TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #7

[Cubby]

Please continue here

Julie Ann Moseley - left
Mary Rachel Trlica - center
Lisa Renee Wilson - right

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[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

Kellijeanarnold has now been verified as a family member of Mary Rachel (Arnold) Trlica.

As a VI, Kellijeanarnold can provide members with their inside knowledge of this case and they are not required to provide links to support the information they state as fact. In all other respects, a VI must follow Websleuths TOS.

As always, please be respectful of our VI. You may ask questions but do not pressure them for answers. If you disagree with something a VI states, do not argue with them or challenge them, just move on in the discussion.

Thanks to Kellijeanarnold and everyone for being here to discuss this case.

Sillybilly

 

[Hearttriobroken]

You may not need any expert at all. Just data... or nothing.

The only way for that letter to arrive in the morning on 24th would be for it to:
1. Be put inside the postal box in late hours of previous day or very early in the morning of 24th, before the box was emptied in the morning,
2. Be collected in the early morning hours of 24th, stamped, sorted through...
3. And given to the local postman doing his first route among with other mail prepared for him on that day.

So was the mail from the SS kiosk forwared straight to the post office that employed postmans who were delivering on Minot St. in December '74 or not?
Cause if yes, it'd be completely possible. Otherwise highely unlikely.

But are you keeping in mind that the timeline with envelope varies?
Could be delivered right away, in the matter of drive to and back from T's house.
Could be delivered in the matter of hours, preceeded with some searching, but still on the 24th.
Could be delivered by TT around noon on the 26th with excuse that he was looking for it and unable to locate it earlier.

I had many uncles that were postal deliverers during this time period. I haven’t questioned the timing just the legitimacy of the letter itself. In the 60s and 70s, you didn’t have to write the city if it was being delivered in the same city. You’d just write:‘city’ and the zip on the last line. Also if a postal deliverer, picked up a letter on his route and the receiving address was also on his route. he could manually stamp it and deliver it on the the same day. The envelope shows that it was postmarked in the am of 12/24.

 

[FW_Froggy]

So, it's confirmed she was there? Also, who was babysitting the little one? When Rachel had left to pick up Renee, DA was in bed. Was TT actually there, watching his kid, when Mama came to get him?
I'd understood TT and Rachel had planned to have him for Christmas-- that's part of the "narrative". Was that not so, or did plans suddenly get changed?

That's one of the mysteries of that day. Where was that LiL Jumpin Bean Shawn that day. Some say DA was watching him. Some say he was at the shop with TT. Some say he was picked up at Minot around 12 noon. Many say he was at the Bowling Alley with TT at 6:30 pm. The lady at the Bowling Alley said she watched him when TT left at around 8;30pm. Who was with TT when he picked up the LiL Jumpin Bean late that night. The more you know about this case the more you don't know.

 

[Brightchaser47]

That's one of the mysteries of that day. Where was that LiL Jumpin Bean Shawn that day. Some say DA was watching him. Some say he was at the shop with TT. Some say he was picked up at Minot around 12 noon. Many say he was at the Bowling Alley with TT at 6:30 pm. The lady at the Bowling Alley said she watched him when TT left at around 8;30pm. Who was with TT when he picked up the LiL Jumpin Bean late that night. The more you know about this case the more you don't know.

This kid's got more alibis than CA! At this point, I don't believe TT went to work that day, and if his son was picked up around noon by Mama, it's unlikely he was at the bowling alley, that evening. I don't see his mom picking him up at noon, just to drop him off a few hours later,--unless something urgent came up, on her end.

 

[beubeubeu]

2 yo kid at the workshop? That doesn't sound like it could be even close to a good idea. And with so many (at least two) changes of care for him some calls should be made (so possibility to back up at least some people's whereabouts).

Was Renee's grandma ever interviewed? It'd make more sense for her to get a gift for a boy she occasionally met before - if she didn't knew Shawna or Thomas, then while Rachel had him with her. Was she? Or it was too hard for those people to know anything about anything what happened at any time at all, not just on the 23rd and 24th.

 

[Brightchaser47]

2 yo kid at the workshop? That doesn't sound like it could be even close to a good idea. And with so many (at least two) changes of care for him some calls should be made (so possibility to back up at least some people's whereabouts).

