GUILTY TX - Christina Morris, 23, Plano, 30 August 2014 - #34 *Arrest*

[Woe.be.gone]

JMO~
Yes there was,I think it is very important but others may not think it to be important enough(let them decide)
- even if it is off the actual Cell call records that CM dad produced and shared since Sept. when ID Discovery team & PI was here .
He had access to all of her call logs and text messages as well as the findmy iphone info. Remember she was on her Dad's account.
Guess that is where JM had the information available to give the text messages and time info when she did the interview in Sept.JMO~

Yes, picking on the one guy (who happens to be in jail w/o bond also) makes me a little uncomfortable when the other half of the pie is off limits.
Makes it appear there's only one option (other than EA acted alone). :silenced:

 

[txyorkiemom]

Can we please start a HF drug dealing thread. Pretty please with sugar on top. This will allow us to sleuth him and his co defendants. Now HF didnt kill CM but Iam still trying to figure out what was he doing during the 4 days that she was missing.

That would be amazing ..I will post there as well.

We can have it down in the cellar if needed.

 

[greenpalm]

Thanks for sharing all that. I know you know this, from being local, but it probably needs to be mentioned for those from other parts of the country that a "creek" in our DFW neighborhood areas - especially in recent years - isn't likely to be like what you think of in other states.

It's more of a creekbed, with little to no actual water moving, and no way to submerge or carry away a body downstream. (Not really much of a stream of water at all, usually). And recent years have been extra dry.

It can still be a place to conceal a body, perhaps, not in the water, but in the often-heavy bushes, trees, and undergrowth that might line both sides.

But the point being, if EA did put her in this creek, or most others in the area, she almost certainly hasn't floated away somehow and ended up miles away.

Absolutely, I stopped and photographed a typical creek near my home. There was water in it, but it wasn't running, just standing. There was debris, trash, leaves, tangled branches, briars. I don't think anyone has any reason to go down there. This particular creek bank had an improved mowed area leading up to it, then a split rail fence, then the "wild" part started on the other side of the fence. Just imagine, when you look back at my satellite image of his route, that all those miles and miles of creek bed look more or less like this. They are accessible on foot (I got to this one by parking on the backside of a church parking lot). There's Cottonwood Creek, Watter's Creek, Wilson Creek, White Rock Creek, West Rowlett Creek, Russell Creek, There's a HUGE greenspace Just South of the Frito Lay Plant, which is due west of SAL, a creek runs through it called Indian Creek, and it's pretty isolated (or was at the time this satellite photo was taken)

Anyway, here's a panorama image I took of a creek near my home. It's kind of wonky because it's six photos stitched together, but I wanted you to see how snarled and tangled with undergrowth the whole thing is.

 

[greenpalm]

But if we use that time frame we are:

1. Assuming he had her in his trunk from 5:32am until 7:30am at his house. Presumably in the trunk unless DNA comes back from their search of the house to prove he had her inside his home (either dead or alive.)
2. If she was in the trunk that long in his garage (I would assume one doesnt leave the car parked in the driveway or street with someone in the trunk) then she would have to already be deceased or died in his trunk at some point.
3. I would think a decomposing body in his trunk between the hours of say 3:58-10:00ish would make his car stink to high heavens no matter if he cleaned and cleaned and used odorban.
4. It is daylight between 7:30-10:15 so more likely a chance of being seen disposing of her than between 4am-5:32am.

I am leaning towards the 9 minutes (that we know of) that both of their phones pinged in the same area. Or between 4:56 and 5:32am when he leaves the SAL area for a second time that night and heads home. Should have only took him approx 25 minutes but it took 36 mins. Enough time to stop somewhere and quickly dispose of her and get home. We also know he did not go home by way of tollways so 2 routes he could have possibly took were on the map that was posted.

ALL JMO

Yes, this is the suspicious time frame to me too. When I break down his known locations (for what they're worth)
We know he's walking past the cameras in the garage at 3:55(ish)
We know he's going past the ATM camera leaving the garage 3 minutes later
We know he goes through the Custer and 121 gantry at 4:08

Then what happens between 4:08 & the 4:56/4:47 pings? This is when I think she died and ended up in the trunk.

