Identified! TX - Houston, WhtFem 18-25, UP701 & WhtMale 20-30, UP703, in woods, Jan'81 - Dean and Tina Clouse

Someone proposed another reason why Dean & Tina's bodies were discovered in Houston:

Is it possible that Dean and Tina, for whatever reason, decided to return to Florida and their families? If so, they probably would have traveled south from Lewisburg, TX to I-10, the main east-west interstate that connects Texas and Florida. The place where their bodies were found off Wallisville Rd. in Houston was just a couple of miles from I-10.


Maybe they encountered the cult people in Lewisburg. They pressured them to give up their baby and do work for them. They decided not to and left to return to Florida. The cult folks followed them, intercepted them in Houston where they were murdered and bodies dumped. Cult then took the car and baby, leaving for the west coast. They stopped in AZ to sell/get rid of the baby. After arriving in Los Angeles/Southern California, they decided to return the car to Dean's family in FL.


JMO
 
You can watch the 20/20 Episode here Watch 20/20 Season 46 Episode 6 Baby Holly Found Online

The first half was stuff I already knew, but it got interesting when he finally sat down and spoke with Holly!

Holly was brought to the church on Nov 8, 1980
Something interesting happened in 1991
Holly was identified and approached by going through Oklahoma Driver's License database and looking at driver's license pictures etc.
They speak with Sister Susan on the phone.
They are in touch with a friend of Tina's who might have been in the cult too.
MOO Even if they learn stuff from her friend, I doubt we will find out anything because they likely won't have physical evidence etc. MOO
They don't have any leads.
Dean's mother sadly passed away a few weeks ago.
 
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Just finished the 20.20 on this and was confused/surprised by one thing - which seeing as it’s an active investigation, is hopefully a red herring.

But why was it presented by the investigators, and Holly/the families, that Tina was the one to hand over the baby? I was waiting for the obvious question from David Muir to Hollys adoptive father - was this the woman who was holding the baby in the car - but it never came.

I just find it so much more likely that Dean and Tina never made it west of Texas. I was shocked (and saddened) that holly seemed to be sure it was her mother handing her over, when I feel like odds are greater that it was someone else. Based on the following :

  • Despite having both of their immediate families in New Smyrna, and a brand new baby - they pack up and leave without a plan to Maryland (where they dont seem to know anyone), then move on to Texas where they have somewhere to stay with deans family. Was Dean being harassed by the cult at this point already, and trying to get away?
  • As soon as they get their own place, they aren’t heard from again. These groups were known for traveling around and taking advantage of anyone they knew outside the cult. Especially if this new address was a home on land, I wouldn’t be surprised if the cult showed up right after Dean told one of his old friends about his new house, demanding to stay.
  • At this point Dean and Tina may have attempted to kick them out for conducting their illegal activities there, or just being a nuisance. The cult would have wanted the use of the property and the car more, and could have killed Tina and Dean for it. I could definitely see female members of the cult arguing to keep the baby alive and drop her off after they move on.
  • To me it’s no coincidence that three women have the car to drop off holly, and three women drop off the car months later. I am completely suspicious of Sister Susan. She was clearly lying to David Muir when she said she never met them. And the sarcastic “I’m praying for you” at the end just enraged me. I would be very interested to know the timeline of when Tina/Deans family contacted the Salvation Army vs. when they decided to go drop off the car. The family said the Salvation Army was going to check driving records first, and it seems like a coincidence that the car then gets magically returned. It could have been the cult was planning on keeping the car but got word that SA was looking for it and decided the best thing was to drive it completely across the country and scam Deans mom at the same time.
  • The fact that they were found east of where they lived in Texas, yet the baby went all the way to Arizona, and the car the baby was in the ended up in LA, is just not passing Occam’s razor .

In all I do not think the couple ever made it out of Texas. Whether or not Dean could have grown caught back up in he cult I don’t know. It seems incredibly unlikely that Tina would be capable of changing her feelings about her baby so quickly, but again you never know. The one glaringly obvious issue here is that, like members of the cult admitted, children were always left with relatives or friends. There were close family in both Texas and Florida, seemingly at least two sets of grandparents of holly as well as multiple aunts and uncles, where Tina and Dean would have left Holly. And Dean and Tina were either dumped far enough away (or were followed on their way back to Florida), in a part of Texas where nobody would think of them if the bodies were found.

These groups were grifters, and well versed in the law. Someone would have known the rules about posting in the paper for adoptions, so purposefully drove Holly to Arizona where nobody reading the paper would recognize her name/age.

And Sister Susan, if you’re reading this. The truth will set you free.
 
Just finished the 20.20 on this and was confused/surprised by one thing - which seeing as it’s an active investigation, is hopefully a red herring.

