had no fear of the police. They asked politely, non-threatening. LOL "no caving in". I believe if Dean had gone to Atatiana door, rang the bell or knocked on her door, she would be alive today.
     


  2. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    Yup. That's how it works. You "had nothing to hide". So basically, you just confirmed why you "chose" to allow a warrantless search. (Because they were so nice an all.).

    Only people who who are "hiding something" or "afraid of the police" would need 4a rights.

    You wouldn't say no thank you to the nice officers just because you didn't call them and don't need assistance, or that would make you look bad?
     
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  3. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    The officers would need to know residents phone number to call the resident. I don't think the neighbor who called police knew it, otherwise why didn't he just call them to check if everything was o'key?
     
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  4. grammieto5

    grammieto5 Well-Known Member

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    You’re making our experience with police something that it wasn’t. Yes, they were extremely nice, non-threatening, very professional. You make it sound like they charged into our home uninvited, with their guns drawn, went through all our rooms, We chose to allow a warrantless search because we had the right to choose to not have them come in, we also had the right to chose to let them come in. There was no reason to chose to not let them come in. They were there because our neighbor was being paranoid, not because we were having domestic issues and one of us called them for help. I’m pretty sure I did not state in my post we chose to let the police into our home because they were so nice and all. Whether one needs their rights, we all are entitled to them. Whether we are hiding something or are afraid of the police. If we wanted to say no thank you to the police, we would have the right to say it. We have the right to choose what to say. If we had chosen to say no to letting them come, it would not make us look bad. I’m not sure what you mean by saying it would make us look bad???? How would you handle the police coming to your home because a neighbor called them for whatever reason?
     
    Nilesil and Reasonable & Just like this.
  5. nrdsb4

    nrdsb4 Well-Known Member

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    This particular house is valued at $154K, much higher than the average for the area. The very close proximity to a major highway makes me wonder about the "safety" of the neighborhood, however. The demographics show high Hispanic concentration and it is considered a "low income" neighborhood. But the value of her home suggest otherwise to me.

    I can't really come to any solid conclusions about the neighborhood to determine reasons for the officers' behavior. Maybe someone else on WS lives in Fort Worth and can better address it.

    The kind of neighborhood one lives in shouldn't determine whether or not a LEO adheres to policy and training, but LEOs are humans who are flawed and don't necessarily always filter out their biases, implicit or otherwise.
     
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  6. Gardenista

    Gardenista Well-Known Member

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  7. MsFacetious

    MsFacetious What a Kerfuffle...

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    I don’t think most have seen them, that was my point in posting them.


    No she chose to allow them to look around because she had the choice to do so.
    The free agency, the option.
    So she exercised that right instead of her right to refuse.

    I would likely choose differently because I have two protective dogs and 2 skittish cats and 1 evil cat.... but it sounds like grammie just has a normal husband so it wasn’t a big deal.

    Neither of us has anything illegal to hide.
    Yet we would still exercise our rights by making different choices.
    That’s the beauty of freedom.
     
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  8. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    I'm not attempting to change your experience. (I apologize if I'm coming across contentious).

    I'm just pointing out, that, as you said yourself, most people don't really feel they can refuse entry without looking suspicious. That's not free choice. Not really.

    Why do we have to be "hiding something" if we would rather not invite them into our home?

    You found them pleasant and polite but would you have asked them to come in if they hadn't requested it?

    If not then they had no business in your house. (imo).

    I have stepped outside, to speak with police on a well check. They never tried to come in, there was no reason to, and as I pulled the door shut when I stepped out, I think they knew I wasn't going to ask them in.

    I also got caught in a DEA raid once (guys in the apartment below me were dealing), got tossed up against the wall in my hallway and had a gun pointed in face, once they assertained who I was and where I lived, I was able to go back up to my apartment.

    Later they knocked and asked me if they could use my place, my phone and windows, as they were still arresting people pulling up to score, and I was fine with that, (they were in and out of my apartment half the night), because we'd been waiting for something to be done about the downstairs neighbors for months.

    So it depends. I don't mind, but I'd like to think I could refuse, without feeling like a criminal. If it's such a free country an all.
     
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  9. grammieto5

    grammieto5 Well-Known Member

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    "I'm just pointing out, that, as you said yourself, most people don't really feel they can refuse entry without looking suspicious. That's not free choice. Not really."

    When did I say this. We all have the freedom to choose. I have no idea how most people feel. I know I have the freedom to chose.
    You chose to step outside. Your choice. They asked if they come inside, we chose to let them come inside.
    Freedom to choose. You made your choice, we made ours.
    I honestly don't know if we would have invited them in if they hadn't asked.
    So your experience with your neighbors and the drugs, the police asking to use your home, now for that I would have said no. Again my choice. And I wouldn't feel like a criminal for saying no.
     