That's nearly an hour (during which I'm going to guess that LE KNOWS a lot more about where he was than we do)
Then he turns off the phone, and/or throws them in the pond there at Granite Parkway, and finishes up the basics, and goes home.

I'm still pondering things and trying to fill in gaps, but I keep coming back to my maps, and I think she's somewhere in the general vicinity of his route between SAL and Home. or shortly outside of it. I know with time allowances she could be further away, but I think he disposed of her before daylight. JMHO

 

[Woe.be.gone]

If it was it must not have been a very thorough search because that dang camera had been on the list of what she may have had with her and it wasn't until weeks later that her parents reported that it was back at her and HF's house in Ft. Worth.

Yes, and the camera case, empty, was found in Christina's car.
On the Discovery ID show, Jonni explains she went to Christina's house sixteen days after Christina disappeared.
Someone posted on WS that, at the same time, Jonni packed up and removed Christina's belongings from the house. This information wasn't covered/confirmed on the show.
Jonni didn't mention the camera but, while watching the show, I remember hoping they'd get a shot of the camera (like they did of Christina's shoes and some other items).
The camera remains a mystery as to why the subject was brought up to begin with.
The camera was listed as an item to be on the lookout for during the searches.
My guess is because the camera case was in CM's car minus the camera.
Still we don't know if a witness told LE Christina had her camera with her Friday night.
If she did, it would be interesting to know how the camera ended back at her house.

 

[Gigglingtoes]

(Last sentence bolded by me.)

This thread's title has in bright red: ACTIVE SEARCH TX and JMOM posted that they search for her every day, IIRC. I also read that professional missing person searchers have done multiple searches including aerial ones using drones christened CHRISTINA.

Surely they were given the GPS coordinates from Christina's cell phone and know where to search within a reasonable range.

Wouldn't LE also give the searchers EA's cell phone and On*Star GPS data, too?

(I'm getting more confused typing this post. I thought our digital footprints made situations such as this very unlikely - the end of privacy and all of that.)

:gasp: all your bolding and red letters make me feel like I'm in trouble.

I know that the information in the court hearing regarding pings by granite parkway was new for searchers. So they didn't have that. Places that have been searched can't be talked about so all I will say is, I think searchers are doing the very best they can with the info they are given.

I kinda sounded like Tilley there.

 

[SteveS]

3. I would think a decomposing body in his trunk between the hours of say 3:58-10:00ish would make his car stink to high heavens no matter if he cleaned and cleaned and used odorban.
4. It is daylight between 7:30-10:15 so more likely a chance of being seen disposing of her than between 4am-5:32am.

Re odor, and it being an issue that fast, perhaps not. It's not instantaneous, and there may have been more than enough time to get her moved without a noticeable odor.

We know that the temp range from 4:53am to 10:53am at McKinney station was 73.0-77.0, and a slight dip to 72.0 for part of that. So it was consistently "around 75" between the time when she most likely was dead in his trunk and when he got back to the gas station at 10:15am.

This website http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...sic-medicine-smell/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us asked Dr. Lyle (the author of Forensics, A Guide For Writers and Forensics for Dummies) about how fast odor would be appearing with a constant 75 degree temp. His reply was "Under those conditions a faint musty odor would appear in about 24 hours." So we can't say an odor would have forced him to have to get her out of his car before a 7:30 trip to somewhere.

As for daylight, that would certainly be a factor. I certainly understand the pre-5:30 or pre-daylight thinking for when he removed her from his trunk. Possible, of course, you betcha. But for me, not the most likely and here's why I think that.

First, I think he went home for a bit to establish an alibi: ie, go home, act normal, then pretend to go to work and hide her when he should have been at work. In fact, he claimed "I was at work at 8, so I couldn't have been involved," and his use of that false alibi, to me, was a red flag that said to me he felt that was EXACTLY when he needed one.

Second, the fact that he wasn't at work at 8, when he really needed to be acting like all was normal, tells me something MAJOR was being done by him at that time that couldn't wait. A manager, skipping work, he had to have a HUGE HUGE HUGE crisis that couldn't wait, that kept him from going to work and pretending all was normal, and I believe we know what that emergency was..

Daylight means he had to find some place remote, of course, away from people. But there are plenty of areas with lonely deserted roads, so I think he mentally picked a place he had deen or driven past before, and went there.

