TX TX - Houston, 'Swimsuit Boy' WhtMale 15-19, UP4547, Dean Corll victim, Aug'73

[Houston Mom]

I did submit JD, but no word back. There is a lot of waiting in this business.

 

[Houston Mom]

While we wait, consider this new addition to NamUs:

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Word back from Dr D. is the timeframe of decomposition is off for John to be Swimsuit boy. Also is DNA is complete so there should have been a hit. She agreed that there is a likeness to the reconstruction.

Pokeypuppy67 and word on you possible match??

 

[Houston Mom]

JHowell went missing in 1969 at the age of nine. His DNA is complete, but his profile is only a two star. HMMM.....

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Have you seen this child? James Howell

 

[pokypuppy67]

I haven't heard anything more from the detective, other than that the investigation is still ongoing.

I have a harder time seeing Jimmy as Swimsuit boy; their ears aren't alike at all. I found scans of all my old school pics and was studying the structural changes in my facial development...and in the ones that showed my ears, my ears never changed. In fact, they still look the same today as they did when I was in first grade.

What month and year did the Doc establish as Sboy's time of death? Do you guys remember?

 

[CarlK90245]

I have a harder time seeing Jimmy as Swimsuit boy; their ears aren't alike at all. I found scans of all my old school pics and was studying the structural changes in my facial development...and in the ones that showed my ears, my ears never changed. In fact, they still look the same today as they did when I was in first grade.

This reconstruction was done from skeletal remains. It is likely that the ears are completely a guess.

 

[Houston Mom]

Here is an addition collage of Jimmy with inclusion of a reconstruction of what he might look like today. I realize that Corll's victems were mostly from the Houston area, but I read that he stated that he was involved in a Dallas ring that "bought and sold young boys"

Question, was Mark Scott ever found and has he been ruled out as Swimsuit boy? Pokeypuppy, it is best, IMO, to contact Dr. D. on your find; I find little response from LE.

 

[Snoods]

Here is an addition collage of Jimmy with inclusion of a reconstruction of what he might look like today. I realize that Corll's victems were mostly from the Houston area, but I read that he stated that he was involved in a Dallas ring that "bought and sold young boys"

Question, was Mark Scott ever found and has he been ruled out as Swimsuit boy? Pokeypuppy, it is best, IMO, to contact Dr. D. on your find; I find little response from LE.

No, Mark Scott has never been found, even though Elmer Wayne Henley continues to pinpoint the exact location he is buried at High Island. No further excavations have ever been done in that area, even though more bodies are almost certainly there. From the beginning Houston Police Department has always swept this under the rug, it was an enormous embarrassment for their department.

Mark Scott's family were given remains that they thought were their son's for years, but DNA tests done on the remains in 2011 proved that they weren't Mark's.

So Mark is still one of the Lost Boys. I'm not aware if he has been ruled out as Swimsuit Boy or not.

 

[pokypuppy67]

Oh, duh. Yeah. I forgot we were dealing with skeletal remains. My bad. I'm only slightly dumber than I seem. Really. :facepalm:

 

[Houston Mom]

No, Mark Scott has never been found, even though Elmer Wayne Henley continues to pinpoint the exact location he is buried at High Island. No further excavations have ever been done in that area, even though more bodies are almost certainly there. From the beginning Houston Police Department has always swept this under the rug, it was an enormous embarrassment for their department.

Mark Scott's family were given remains that they thought were their son's for years, but DNA tests done on the remains in 2011 proved that they weren't Mark's.

So Mark is still one of the Lost Boys. I'm not aware if he has been ruled out as Swimsuit Boy or not.

So I wonder why Mark is not posted on any missing persons site?

 

[Snoods]

I don't know, Houston Mom.

Here is an excerpt from an excellent article Skip Hollandsworth from Texas Monthly wrote about the murders, there are several more he wrote but I can't find them at the moment. When I find them I'll post links to them here.