    Hraefn, Nilesil and Reasonable & Just like this.
  10. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    Well, It was an inconvenience for sure, but unless you've had the experience of a gang of young Haitian men dealing drugs in your apartment building, you might not understanding my choice.

    On the top floor I had the safest vantage point of both the parking lot and the main entrance.

    I had to take into consideration the safety of both my friends on lower floors and the officers working for us.

    On a nonsense, nosy neighbor well check call, I don't have time for that.

    Eta:I didn't say you said you felt pressured, It's just, you did say, you had nothing to hide.

    imo that's not the point. We should be free to refuse just because. But your reasoning was (seemed to me) why not let them in, we don't have anything to hide.

    I get that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
    grammieto5 likes this.
  11. grammieto5

    grammieto5 Well-Known Member

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    Oh no, there was no pressure to let them in, not from them, and we had nothing to hide. If we had something to hide, then yes we would not let them in, again that would have been our choice. If we were hiding something then I'm sure my husband would have also, like you gone outside. We're not going to do something that is better hidden from LE and then let them in our home. And we have the freedom to chose to not let them in our home whether we're hiding something or not.
     
  12. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    Here’s a bit of history from another America: the Bill of Rights was designed to protect the people from their government. If the First Amendment’s right to speak out publicly was the people’s wall of security, then the Fourth Amendment’s right to privacy was its buttress.

    It was once thought that the government should neither be able to stop citizens from speaking nor peer into their lives. Think of that as the essence of the Constitutional era that ended when those towers came down on September 11, 2001. Consider how privacy worked before 9/11 and how it works now in Post-Constitutional America.

    These rights are the foundation of freedom in America, and they get weaker whenever we fail to exercise them.

    So... who cares ... just let your pleasant police officers riffle through your house.

    You have nothing to hide... or lose... except your constitutional rights which are being eroded little by little...
     
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  13. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    So, you wouldn't have assisted LE from cleaning up crime in your building, but your happy to have them in your home for unnecessary reasons. Check!
     
  14. Sillybilly

    Sillybilly Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Many posts have been removed.

    Please read The Rules.

    Racial discussion is NOT allowed. It leads to nothing but bickering and it is one of those social justice issues that will never be resolved by Websleuths members verbally sparring about it.
     
  15. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    The officers can find address by the last name. I assume the phone numbers of tenants could be listed there, too?
     
  16. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    Can I ask you a question related to my only negative experience with the police. Once, a horticulturist working at the neighbors’ yard, parked his van in my driveway. I did not see him behind the thick shrub and hit him backing off from the garage. The fault was his, it is not a parking space, so i took photos of the van, with his coworker sitting at the wheel. He immediately called the police, an old policeman came and read me a lecture about “neighbors keeping quiet”. (There was no altercation even. I don’t yell at anyone). I thought about calling my lawyer, but decided against it weighing lawyer fees against the paltry situation, and thinking that with this company, I’ll end up in minus. The man sitting at the wheel told me that the horticulturist called the police because he was “afraid you’ll sue him, miss”.
    Should I have? Because technically, the police should not come to such situations, no guns, not even yelling, residential neighborhood, just me making the photo of his sloppy incorrect parking.
     
  17. firebird

    firebird Former Member

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    Whenever there's an accident involving property damage or bodily injury it's appropriate for the police to respond, if called, to document the scene and take statements from those involved -- if for no other reason than to make sure the insurance company of the party at fault pays for the loss. The man saying he was afraid you would sue him was exactly right. Happens all the time.
     
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  18. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    However, the policeman did not even look at the cars. He just told us to be quiet. There was no protocol of the accident. This is the problem... I had the feeling these were two men against one woman. A couple of years later, with women becoming more active, I doubt he’d even come, much less speak to me in a condescending way.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  19. nrdsb4

    nrdsb4 Well-Known Member

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    That does sound sketchy! I was involved in a non injury car accident recently. I was driving in the center lane of a city street, minding my own business, when a woman pulled out of a shopping center and broadsided me. She apologized but claimed she hadn't seen me coming. She seemed to be dragging her feet on giving me her driver's license (she did provide her insurance card), so I called the police. An officer came very quickly, took all our information, and cited the other driver for failure to yield. I'm glad I had all that documentation to present to the insurance companies. The officer said calling was completely appropriate.
     
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  20. nrdsb4

    nrdsb4 Well-Known Member

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    ^^^Worse thing about the above incident:

    I had just traded in a 5 year old car for a 2020 model and had only been driving it for a couple of weeks. :mad:
     

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