 

[Doj1234]

Absolutely, I stopped and photographed a typical creek near my home. There was water in it, but it wasn't running, just standing. There was debris, trash, leaves, tangled branches, briars. I don't think anyone has any reason to go down there. This particular creek bank had an improved mowed area leading up to it, then a split rail fence, then the "wild" part started on the other side of the fence. Just imagine, when you look back at my satellite image of his route, that all those miles and miles of creek bed look more or less like this. They are accessible on foot (I got to this one by parking on the backside of a church parking lot). There's Cottonwood Creek, Watter's Creek, Wilson Creek, White Rock Creek, West Rowlett Creek, Russell Creek, There's a HUGE greenspace Just South of the Frito Lay Plant, which is due west of SAL, a creek runs through it called Indian Creek, and it's pretty isolated (or was at the time this satellite photo was taken)

Anyway, here's a panorama image I took of a creek near my home. It's kind of wonky because it's six photos stitched together, but I wanted you to see how snarled and tangled with undergrowth the whole thing is.

View attachment 68337

There are many creeks and creek beds, each of them provide foliage where a body could be hidden. However, most of the creek mileage is fairly inaccessible so the actual areas to be searched is less. There is also quite a bit of ranch land with barns and buildings that could screen a body from view. The number of potential spots is huge. I give credit to the searchers who show up every week to knock another of these spots from the 'potential' list.

The most obvious spots have already been searched I'm sure. In a couple of months when plants start growing again, the vision problems will be worse. I'm actually a little discouraged that she hasn't been found and I hope that the searchers are getting the very BEST information from LE on where to search.

 

[Latestforever]

Re odor, and it being an issue that fast, perhaps not. It's not instantaneous, and there may have been more than enough time to get her moved without a noticeable odor.

We know that the temp range from 4:53am to 10:53am at McKinney station was 73.0-77.0, and a slight dip to 72.0 for part of that. So it was consistently "around 75" between the time when she most likely was dead in his trunk and when he got back to the gas station at 10:15am.

This website http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...sic-medicine-smell/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us asked Dr. Lyle (the author of Forensics, A Guide For Writers and Forensics for Dummies) about how fast odor would be appearing with a constant 75 degree temp. His reply was "Under those conditions a faint musty odor would appear in about 24 hours." So we can't say an odor would have forced him to have to get her out of his car before a 7:30 trip to somewhere.

As for daylight, that would certainly be a factor. I certainly understand the pre-5:30 or pre-daylight thinking for when he removed her from his trunk. Possible, of course, you betcha. But for me, not the most likely and here's why I think that.

First, I think he went home for a bit to establish an alibi: ie, go home, act normal, then pretend to go to work and hide her when he should have been at work. In fact, he claimed "I was at work at 8, so I couldn't have been involved," and his use of that false alibi, to me, was a red flag that said to me he felt that was EXACTLY when he needed one.

Second, the fact that he wasn't at work at 8, when he really needed to be acting like all was normal, tells me something MAJOR was being done by him at that time that couldn't wait. A manager, skipping work, he had to have a HUGE HUGE HUGE crisis that couldn't wait, that kept him from going to work and pretending all was normal, and I believe we know what that emergency was..

Daylight means he had to find some place remote, of course, away from people. But there are plenty of areas with lonely deserted roads, so I think he mentally picked a place he had deen or driven past before, and went there.

Great post!

 

[Gigglingtoes]

Re odor, and it being an issue that fast, perhaps not. It's not instantaneous, and there may have been more than enough time to get her moved without a noticeable odor.

We know that the temp range from 4:53am to 10:53am at McKinney station was 73.0-77.0, and a slight dip to 72.0 for part of that. So it was consistently "around 75" between the time when she most likely was dead in his trunk and when he got back to the gas station at 10:15am.

This website http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...sic-medicine-smell/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us asked Dr. Lyle (the author of Forensics, A Guide For Writers and Forensics for Dummies) about how fast odor would be appearing with a constant 75 degree temp. His reply was "Under those conditions a faint musty odor would appear in about 24 hours." So we can't say an odor would have forced him to have to get her out of his car before a 7:30 trip to somewhere.

