TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #6

Cubby

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Please continue here

JMoseley.jpg
MTrlica.jpg
LWilson.jpg

Julie Ann Moseley - left
Mary Rachel Trlica - center
Lisa Renee Wilson - right

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Tricia

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Please join me in welcoming Kettlecorn and love trumps all as our latest verified posters. In this case they are listed each as "verified family insider"
This means they do not have to provide links to back up what they post. You may ask them questions put you cannot argue. You can agree to disagree with them. If you don't believe them then you must scroll by. Again, you cannot be snarky, rude or argue with any verified member.

I will be starting a new thread soon.
Thank you,
Tricia
 

Sillybilly

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Hey everyone,

Kellijeanarnold has now been verified as a family member of Mary Rachel (Arnold) Trlica.

As a VI, Kellijeanarnold can provide members with their inside knowledge of this case and they are not required to provide links to support the information they state as fact. In all other respects, a VI must follow Websleuths TOS.

As always, please be respectful of our VI. You may ask questions but do not pressure them for answers. If you disagree with something a VI states, do not argue with them or challenge them, just move on in the discussion.

Thanks to Kellijeanarnold and everyone for being here to discuss this case.

Sillybilly
 

MadMcGoo

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**I apologize in advance for the long post, I may should have split it up.**

Wow. I’ve spent the last several days reading every post in every thread related to this case. I had no idea it was so...complex. Bless the Mods, that’s for sure. I’m frankly surprised any of the threads are still open for discussion with the way things have gotten so carried away several times. (JMHO)

I have several thoughts and questions and like I said I’ve read every post since the beginning, but it’s possible I missed or forgot something. I’ll try not to be repetitive. Some things were hard to read through too due to so many posts having to be removed/redacted/edited. It made it hard to follow the discussion at times. It’s especially difficult when conversations or topics are being carried over here midway from another forum. I hadn’t planned on reading anything from the FB group, but I almost have to in order to get all the pieces in one place. :confused: I also plan to listen to the Gone Cold podcast series, as that seems to be the most universally approved version of events.

1) How many sets of car keys were there for the Oldsmobile, and what was the norm for that time period?

2) I remember earlier in the threads, it was said that Renee bought the gift for TT’s son. That struck me as a little odd. Anyone else? How did one of Rachel’s friends become close enough to her step son that she’d be buying him a Christmas gift? This isn’t meant to be a loaded question or accusatory, I’ve legitimately been curious about that.

3) The fact that TT claims to have not known there was a second automotive shop location, leads me to one question. When did Rachel and TT meet? How long had they known each other? Even more, he had a relation with Debra prior to that, so you think that’d be something he was privy to. Again, not suggesting anything, just questions I’ve not seen asked or answered. ETA: I see there’s still debate about the number of shops.

4) In the original MP reports posted upthread, one states that the Oldsmobile was found in the lot at 10pm on the 23rd and the other states 8:30pm. So it was found long before the letter was received. Which makes me think it was actually written and mailed before the car was found, or mailed/delivered the next morning by someone who didn’t know the car had been found. Yet again, makes the letter all that more strange. It also says to me that whoever wrote it knew the girls would be at that mall that day or knew that others who’d come looking for them knew. Otherwise, it’d just SS Mall, not a specific store’s “upper lot”.

5) Those MP reports also verify that Renee’s old pants (the ones she was wearing before the layaway pickup) were found inside the vehicle.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/a...04686237859_7780407847401029632_o-jpg.230786/
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/a...04659571195_3655195989859368960_o-jpg.230787/

6) Was in unusual for $150 in savings bonds to be kept in the car’s glove compartment? I’ve seen some say the bonds where still there when the car was retrieved and one article that states TT was asked by a psychic if $150 meant anything to him, and he responded with yes, those bonds were missing from the car. (I can’t find the link, but it’s in one of these threads)

7) Can anyone help me verify something. There has been talk of 2 sets of skeletal remains found shortly after the girls disappeared. In 1976, 3 skeletons were found in Alvord. In 1981, 2 skeletons were found in Alvin and later identified as Georgia and Brooks. This is not accurate according to records. There’s a mix up somewhere. Basically, I can’t find anything verifying the Alvord connection, except for a link to Wikipedia. I don’t consider that verification because even that info is not sourced. By all other accounts, there were only remains found in 1976 and identified (2/3) in 1981. I think CCJD posted several articles about midway through this thread, and was on the right track.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/st_04_04_1981-jpg.166689/

These are the three skeletons found in 1976, south of Houston, near Alvin. They were initially thought to be those of three young girls, then determined to be those of one young male and two young females. Upon two of their subsequent identifications (Georgia and Brooks), they once again believe the remains to be all female. Largely in part because they based one being male on the width of his hips, which turned out to be one of the identified girls. (That leads to 99 other questions, but I won’t steer too far off topic.)