Was Renee's grandma ever interviewed? It'd make more sense for her to get a gift for a boy she occasionally met before - if she didn't knew Shawna or Thomas, then while Rachel had him with her. Was she? Or it was too hard for those people to know anything about anything what happened at any time at all, not just on the 23rd and 24th.

Regarding taking the toddler to the shop, I agree- that would've been a very bad idea. That child would've been into  everything, and Dad wouldn't have gotten any work done-- unless they had a playpen built like Ft. Knox...
Having said that, I think that story (TT taking ST to work) is a "misdirect" or born out of confusion.
As for Renee's grandmother buying or giving a Christmas gift for ST, I can see that happening. Some people have generous personalities toward babies and children, and knowing Rachel and Renee are good friends, and that ST is between two homes, she may well have wanted to make his Christmas a little merrier.

 

[Brightchaser47]

This kid's got more alibis than CA! At this point, I don't believe TT went to work that day, and if his son was picked up around noon by Mama, it's unlikely he was at the bowling alley, that evening. I don't see his mom picking him up at noon, just to drop him off a few hours later,--unless something urgent came up, on her end.

Or something urgent came up at  his end, and he needed the toddler out of the house, for a bit...

 

[T rex]

You may not need any expert at all. Just data... or nothing.

The only way for that letter to arrive in the morning on 24th would be for it to:
1. Be put inside the postal box in late hours of previous day or very early in the morning of 24th, before the box was emptied in the morning,
2. Be collected in the early morning hours of 24th, stamped, sorted through...
3. And given to the local postman doing his first route among with other mail prepared for him on that day.

So was the mail from the SS kiosk forwared straight to the post office that employed postmans who were delivering on Minot St. in December '74 or not?
Cause if yes, it'd be completely possible. Otherwise highely unlikely.

But are you keeping in mind that the timeline with envelope varies?
Could be delivered right away, in the matter of drive to and back from T's house.
Could be delivered in the matter of hours, preceeded with some searching, but still on the 24th.
Could be delivered by TT around noon on the 26th with excuse that he was looking for it and unable to locate it earlier.

I'd still like to hear from an old retired postmaster or something. Someone that remembers more about that time and could say more on their handback policies. It's their job to know this stuff.
The question I ask regarding all this is, is it just that easy? I'm looking at the convenience factor. The easier it is to do the easier it is for me to believe someone would do it.

But are you keeping in mind that the timeline with envelope varies?
Could be delivered right away, in the matter of drive to and back from T's house.
Could be delivered in the matter of hours, preceeded with some searching, but still on the 24th.
Could be delivered by TT around noon on the 26th with excuse that he was looking for it and unable to locate it earlier.

It would be good to know the exact timeline for this. It has been the source of much discussion.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Then again TT's ex wife didn't go through the whole house she just stayed in one room while Rachel got the LiL Fella's stuff ready. TT's house was set up where the driveway went around the house so she wouldn't of been able to see cars in the back either.

I'm having difficulty picturing that driveway, as you've described it. Do you mean it's to the  side of the house?

 

[Ozoner]

I'd still like to hear from an old retired postmaster or something. Someone that remembers more about that time and could say more on their handback policies. It's their job to know this stuff.
The question I ask regarding all this is, is it just that easy? I'm looking at the convenience factor. The easier it is to do the easier it is for me to believe someone would do it.

Letter carriers today to not have any way to cancel letters; that is left to the clerks. Things could have been different in the 70s, but I doubt it. My understanding is that there was always a fairly strict differentiation of tasks between clerks and carriers.

Fort Worth probably had one main post office where the letter carriers worked. They would have had to "case" their own mail before delivering it, meaning that they would have been given all of the mail for their routes unsorted, and they would have had to sort it by the specific addresses. A typical carrier would have spent an hour or two each morning casing his or her mail before leaving the post office to deliver that mail. Post offices used to have a separate drop box for local mail, and that mail could have been delivered the same day if it was handed off to the carrier before the carrier left for his or her route.

The problem with this letter is that it was supposedly canceled at the postal annex at the mall, right? If that's the case, then it would have been hard but not impossible for it to have made its way to the carrier that same day because the carrier would have been working out of a different building. There is a lot of mail during the Christmas season, though, so it would not surprise me if mail was transported from the annex to the main post office several times a day during that season. Maybe one load made it to the main post office early enough for the local mail to be passed out to the carriers. Actually, because of how much mail they would have had to case, the carriers probably all left for their routes later than usual, so that probably increases the odds that some mail from the annex would have found its way to them before they headed out.