As for daylight, that would certainly be a factor. I certainly understand the pre-5:30 or pre-daylight thinking for when he removed her from his trunk. Possible, of course, you betcha. But for me, not the most likely and here's why I think that.

First, I think he went home for a bit to establish an alibi: ie, go home, act normal, then pretend to go to work and hide her when he should have been at work. In fact, he claimed "I was at work at 8, so I couldn't have been involved," and his use of that false alibi, to me, was a red flag that said to me he felt that was EXACTLY when he needed one.

Second, the fact that he wasn't at work at 8, when he really needed to be acting like all was normal, tells me something MAJOR was being done by him at that time that couldn't wait. A manager, skipping work, he had to have a HUGE HUGE HUGE crisis that couldn't wait, that kept him from going to work and pretending all was normal, and I believe we know what that emergency was..

Daylight means he had to find some place remote, of course, away from people. But there are plenty of areas with lonely deserted roads, so I think he mentally picked a place he had deen or driven past before, and went there.

Let's not forget humidity!! That weather was sweaty balls gross that weekend.

This post was amazing.

 

[Doj1234]

Re odor, and it being an issue that fast, perhaps not. It's not instantaneous, and there may have been more than enough time to get her moved without a noticeable odor.

We know that the temp range from 4:53am to 10:53am at McKinney station was 73.0-77.0, and a slight dip to 72.0 for part of that. So it was consistently "around 75" between the time when she most likely was dead in his trunk and when he got back to the gas station at 10:15am.

This website http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...sic-medicine-smell/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us asked Dr. Lyle (the author of Forensics, A Guide For Writers and Forensics for Dummies) about how fast odor would be appearing with a constant 75 degree temp. His reply was "Under those conditions a faint musty odor would appear in about 24 hours." So we can't say an odor would have forced him to have to get her out of his car before a 7:30 trip to somewhere.

As for daylight, that would certainly be a factor. I certainly understand the pre-5:30 or pre-daylight thinking for when he removed her from his trunk. Possible, of course, you betcha. But for me, not the most likely and here's why I think that.

First, I think he went home for a bit to establish an alibi: ie, go home, act normal, then pretend to go to work and hide her when he should have been at work. In fact, he claimed "I was at work at 8, so I couldn't have been involved," and his use of that false alibi, to me, was a red flag that said to me he felt that was EXACTLY when he needed one.

Second, the fact that he wasn't at work at 8, when he really needed to be acting like all was normal, tells me something MAJOR was being done by him at that time that couldn't wait. A manager, skipping work, he had to have a HUGE HUGE HUGE crisis that couldn't wait, that kept him from going to work and pretending all was normal, and I believe we know what that emergency was..

Daylight means he had to find some place remote, of course, away from people. But there are plenty of areas with lonely deserted roads, so I think he mentally picked a place he had deen or driven past before, and went there.

If we make the assumption that the odoban was necessary because of odor from decomposition, then logic says that she wasn't moved out of EA's car until sometime later. Of course, later in the day on the 30th the heat would have been much, much, hotter.

 

[txyorkiemom]

@CatherineNBC5 · Jan 15 Arochi's Camaro appears to have been captured leaving parking garage on grainy ATM camera video, can't see exactly from images

So we can scratch off the Henry's Tavern Garage motion activated cameras taking a picture or recording him leaving at 3:58am.

It is a grainy ATM video ..is that from the Bank?

 

[Latestforever]

Absolutely, I stopped and photographed a typical creek near my home. There was water in it, but it wasn't running, just standing. There was debris, trash, leaves, tangled branches, briars. I don't think anyone has any reason to go down there. This particular creek bank had an improved mowed area leading up to it, then a split rail fence, then the "wild" part started on the other side of the fence. Just imagine, when you look back at my satellite image of his route, that all those miles and miles of creek bed look more or less like this. They are accessible on foot (I got to this one by parking on the backside of a church parking lot). There's Cottonwood Creek, Watter's Creek, Wilson Creek, White Rock Creek, West Rowlett Creek, Russell Creek, There's a HUGE greenspace Just South of the Frito Lay Plant, which is due west of SAL, a creek runs through it called Indian Creek, and it's pretty isolated (or was at the time this satellite photo was taken)

Anyway, here's a panorama image I took of a creek near my home. It's kind of wonky because it's six photos stitched together, but I wanted you to see how snarled and tangled with undergrowth the whole thing is.