SO, does that mean there is still one unidentified person from that location, or did they determine there were only two all along? The wording is quite confusing. I think the locations and number of skeletons found warrant another look if there’s a chance they could be the missing trio. And if a mistake such as gender misidentification could be made, I have to wonder what other things they could have gotten wrong.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/alvin-remains-1-jpg.166845/
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/alvin-remains-2-jpg.166846/

https://newspaperarchive.com/alvin-sun-apr-07-1981-p-1/
A major portion of a yellow garment found in the search lead investigarors to further believe the second girl was Bracewell. The original search was suspended when authorities were unable to make positive identification on the bones found in 1976. Forensic odontologist Dr. Paul Stimson, who is an expert in dental identification according to Wingo, assisted in identifying the teeth found in an area southeast of Alvin. The report was modified about a year ago. when the medical examiner's office said the remains might in fact belong to three females. (This was written after the two other missing girls were already identified)

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/e1b955e4-e723-4324-b51a-e654d010dd56-jpeg.154690/
I think this article ^^ that from December 1979 was just wrong in their math stating the skeletons were found a year and half prior. It’s referring to the same skeletons found in April 1976, 3 and a half years prior. The similarities are too exact for it to be a coincidence and not just a typo. I guess my main point is that the two girls who were identified were part of the 3 skeletons found near Alvin in 1976, just not identified until around 1981. These were the remains everyone has been thinking could be the FWMT. Meaning one, in theory, should be left unidentified. A young female.

There was also a search conducted near Alvin, at the request of Swaim and a guy from Hawaii who had a tip the girls were there, near an oil tank IIRC, but all that was found there were scattered bones determined to be animals, not human. I also can’t find the link to this article, but it is in one of the threads, at least once.

**I appreciate anyone who is willing to provide factual answers to my questions, and respect if none of them are addressed. I am in no way connected to this case or anyone involved. I found it to difficult to even form an opinion or theory as to what happened to the girls other than that they vanished without a single known trace. I simply figured a new set of unbiased eyes might help. Lord knows the girls need help.**

Also, what exactly does it mean when a member’s name is now “Deleted Member”? Does that mean they left or were made to leave for a WS violation or something of the sort? I don’t need specifics, just a general answer. TIA!
 

MadMcGoo

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Back then, a car came with two sets of keys. But those old keys were inexpensive and easy to duplicate. So many stores had machines to make keys.
Thank you for that insight!

Then I guess the question remains (probably for an insider who may know), how many sets were there, before the disappearances, for that particular Oldsmobile?
 

MadMcGoo

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Another thing about the letter; why say “I know I’m going to catch it...”? Shouldn’t it say “I (or we) know we are going to catch it...”?

We just had to get away”. From what? This sentence doesn’t make sense when it comes to any theory. Serial killer, family member, random stranger. Most likely, Rachel herself if there was truly something all 3 girls felt they needed to get away from. Only not bad enough that they’d be returning in a week. I don’t know the answer to that.

:mad: I’m beating the same dead horse. It’s frustrating. I feel terrible for these girls, and anyone surrounding them who has suffered.
 

FW_Froggy

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Another thing about the letter; why say “I know I’m going to catch it...”? Shouldn’t it say “I (or we) know we are going to catch it...”?

We just had to get away”. From what? This sentence doesn’t make sense when it comes to any theory. Serial killer, family member, random stranger. Most likely, Rachel herself if there was truly something all 3 girls felt they needed to get away from. Only not bad enough that they’d be returning in a week. I don’t know the answer to that.

:mad: I’m beating the same dead horse. It’s frustrating. I feel terrible for these girls, and anyone surrounding them who has suffered.
Yes you can go down a thousand different rabbit holes and none of them have an End.
 

MadMcGoo

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SBM For correction

There was also a search conducted near Alvin, at the request of Swaim and a guy from Hawaii who had a tip the girls were there, near an oil tank IIRC, but all that was found there were scattered bones determined to be animals, not human. I also can’t find the link to this article, but it is in one of the threads, at least once.
upload_2021-1-26_20-24-9.png

I need to correct myself. This search was not done in Alvin, it was in Eastland County, near a place known as the Amity Community. I felt that error on my part needed to be addressed.
 

MadMcGoo

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upload_2021-1-27_1-13-27.png

Maybe this answers one of my questions.

Re: the 3 sets of remains
Bones were found in the same area (near Alvin) at two separate times, during two separate searches. Some in April 1976 and some in March 1981. However, they apparently all belonged to the same individuals. Three as far anyone could tell. Two were identified in April 1981. So, I guess unless they really messed up in those identifications (and are willing to admit that and have things reevaluated), these can’t be the missing trio.
 

