Identified! TX - Houston, WhtFem 18-25, UP701 & WhtMale 20-30, UP703, in woods, Jan'81 - Dean and Tina Clouse

[Betty P]

Houston LE and the Texas AG's office recently conducted another search at the empty lot where Dean & Tina's bodies were found. The property is slated for commercial development, so they wanted to make sure they checked the area thoroughly to see if there was any remaining evidence.

JMO, it sounds like they're building a case.

Investigators search for clues in case of murdered parents of 'Baby Holly'

Police are continuing to search for clues in the case of the murdered parents of the child known as "Baby Holly."

abcnews.go.com

The Texas Attorney general's office is asking anyone with information pertaining to this case to please contact its Cold Case and Missing Persons Unit at coldcaseunit@oag.texas.gov or at 512-936-0742.

 

[Keishi]

Houston LE and the Texas AG's office recently conducted another search at the empty lot where Dean & Tina's bodies were found. The property is slated for commercial development, so they wanted to make sure they checked the area thoroughly to see if there was any remaining evidence.

JMO, it sounds like they're building a case.

Investigators search for clues in case of murdered parents of 'Baby Holly'

Police are continuing to search for clues in the case of the murdered parents of the child known as "Baby Holly."

abcnews.go.com

I noticed the dump site had been discovered between the Clouses murders and Michelle Garvey's. Given Michelle came from Connecticut, I wondered if the person who dumped her could have been from out of town and unaware law enforcement had discovered the site. I would like to know more about the associates that the Clouse family met and spoke with. Are their identities known to law enforcement?

 

[Betty P]

I noticed the dump site had been discovered between the Clouses murders and Michelle Garvey's. Given Michelle came from Connecticut, I wondered if the person who dumped her could have been from out of town and unaware law enforcement had discovered the site. I would like to know more about the associates that the Clouse family met and spoke with. Are their identities known to law enforcement?

I don’t know. If LE has more information, they’ve not made it public.

The Clouses had only been in Lewisville, TX a couple of months when they were murdered. The first month they lived with Dean’s uncle. Lewisville is located about 270 miles from Houston, where their bodies were found.

There’s a number to call at the Texas Attorney General’s office If you have a tip.

 

[Friday Fan]

According to Wikipedia, Dean and Tina had different causes of death

Dean was bound and beaten to death and Tina was strangled.

Murders of Dean and Tina Clouse - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Who Killed Texas Couple Dean and Tina Clouse—and Where Is Their Baby?

A group of sleuths using "genetic genealogy" has broken open a 40-year-old cold case.

www.texasobserver.org

The above article says the couple sent home a Christmas letter in December 1980. It was the letter that contained the photo of little Holly standing in her "walker".

Police believe Dean died defending his wife and child. JMO, Tina was probably strangled because she refused to give up her child. (JMO)

Tina was found wearing green athletic shorts. JMO, it sounds like she was indoors when she was killed. Even in north Texas, in December or January, the weather is cold. She had no coat or sweater.

Dean was a skilled cabinet maker, so he would have no problem finding a job in the DFW area in 1980. Population was booming, during a big migration of companies and people moving to the "sun belt" states where weather was warmer and business taxes lower.

Lots of questions! Right? Maybe there are some answers, but "we the public" aren't going to know for awhile.

 

[Betty P]

Lots of questions! Right? Maybe there are some answers, but "we the public" aren't going to know for awhile.

JMO, the evidence only points to the cult members - they had the baby AND the couple's car.

They reported nothing to LE about the missing couple, despite having possession of their child and possessions.

They hid or gave away both of those key pieces of evidence.

JMO, they only returned the car for fear the police would link them to the stolen car and arrest them.

It was up to LE to take some action, especially when the "missing" car was returned to Dean's family. Even now, they don't seem to be willing to do anything.

 

[FamilyHistoryDetectives]

I've been away from the WS site for a while and was so glad to see that you are all helping to keep Dean and Tina's story alive. It gives their families strength to know that their loved ones have not been forgotten. I pass on messages about Dean and Tina to them from the internet regularly!

In the meantime, we are coming up this month on extractions for our fourth case underwritten by their memorial fund at Genealogy For Justice™. After resolving the case of Virginia Higgins Ray on Mother's Day in May, we shipped three Volusia County, Florida cases to the lab to join the ongoing efforts to sequence Fort Motte Jane Doe.

It's not the same as closure for their murder, but in the meantime helping other families gives purpose to their pain.

May the perpetrators of their deaths be held accountable soon. More miraculous things have happened!

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Holly Marie spoke with “ABC 20/20” in an exclusive interview with David Muir.
ABC News

Holly Miller is opening up for the first time with "20/20" co-anchor David Muir in an exclusive interview airing Friday, Nov. 3 at 9 p.m. ET and streaming on Hulu the next day. ​

"I was in shock," Miller told ABC News.

"I couldn't believe it. Are you serious?" she recalled thinking at the time. "I had a family out there that wanted to get to know me and had been searching for me all this time. I didn't know what I was missing."

Holly Marie was able to meet members of her biological family in 2022.