EXCERPTIn 1994, more than two decades after the murders, the medical examiner’s office presented the Scotts with remains that they said they believed were Mark’s, based on early versions of DNA identification. Although the family had the remains cremated and placed in the family columbarium at the Chapel of the Chimes at Brookside Memorial Park, they were still not convinced they had been given the right boy.

Fortunately, the medical examiner’s office had kept a single bone from the remains that had been given to the Scotts. When she visited Mrs. Scott and Jeff, Derrick said that because DNA technology was now so advanced, she would be able to let them know if Mark was in their columbarium. All she had to do was get a DNA sample from one of them and compare it with a new sample she had taken from the bone. “I think this might give you some peace of mind,” Derrick said to Mrs. Scott, who nodded and replied, “I would like to know.” Derrick swabbed Jeff’s cheek and returned to her office, where she sent the DNA to a laboratory at the University of North Texas to be processed.

Finally, in February of this year, Derrick received the results. She returned to the Scotts’ home and asked Mrs. Scott and Jeff to sit down. In what she would later describe as one of the saddest moments of her career, she told them that the DNA from Jeff’s swab didn’t match the DNA that came from the bone. The conclusion was inescapable: Mark was somewhere else. Derrick said that his remains were probably still at High Island.

Much much more at link
http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/lost-boys-0/page/0/10

 

[Snoods]

Here is an addition collage of Jimmy with inclusion of a reconstruction of what he might look like today. I realize that Corll's victems were mostly from the Houston area, but I read that he stated that he was involved in a Dallas ring that "bought and sold young boys"

Question, was Mark Scott ever found and has he been ruled out as Swimsuit boy? Pokeypuppy, it is best, IMO, to contact Dr. D. on your find; I find little response from LE.

I do have this information about Swimsuit boy, he was found buried at the boat house shed and Henley has always maintained that Mark Scott was buried at High Island. He's even given details of the position he was buried in and the exact location. He has said for years that the person the Scott's thought was their son wasn't, because that boy was found buried at the boat stall. When the boy turned out to not be Scott, Elmer reportedly said, "See, I told you. I know where Mark is buried."

 

[Snoods]

Just one of many statements from Henley about Mark Scott:

Excerpt:
But Henley said he's never said that because he knows where Scott was buried.
"It was High Island. In the Sand. Fetal Position. Head up," Henley said in the recording. <modsnip: broken link>

Here are details about Swimsuit Boy and the reason I believe Henley is because he correctly identified where all the other boys were buried, when specifically asked.

Excerpt:
But Derrick says we know a few more things about this unidentified teen. The Institute of Forensic Sciences has the clothes that were buried with him. When he was kidnapped, he was likely wearing a striped, multi-colored, Catalina swimsuit, a tan shirt with a peace sign on the back, and cowboy boots. We also know he was buried in Corll&#8217;s largest graveyard, a rented boat shed in Southwest Houston. The boys who were buried near him have been identified. Those boys all disappeared in 1971 or 1972. That may narrow down the period of time during which the unidentified boy disappeared. <modsnip: broken link>

 

[pokypuppy67]

What if we looked at this Differently? I mean, we can't seem to find him anywhere among those reported missing. So maybe we should be looking for him among those NOT reported missing.

I'm just thinking that there's a very good chance that someone knew he was planning to go swimming, and maybe at a local beach or lake, so when he never returned home, they and the authorities might have concluded that he had drowned, as opposed to thinking that someone had taken him or done something to him. I think that would be the logical assumption, especially if he HAD made it to his swimming destination (before meeting up with Corll) and had been seen there. But even if not. If they presumed that he had drowned then they wouldn't necessarily be looking for him, which could explain why we can't find any missing reports that match up. Maybe we should be looking for a boy wearing striped swim trunks who was declared dead by drowning.

 

[pokypuppy67]

I was thinking about his clothes, too. They don't make a lot of sense. Who wears an ankle bracelet with cowboy boots? The ankle bracelet would just be hidden by the boots and, being knotted, I would think wouldn't fit well under them. And who wears cowboy boots with swim trunks? Or maybe that's normal in Texas. I don't know.