MadMcGoo

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upload_2021-1-27_1-31-13.png
This somewhat answers another. A description of what was in the Oldsmobile when it was found and some things that were missing:

Found: An old and new pair of jeans

Missing from the glove compartment: Three $50 bonds purchased by him and his first wife, and a copy of a will from his parents.

However, he wasn’t sure when the items were taken or if he’d misplaced them himself. :confused:
 

MadMcGoo

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upload_2021-1-27_1-40-22.png
And another one.

The wording of this article makes it seem like Renee just wrapped Shawn’s gift for Rachel, didn’t purchase it. That makes more sense to me.
 

MadMcGoo

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So many copies of the letter. One clearly shows the letter folded with the crease going from side to side, while the others just have darker spots (could be from photocopying, because it’s on the envelope too) making the crease appear to run from top to bottom. After seeing these, I’m not convinced the letter didn’t physically fit inside the envelope, nor that it had never been inside it in the first place.

upload_2021-1-27_2-42-26.png
upload_2021-1-27_3-17-10.png
upload_2021-1-27_3-26-34.png

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/ltrenv_st_2017-jpg.128510/
 

Wilma_W

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View attachment 281381

Maybe this answers one of my questions.

Re: the 3 sets of remains
Bones were found in the same area (near Alvin) at two separate times, during two separate searches. Some in April 1976 and some in March 1981. However, they apparently all belonged to the same individuals. Three as far anyone could tell. Two were identified in April 1981. So, I guess unless they really messed up in those identifications (and are willing to admit that and have things reevaluated), these can’t be the missing trio.
You should listen to the Gone Cold podcast - it covers the 'Brazoria Bones' in detail. The upshot is that the early reports were all wrong and when they finally did a more thorough investigation, it was not the remains of 3 people and none of them were male - it was the remains of 2 people and they were identified as Georgia Geer and Brooks Bracewell. He also goes over the confusion in some news items between Alvin (which is in Brazoria County on the Gulf coast) and Alvord which is near Ft. Worth. I believe he says that no bones related to this case were ever found in or near Alvord - that appears to have been just a mistake in reporting.
 

MadMcGoo

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You should listen to the Gone Cold podcast - it covers the 'Brazoria Bones' in detail. The upshot is that the early reports were all wrong and when they finally did a more thorough investigation, it was not the remains of 3 people and none of them were male - it was the remains of 2 people and they were identified as Georgia Geer and Brooks Bracewell. He also goes over the confusion in some news items between Alvin (which is in Brazoria County on the Gulf coast) and Alvord which is near Ft. Worth. I believe he says that no bones related to this case were ever found in or near Alvord - that appears to have been just a mistake in reporting.
Thank you for responding!! This is basically the conclusion I had come to, I was just wanting to make sure nothing was missed. And I couldn’t figure out what happened to that third skeleton. I’m glad they sorted it out though.

I started the Gone Cold series...I didn’t realize how many episodes they did, so it may take me a bit, but I’ll get through them! Thanks again!
 

Richard

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Texas DPS Missing Persons Bulletin
A8602007.jpg

Date Picture Updated: 1/9/2002
Mary Rachel Trlica
AKA: Rachel Trlica, Mary Rachel Arnold
Case Number: A8602007
Height: 5' 6 "
Date of Birth: 11/15/1957
Eye Color: Blue
Race: White
Last Seen in: Fort Worth (Tarrant)
State Missing From: Texas

Case Type: Endangered - Foul Play Possible
Weight: 108 lbs.
Age Missing: 17
Hair Color: Blonde
Sex: Female
Last Seen on: 12/23/1974
Country Missing From: USA


Miscellaneous Notes: Mary has a chipped upper front tooth and a small scar on her chin. Mary and her companions, Lisa Renee Wilson (A8602009) and Julie Ann Moseley (A8804003), disappeared while shopping at the Seminary South Shopping Center. Rachel's vehicle was found in the parking lot of the shopping center locked with the keys gone. They have never made contact with their families.

LINK:
mpPoster
 

Richard

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Lisa Renee Wilson

lisa_renee_wilson_1.jpg
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lisa_renee_wilson_2.jpg

Lisa, circa 1974; Age-progression at age 53 (circa 2013)
  • Missing Since 12/23/1974
  • Missing From Fort Worth, Texas
  • Classification Non-Family Abduction
  • Sex Female
  • Race White
  • Date of Birth 08/29/1960 (60)
  • Age 14 years old
  • Height and Weight 5'2, 110 pounds
  • Clothing/Jewelry Description Blue/purple hip-hugger pants, a pale yellow/green t-shirt or white pullover sweatshirt with "Sweet Honesty" imprinted on the front in green lettering, red and white sneakers or oxford-type shoes, and a promise ring with a single stone.
  • Distinguishing Characteristics Caucasian female. Brown hair with reddish highlights, brown eyes. Lisa has a scar on her thigh. She is addressed by her middle name, Renee.
Details of Disappearance

Lisa joined her friend Mary Rachel Trlica for a day of Christmas shopping at the Seminary South Shopping Center (now known as the Fort Worth Town Center) on December 23, 1974. The two girls were joined by Julie Ann Moseley, a neighborhood child and friend of Lisa's family.