 

[Brightchaser47]

There's a reason why I was looking for a way to bypass the mail when I came across this handback service. I just can't understand how the envelope arrived when it did. If it had been stamped on the 23rd and arrived at Minot on the 24th I would still say that was awful fast, but it was stamped on the same day it arrived. That's lightning fast.
Now I'm looking at it from this angle. This is desperation. A letter is desperately needed and it has to be now. It has to be on the 24th there's no way around it. It has to be done. The mail does not run on Christmas and you cannot wait. The other families will be putting pressure on LE and there's the media and there's the FBI. This cannot be thought of as an abduction. So a runaway letter is needed. Regardless of who wrote it or how many wrote it, you now have it but now you need an envelope. Desperation again. It has to be done and it has to be done now. This ones a little tougher because a letter doesn't have to have a date but the envelope does. So now what do you do? What are your options? Well it doesn't matter because it has to be done.
I know this is just "buying time" like we always discuss here. I just want everyone to think about the desperation that was involved in it and what that entails.

So, to summarize this post: an envelope was desperately needed on the 24th. An envelope comes on the 24th. The envelope is postmarked the 24th.

You make some good points; but, just for argument's sake, why can't it be "thought of as an abduction"? There are plenty of "sightings" that would point in that direction, without incriminating the author(s). Those sightings are still running people in circles....
(Sorry if I'm missing something here)

 

[loveplace]

You make some good points; but, just for argument's sake, why can't it be "thought of as an abduction"? There are plenty of "sightings" that would point in that direction, without incriminating the author(s). Those sightings are still running people in circles....
(Sorry if I'm missing something here)

Regardless of what was intentionally misleading or not the effect was that no one was ever arrested, so it worked. Confusion can be a good smoke screen too.

 

[T rex]

You make some good points; but, just for argument's sake, why can't it be "thought of as an abduction"? There are plenty of "sightings" that would point in that direction, without incriminating the author(s). Those sightings are still running people in circles....
(Sorry if I'm missing something here)

The reason is to buy time. You dont won't LE to investigate this as a kidnapping (at least not early on).
Also the FBI would have opened up their own independent investigation.
But as we now know at this point everyone was on the runaway train.

 

[Brightchaser47]

The reason is to buy time. You dont won't LE to investigate this as a kidnapping (at least not early on).
Also the FBI would have opened up their own independent investigation.
But as we now know at this point everyone was on the runaway train.

That makes sense.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Regardless of what was intentionally misleading or not the effect was that no one was ever arrested, so it worked. Confusion can be a good smoke screen too.

True...

 

[Pricklykitty]

The reason is to buy time. You dont won't LE to investigate this as a kidnapping (at least not early on).
Also the FBI would have opened up their own independent investigation.
But as we now know at this point everyone was on the runaway train.

Makes me wonder if, in the very beginning, certain people, or whoever wrote/ sent the letter, weren't certain that they had efficiently covered their tracks. By convincing police of the runaway theory they bought themselves quite a bit time to make sure those tracks were covered.

 

[T rex]

Makes me wonder if, in the very beginning, certain people, or whoever wrote/ sent the letter, weren't certain that they had efficiently covered their tracks. By convincing police of the runaway theory they bought themselves quite a bit time to make sure those tracks were covered.

I wish one of the other girls parents would have went to FWPD and pressed charges against Rachel for kidnapping. It would have just been a technicality but it would have set things in motion. It would have forced their hand, the locals and the Feds.

 

[loveplace]

I wish one of the other girls parents would have went to FWPD and pressed charges against Rachel for kidnapping. It would have just been a technicality but it would have set things in motion. It would have forced their hand, the locals and the Feds.

I would think this would be most effective coming from Julie's family just due to her age and the fact that there was no explicit permission given to take her anywhere but the brief trip to the mall.

 

[beubeubeu]

Makes me wonder if, in the very beginning, certain people, or whoever wrote/ sent the letter, weren't certain that they had efficiently covered their tracks. By convincing police of the runaway theory they bought themselves quite a bit time to make sure those tracks were covered.

That's what I wondered as well - what would be done, or could be expected to be done if letter wouldn't show up on the 24th?
It's still more than 12 hours since car was located and 9-10 after LE showed up there. They already decided to not fingerprint.
And they already decided to visit a house that none of the girls lived in.