'Baby Holly' speaks out for the 1st time after being missing for over 40 years

David Muir speaks exclusively with Holly Miller, who went missing as a baby after her parents were found dead in a Texas forest in 1981.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Friday Fan]

Holly Marie spoke with “ABC 20/20” in an exclusive interview with David Muir.
ABC News

Holly Miller is opening up for the first time with "20/20" co-anchor David Muir in an exclusive interview airing Friday, Nov. 3 at 9 p.m. ET and streaming on Hulu the next day. ​

"I was in shock," Miller told ABC News.

"I couldn't believe it. Are you serious?" she recalled thinking at the time. "I had a family out there that wanted to get to know me and had been searching for me all this time. I didn't know what I was missing."

Holly Marie was able to meet members of her biological family in 2022.

'Baby Holly' speaks out for the 1st time after being missing for over 40 years

David Muir speaks exclusively with Holly Miller, who went missing as a baby after her parents were found dead in a Texas forest in 1981.

abcnews.go.com

Fascinating. Glad her adopted father is speaking out. He looks like he may have been fairly young himself at the time Holly showed up at his church.

 

[mjm076]

Fascinating. Glad her adopted father is speaking out. He looks like he may have been fairly young himself at the time Holly showed up at his church.

I am very excited to watch this interview tonight!

Also, in case it hasn’t been mentioned yet, Holly has a book coming out November 7th titled Finding Baby Holly: Lost to a Cult, Surviving my Parent’s Murders, and Saved by Prayer: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1546006443/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1699022021&sr=8-1

Does anyone know when an age-progression of Holly was first released by NCMEC?

I can’t imagine the hope that Holly’s story gives to parents of missing infants who have been profiled by NCMEC!

 

[Betty P]

Holly Marie spoke with “ABC 20/20” in an exclusive interview with David Muir.
ABC News

Holly Miller is opening up for the first time with "20/20" co-anchor David Muir in an exclusive interview airing Friday, Nov. 3 at 9 p.m. ET and streaming on Hulu the next day. ​

"I was in shock," Miller told ABC News.

"I couldn't believe it. Are you serious?" she recalled thinking at the time. "I had a family out there that wanted to get to know me and had been searching for me all this time. I didn't know what I was missing."

Holly Marie was able to meet members of her biological family in 2022.

'Baby Holly' speaks out for the 1st time after being missing for over 40 years

David Muir speaks exclusively with Holly Miller, who went missing as a baby after her parents were found dead in a Texas forest in 1981.

abcnews.go.com

Holly's adoptive father, Phillip McGoldrick, told detectives that two barefoot women in white robes knocked on the door of his church in Yuma in late 1980, looking for someone to take in baby Holly. He said one of the women presented herself as Holly's mother. The pair handed McGoldrick the child's birth certificate as well as a note purportedly written by Holly's father, Dean, revoking custody of the girl.

Interesting. One of the cult members told the adoptive father that they were the mother of the child. They also had a "note" allegedly from Dean, stating she could be put up for adoption. I doubt Dean actually signed that, but the adoptive father had no way of knowing if any of this was true. He had to take them at their word, especially since they had a birth certificate.

Truly horrible cult members. Killed an innocent young couple for their money and car and gave their baby away to strangers. Then they lied to family members when they returned the young parents' car. Shameful.

"Who are these women in white?" Miller writes in her new memoir, "Finding Baby Holly: Lost to a Cult, Surviving My Parents' Murders, and Saved by Prayer," which is set to be released Nov. 7.

"Is there some link between these groups and the disappearance and murder of my parents? Are they villains in my story—or heroes?" writes Miller.

JMO, the cult members who gave away Baby Holly lied about one being the baby's mother, so they knew Dean and Tina were dead. Dean and Tina were murdered at the same time, their bound bodies dumped together. That much of the timeline is pretty clear.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Sometimes it is just so "good" to go back and review the whole case.... this one certainly is worth it.....

Now, with all the more advanced forensic tools, it would be so great if the murderers could be found... AND to see what connections can be made to early-on posters connected to potential suspects... ( @Walkingproof )

 

[Friday Fan]

Enjoy! I can't watch it.

My antenna doesn't get the local ABC affiliate. I may be able to catch it in their website later on.

 

[mjm076]

I’m watching as well! Such an incredible story!

 

[Friday Fan]

Ah: Holly has an official FB Page. Holly Marie, Author

Holly Marie, author

Holly Marie, author. 130 likes · 87 talking about this. Author of Finding Baby Holly, former missing child of Dean & Tina Linn Clouse

www.facebook.com

I think she got lucky with her adoptive father. He seems like a kind man.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I got caught up on this case just today, and did watch the 20/20 show last night...

Am just curious as to how others felt regarding accuracy etc....
I guess I had been feeling that the religious ones were not involved with the actual murder...

 

[Friday Fan]

I got caught up on this case just today, and did watch the 20/20 show last night...

Am just curious as to how others felt regarding accuracy etc....
I guess I had been feeling that the religious ones were not involved with the actual murder...