Julie lived across the street from Lisa's grandmother's house, where Lisa was spending the late morning hours of December 23. Lisa was dating Julie's older brother Terry at the time; in fact, he gave her a promise ring the morning before she vanished.

The girls asked Terry to accompany them shopping, but he decided to visit a friend instead and they allowed Julie to tag along.

It has been established that Lisa wanted to arrive home by 4:00 p.m., since she needed to prepare for a Christmas party that evening with Terry. The three girls departed before 12:00 p.m. and arrived at the Army/Navy Store to retrieve Christmas presents that were on layaway. They then headed to the Seminary South Shopping Center, parking the Trlicas' Oldsmobile on the upper parking level near Sears.

Witnesses informed authorities that they had seen the three girls inside the mall during the day. Authorities believe that they returned to the car at some point during the afternoon, but what happened to them afterwards remains a mystery.

The Oldsmobile was discovered locked in the lot with the presents still inside when the vehicle was located at approximately 6:00 p.m. that evening. There was no sign of the girls.

One witness claimed she observed the three girls being 'hustled' into a pickup truck by unidentified men the day they vanished. Another witness came forward in 1981 (seven years following their disappearances) and stated he saw an unidentified male forcing a girl into a van in the mall's lot. When the witness approached them, the man told him it was a "family dispute" and asked him to "stay out of it." Neither of these stories has been verified by authorities.

Police initially assumed that the girls had run away of their own volition. Their families, however, insisted otherwise.

A letter arrived at the Trlicas' residence on the morning of December 24, 1974 -- the day after the girls were last seen. It was addressed to Thomas, Rachel's husband, and the name "Rachel" was written in the upper left corner of the envelope.

The letter stated that the girls had gone to Houston, Texas and would return in about a week. It also gave directions to the Trlicas' car in the mall parking area. Authorities are still unsure of the letter writer's identity; handwriting tests have proved inconclusive.

Over the years, the families of the three missing girls have struggled to deal with claims that the girls' bodies were in different places throughout Texas. None of these claims have panned out.

The families hired Jon Swaim, a private investigator, in 1975 after frustrations with the police investigation. Swaim committed suicide in 1979 and his records were destroyed, but it is unclear if he uncovered any legitimate information concerning the case.

Rachel's brother Rusty Arnold located private investigator Dan James in 1999, a man who maintains he has never received any financial compensation for his work on the case.

James and Rusty believe witness reports that Rachel and Lisa were seen alive in the initial days following their 1974 disappearance at stores and a gas station. They now believe that both Lisa and Julie are deceased, but that Rachel is alive and being "kept" from visiting the Fort Worth area by person(s) unnamed.

James does claim that several "credible" witnesses reported seeing Rachel in the Fort Worth area during the Christmas holidays as recently as 1998, however. James and Rusty also believe that the unidentified person(s) are maintaining efforts to keep Rachel cloistered away. They refuse to detail their evidence (if any) supporting these claims.

It is worth noting that James began offering a $25,000 reward to any person whose information about the case leads to the arrest and conviction of the responsible party (or parties) in December 1999. James is also one of the sponsors of the Web site MissingTrio.com, a site that offers information and news updates on the missing girls' case.

In April 2001, KXAS NBC-5 in Texas reported that a witness came forward and told Fort Worth Police investigators that he saw the three girls inside a pickup truck with a young male security guard from Seminary South Shopping Center at approximately 11:30 p.m. on the evening of their disappearance.

The witness stated that the girls seemed relaxed and were in the vehicle "willingly." He said he contacted the authorities a few days following the girls' disappearance, but that investigators failed to follow through with his lead until April 2001.

Authorities told reporters that they located the security guard who was identified by the witness, but that the man denied the girls were in his truck on the evening of December 23, 1974. Detectives went on to state that they are actively looking at five suspects and also utilizing DNA testing in their investigation.

Police officials have said that they now believe the girls left the mall with an individual that they trusted and were harmed afterwards. Their cases remain unsolved.

Lisa's family continues to reside in her childhood home in the Fort Worth area. Her mother believes all three girls are deceased.
Investigating Agency
  • Fort Worth Police Department 817-877-8345
  • Tarrant County District Attorney's Office 817-496-9402
Source Information
 
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