But the people I've known who wore anklets like that are usually canvas shoes or sneakers people, and would normally wear them with shorts (or trunks) so that the anklets could be seen. I live in Michigan and grew up on the water, and it always seemed to be the swimming/sailing/beach people who dressed like that. During the summers we would come up north; I remember my sailing buddy Chuck used to wear a knotted rope anklet.

Or else maybe swimsuit boy changed into clothes that Corll had in his house from prior victims. Did they ever confirm that the swim trunks didn't belong to either David Hilligeist or Malley Winkle? We know they were both headed to the pool that day.

Just trying to figure out why this kid is so hard to ID. Surely somebody somewhere was missing him.

 

[Snoods]

What if we looked at this Differently? I mean, we can't seem to find him anywhere among those reported missing. So maybe we should be looking for him among those NOT reported missing.

I'm just thinking that there's a very good chance that someone knew he was planning to go swimming, and maybe at a local beach or lake, so when he never returned home, they and the authorities might have concluded that he had drowned, as opposed to thinking that someone had taken him or done something to him. I think that would be the logical assumption, especially if he HAD made it to his swimming destination (before meeting up with Corll) and had been seen there. But even if not. If they presumed that he had drowned then they wouldn't necessarily be looking for him, which could explain why we can't find any missing reports that match up. Maybe we should be looking for a boy wearing striped swim trunks who was declared dead by drowning.

That's a great thought, way to think outside the box Poky. Although how to search from there?

 

[Snoods]

I was thinking about his clothes, too. They don't make a lot of sense. Who wears an ankle bracelet with cowboy boots? The ankle bracelet would just be hidden by the boots and, being knotted, I would think wouldn't fit well under them. And who wears cowboy boots with swim trunks? Or maybe that's normal in Texas. I don't know.

But the people I've known who wore anklets like that are usually canvas shoes or sneakers people, and would normally wear them with shorts (or trunks) so that the anklets could be seen. I live in Michigan and grew up on the water, and it always seemed to be the swimming/sailing/beach people who dressed like that. During the summers we would come up north; I remember my sailing buddy Chuck used to wear a knotted rope anklet.

Or else maybe swimsuit boy changed into clothes that Corll had in his house from prior victims. Did they ever confirm that the swim trunks didn't belong to either David Hilligeist or Malley Winkle? We know they were both headed to the pool that day.

Just trying to figure out why this kid is so hard to ID. Surely somebody somewhere was missing him.

BBM Haha Poky, too funny. I've lived in Texas all my life and I must have missed the cowboy boots and swimsuit trend. Houston mom, what's your opinion on that?

I don't think we can 100% assume the clothes found bundled up with swimsuit boy are even his, do you? Summers are extremely hot and humid in Texas and pairing boots and a swimsuit doesn't seem likely. I hate to throw that into the already impossible mix, but it is what it is.

I believe David's mom would have 100% recognized his swimsuit, she doted on that boy. I absolutely believe if she thought those were David's trunks she would have said so, Malley's mom as well.

 

[Snoods]

If you're as fascinated by this case as I am, y'all should check out this article. Actually it's the comments under the article that I find interesting. Many of them are from the survivor, Rhonda Williams, and the sister of David Brooks, one of the murderers.

http://crime.about.com/b/2013/05/30/flashback-dean-corll-and-the-houston-mass-murders.htm

 

[pokypuppy67]

Okay, there's a guy who went missing in 1972 who is not on the exclusions list. He was on vacation from Med School at Cambridge University in England. He was in California when he disappeared and was planning on going to Florida. He disappeared July 24th. His name is Dikran Knadjian. He was much heavier...I don't know if that would be discernible with decomposition. Most likely he died in Yosemite but Corll did say he killed people in CA.

Dikran Knadjian – The Charley Project

 

[pokypuppy67]

I'm reading "The man with the candy" right now. Malley was wearing gray and white striped swim trunks so that eliminates his. David's I don't think are described, though, yeah, with his mother being so involved she must have seen swimsuit boy's clothes.

 

[Houston Mom]

pokypuppy76 who is Malley and is he on any missing site?