I don't have access to the 20/20 episode yet, but just by watching the preview, the location of Tina and Dean, indicates someone who was familiar with the area was involved. They were in a thicket. I think for awhile, it was thought they may have been victims of the "Houston killing fields" or local drug trade.

The cult leader that the Clouses were involved with, had an extensive record. However, I doubt that he himself was involved with this site in Houston. He was in CA, AZ etc.

Someone who knew the area was involved in this. MOO MOO

 

[Betty P]

I don't have access to the 20/20 episode yet, but just by watching the preview, the location of Tina and Dean, indicates someone who was familiar with the area was involved. They were in a thicket. I think for awhile, it was thought they may have been victims of the "Houston killing fields" or local drug trade.

The cult leader that the Clouses were involved with, had an extensive record. However, I doubt that he himself was involved with this site in Houston. He was in CA, AZ etc.

Someone who knew the area was involved in this. MOO MOO

How did the Clouses end up there, so far from where they had been living? If they had been part of this "church" why would they have given up their child and ALSO left the church? They were good parents who loved their child, by all accounts. How did the church end up with their child? Their car?

There were many "members" of the "church" who came from different towns and cities. They weren't a church as much as they were a nomadic cult that traveled extensively around the US, scamming people for money, doing drugs, drinking, controlling their members lives and abusing them, etc.

The stories told by some of the cult members don't match the actual facts known by family members, according to a reporter who did an extended podcast on the story for the Houston Chronicle:

Texas' Baby Holly murder mystery to get 9-episode true crime podcast

Texas murder mystery of Dean and Tina Clouse and the discovery of Baby Holly will be the subject of a new long-form, true crime podcast.

www.houstonchronicle.com

She said Sister Susan's story about the return of Dean's car to his family didn't match what Dean's family told her.

Months later, as she was wrapping up production, she got the call from Sister Susan. They spent more than an hour negotiating, and soon, Corbin was on a plane to interview her. The next day, they met in a hotel room, where they spoke for several hours.


Sister Susan answered all of Corbin's questions, but her version "differed dramatically" from Casasanta's recollection of the evening her son's car was returned to her.


"It was very difficult to reconcile those differences," Corbin said. "I have no idea if she was telling the truth. She seemed very convincing, and you want to take someone at their word, but it's up to the prosecutor (or other investigators) to figure that one out."

 

[Friday Fan]

How did the Clouses end up there, so far from where they had been living? If they had been part of this "church" why would they have given up their child and ALSO left the church? They were good parents who loved their child, by all accounts. How did the church end up with their child? Their car?

There were many "members" of the "church" who came from different towns and cities. They weren't a church as much as they were a nomadic cult that traveled extensively around the US, scamming people for money, doing drugs, drinking, controlling their members lives and abusing them, etc.

The stories told by some of the cult members don't match the actual facts known by family members, according to a reporter who did an extended podcast on the story for the Houston Chronicle:

Texas' Baby Holly murder mystery to get 9-episode true crime podcast

Texas murder mystery of Dean and Tina Clouse and the discovery of Baby Holly will be the subject of a new long-form, true crime podcast.

www.houstonchronicle.com

She said Sister Susan's story about the return of Dean's car to his family didn't match what Dean's family told her.

Could have been a member 9f the cult that knew the area well.

 

[Betty P]

Could have been a member 9f the cult that knew the area well.

Yes. The timeline is too tight between
1)their living in Texas, communicating with family and not being in a cult
2) their estimated time of death
3) the time the baby was given away in AZ

JMO, the baby was given away AFTER Dean & Tina's murder. The cult then took David's car, got out of Texas and gave away the baby in AZ.

None of the photos and letters sent just before they were killed show them wearing robes or mentioning anything about being in a cult. They weren't wearing robes when they were killed.

The sequence was

• Oct 8, 1980 Tina last sent photos and a letter home to family
• Estimate late October 1980 - Dean & Tina encountered the cult and, for some reason, were killed
• Bodies were dumped in Houston
• Early November 1980 - Cult traveled to AZ and gave away the baby
• Cult traveled on to southern CA
• January 1981 - Bodies of Dean & Tina were discovered in Houston. They were bound, Tina was strangled, Dean was beaten to death
• Later in 1981 - Cult members returned Dean's car to his family in FL, tried to extort money from them

I don't believe anything any of the cult members say. Anyone who encountered cults back then tried to avoid them. They were polished grifters, adept at telling stories and trying to persuade people to give them money or join their group. Sister Susan was in the cult for many years and is linked to their disapperance, or at least to giving away their car. Of course she's going to lie about all that. She can't lie about the car because Dean's family saw and met her when they received the car.

Dean's family said he had briefly joined a cult years before when still living at home in FL. His family said there was a group of cultists who wore white robes and walked barefoot who used to hang around the New Smyrna/Daytona Beach area. JMO, Dean met some of them then and perhaps had a disagreement with some members, probably about money. Money was very important to these cults, its how they supported themselves. They either took money and possessions from new cult members, extorted money from their families, begged for public donations or forced cult members to work and turn all their earnings over to the cult leaders. It's rumored this cult were also involved in dealing drugs.

All JMO