View attachment 68337

Thanks for all you are doing Greenpalm.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

i thought i was interesting that people where telling me the VIs were saying he was at home blah blah blah. So I decided to go a little bit OCD and read every post from the very beginning all the way through to #34 maybe by one of the VIs (carltondance and JMOM) and by to non verified but people I believe to be insiders (VI13 and Cookiez). And Interestingly enough NONE of them EVER said he was at home that night not even once.

Vi13 was not verified but carltondance who was said this about Vi13:





So its safe to say she meet and was working with the family early on at the searches etc.

This is what Vi13 had to say early on:



Well that's interesting her "friends" made a pretty damn good guess didn't they ... hmmm unless of course it wasn't a guess she knew it because all the people close to CMs family knew it because HF didn't lie to them about it if vi13 knew .... the family knew.

Also JMOM said:


oh maybe they did say it..... BUT WAIT she imiedately (2 post later made this post).



hmmmmm interesting that she jumped to immediately correct herself that she did not mean he was not in Dallas she meant he was not in plano or allen. Unless of course she knew he was in fact in Dallas and she didn't want to lie (or didn't want to set herself up for even more brow beating than the ridiculous amount she was already taking).


In my opinion HF didn't lie to the family or to LE about where he was they obviously knew. I'm sure he might have left out the details of why he was there but he didn't lie about where he was. Probably because he is not an idiot and he knows he will be the top suspect and if he lies he'll get dragged into a murder investigation and he was doing illegal activity and he knew if he lied it would only invite ten times more scrutiny on himself and his activities than he was already getting.

The only place that i can find that anyone said he was at home was uptown dallas girl who had many proven untrue statements and this is what JMOM said about UTDG:








every one is welcome to think whatever they want but I hate how just because something is repeated here enough times it suddenly becomes fact.

Jonni is the one that gave that information update on 9/18
NEW INFORMATION-as of 9/18

-Christina sent a text at 3:36am to her boyfriend who was at home asleep that said “I can’t find the keys to the house.” after no response at 3:58am, 1 minute after the surveillance footage was taken, she sent another text to her boyfriend that said, “Can you please leave the door unlocked?” –As said by her mother “This means she must have gotten a ride with someone.”

Le Singe ~ Your post took a lot of work and I appreciate it.
What is your response to the one source you missed when Jonni did state HF was at home asleep?

I make mistakes but they're usually corrected soon after they are pointed out to me.
I have no problem admitting when I've been mistaken - it happens - not trying to mislead anyone, ever.

Most importantly, thank you so much txyorkiemom for finding and linking the source of the reason for "my belief". I'm not pulling stuff out of my "everyone has one" (on purpose anyway).

 

[volcarm]

How hope le smelt his garbage cans. If there was an overpowering smell of odiban we know how she was disposed of.

 

[Gigglingtoes]

Re odor, and it being an issue that fast, perhaps not. It's not instantaneous, and there may have been more than enough time to get her moved without a noticeable odor.

We know that the temp range from 4:53am to 10:53am at McKinney station was 73.0-77.0, and a slight dip to 72.0 for part of that. So it was consistently "around 75" between the time when she most likely was dead in his trunk and when he got back to the gas station at 10:15am.

This website http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...sic-medicine-smell/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us asked Dr. Lyle (the author of Forensics, A Guide For Writers and Forensics for Dummies) about how fast odor would be appearing with a constant 75 degree temp. His reply was "Under those conditions a faint musty odor would appear in about 24 hours." So we can't say an odor would have forced him to have to get her out of his car before a 7:30 trip to somewhere.

As for daylight, that would certainly be a factor. I certainly understand the pre-5:30 or pre-daylight thinking for when he removed her from his trunk. Possible, of course, you betcha. But for me, not the most likely and here's why I think that.

First, I think he went home for a bit to establish an alibi: ie, go home, act normal, then pretend to go to work and hide her when he should have been at work. In fact, he claimed "I was at work at 8, so I couldn't have been involved," and his use of that false alibi, to me, was a red flag that said to me he felt that was EXACTLY when he needed one.