But why was it presented by the investigators, and Holly/the families, that Tina was the one to hand over the baby? I was waiting for the obvious question from David Muir to Hollys adoptive father - was this the woman who was holding the baby in the car - but it never came.

I just find it so much more likely that Dean and Tina never made it west of Texas. I was shocked (and saddened) that holly seemed to be sure it was her mother handing her over, when I feel like odds are greater that it was someone else. Based on the following :

  • Despite having both of their immediate families in New Smyrna, and a brand new baby - they pack up and leave without a plan to Maryland (where they dont seem to know anyone), then move on to Texas where they have somewhere to stay with deans family. Was Dean being harassed by the cult at this point already, and trying to get away?
  • As soon as they get their own place, they aren’t heard from again. These groups were known for traveling around and taking advantage of anyone they knew outside the cult. Especially if this new address was a home on land, I wouldn’t be surprised if the cult showed up right after Dean told one of his old friends about his new house, demanding to stay.
  • At this point Dean and Tina may have attempted to kick them out for conducting their illegal activities there, or just being a nuisance. The cult would have wanted the use of the property and the car more, and could have killed Tina and Dean for it. I could definitely see female members of the cult arguing to keep the baby alive and drop her off after they move on.
  • To me it’s no coincidence that three women have the car to drop off holly, and three women drop off the car months later. I am completely suspicious of Sister Susan. She was clearly lying to David Muir when she said she never met them. And the sarcastic “I’m praying for you” at the end just enraged me. I would be very interested to know the timeline of when Tina/Deans family contacted the Salvation Army vs. when they decided to go drop off the car. The family said the Salvation Army was going to check driving records first, and it seems like a coincidence that the car then gets magically returned. It could have been the cult was planning on keeping the car but got word that SA was looking for it and decided the best thing was to drive it completely across the country and scam Deans mom at the same time.
  • The fact that they were found east of where they lived in Texas, yet the baby went all the way to Arizona, and the car the baby was in the ended up in LA, is just not passing Occam’s razor .

In all I do not think the couple ever made it out of Texas. Whether or not Dean could have grown caught back up in he cult I don’t know. It seems incredibly unlikely that Tina would be capable of changing her feelings about her baby so quickly, but again you never know. The one glaringly obvious issue here is that, like members of the cult admitted, children were always left with relatives or friends. There were close family in both Texas and Florida, seemingly at least two sets of grandparents of holly as well as multiple aunts and uncles, where Tina and Dean would have left Holly. And Dean and Tina were either dumped far enough away (or were followed on their way back to Florida), in a part of Texas where nobody would think of them if the bodies were found.

These groups were grifters, and well versed in the law. Someone would have known the rules about posting in the paper for adoptions, so purposefully drove Holly to Arizona where nobody reading the paper would recognize her name/age.

And Sister Susan, if you’re reading this. The truth will set you free.
you might want to search for a recent interview Holly did when promoting her book. The way I read it, she thinks something bad happened with the cult. She said some things she didn't say in the 20/20 episode. I hope to get her book when it hits the market.



There was also an interview with Dean's sister who went along to meet the cult members when they returned Dean's car. She said Sister Susan's account of what happened and what was said that night is incorrect.

ETA: I also think everyone is supporting the story that Holly's parents did go to Arizona and consented to have her adopted because that's what the Texas AG's cold case unit believes. JMO, I don't think all of them believe that, but they didn't want to have a disagreement with the Texas AG's office on the 20/20 show.

from the People Magazine article linked above

Investigators believe Dean and Tina joined the Christ Family after they moved to Texas and followed them to Arizona where the group — which was led by Charles McHugh, also known as Jesus Christ Lightning Amen — had a winter camp near Blythe, California, about 40 miles from Yuma.

Holly has said she would like someone to analyze the handwriting on Dean's letter to see if its' his.
 
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Bringing this over here, since there is some speculation they may have been hitchhiking east on I-10.

I don't know if this is relevant, but decided to post here. I just got a eerie "vibe", that's all.

Around this time, a young hitchhiking couple was murdered by a serial killer in San Bernardino County, CA. Remains were discovered in Nov 1980. There was even a relinquished infant involved. (Although the circumstances were much different and there was no cult involved) Additionally, one of the victims was from Florida.

Howard Neal has connections to TX, CA, and MS. (He was in CA in Nov 1980, TX Panhandle early Jan 1981, and MS after Jan 24th, 1981...He apparently got around). In Mississippi, sometime between Jan 24th and Feb 6th, 1981, he murdered two family members and dumped their bodies. In Mar 1981, he was located in Stockton, CA. Anyway, this guy got around!



 
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