Second, the fact that he wasn't at work at 8, when he really needed to be acting like all was normal, tells me something MAJOR was being done by him at that time that couldn't wait. A manager, skipping work, he had to have a HUGE HUGE HUGE crisis that couldn't wait, that kept him from going to work and pretending all was normal, and I believe we know what that emergency was..

Daylight means he had to find some place remote, of course, away from people. But there are plenty of areas with lonely deserted roads, so I think he mentally picked a place he had deen or driven past before, and went there.

:dance: :great: :thewave: Go Steve, Go Steve, it's your birthday- :thewave: :dance:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Those two important texts, the first ones we heard about, were the basis of conversations and speculation for so many threads.
They certainly do suggest HF was at home (their home) at the time Christina was trying to leave Plano.

I know that was a long time ago (beat you to it!), but how soon we (some of us) forget!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Do we know that no-one tried to call her after 4am, I remember some discussion that some of the pings on her phone after that time might have been because people were trying to contact her. I agree that it would be odd if all attempts to contact her convieniently ceased once she got to the garage.

JMO

The Discovery ID show flashed an image of a phone that showed "28 Missed Calls".
No commentary expounded on the subject. It wasn't Christina's phone because I don't believe its been found.
It is the only info I've noticed (hinted to) about calls to CM after she disappeared.
We know her gf (not part of the group) had been trying to reach her but those records haven't been shared.
Oh and SN mentioned he tried to call CM but something no longer showed up as 'blue' indicating CM's IM (messaging app) was off.

 

[AudlyEnough]

Yes, picking on the one guy (who happens to be in jail w/o bond also) makes me a little uncomfortable when the other half of the pie is off limits.
Makes it appear there's only one option (other than EA acted alone). :silenced:

Picking on him? Ell oh ell. Is that what you call it? This guy kidnapped Christina, threw her into the trunk of his car (after doing something violent to her, since her blood was in his trunk), and refuses to tell where she is... Yeah, I think I'm OK with "picking" on him. Obviously, my opinion.

 

[Faithx2]

Re odor, and it being an issue that fast, perhaps not. It's not instantaneous, and there may have been more than enough time to get her moved without a noticeable odor.

We know that the temp range from 4:53am to 10:53am at McKinney station was 73.0-77.0, and a slight dip to 72.0 for part of that. So it was consistently "around 75" between the time when she most likely was dead in his trunk and when he got back to the gas station at 10:15am.

This website http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...sic-medicine-smell/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us asked Dr. Lyle (the author of Forensics, A Guide For Writers and Forensics for Dummies) about how fast odor would be appearing with a constant 75 degree temp. His reply was "Under those conditions a faint musty odor would appear in about 24 hours." So we can't say an odor would have forced him to have to get her out of his car before a 7:30 trip to somewhere.

As for daylight, that would certainly be a factor. I certainly understand the pre-5:30 or pre-daylight thinking for when he removed her from his trunk. Possible, of course, you betcha. But for me, not the most likely and here's why I think that.

First, I think he went home for a bit to establish an alibi: ie, go home, act normal, then pretend to go to work and hide her when he should have been at work. In fact, he claimed "I was at work at 8, so I couldn't have been involved," and his use of that false alibi, to me, was a red flag that said to me he felt that was EXACTLY when he needed one.

Second, the fact that he wasn't at work at 8, when he really needed to be acting like all was normal, tells me something MAJOR was being done by him at that time that couldn't wait. A manager, skipping work, he had to have a HUGE HUGE HUGE crisis that couldn't wait, that kept him from going to work and pretending all was normal, and I believe we know what that emergency was..

Daylight means he had to find some place remote, of course, away from people. But there are plenty of areas with lonely deserted roads, so I think he mentally picked a place he had deen or driven past before, and went there.

Thanks for the link and good point about his lie about work at 8am. Obviously, his parents and brother would have known he was lying in his interview had he said he had to be at work at 8 but they knew he didnt leave until 10ish...right before the gas up at the Krogers at 10:15. So it would be good logic that he gets up and gets ready for work and leaves...so what did he do for those 3 hours would be a good question and leave time for an hour to hour and half drive somewhere.

imo jmo moo