TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #7

[Chypre]

Could of just been Let's go get some burgers and fries HOP IN

I picture this scenario as one way to explain the location of the locked car. The girls are traveling somewhere in the mall parking lot, they see some people they know traveling in another car. One follows the other to a lot with space to pull up beside each other. It's also easier on the return to drive right up and drop off. But they didn't return.

 

[tilomagnet]

At this point (correct me if I'm wrong), the two most likely  possibilities for what happened to the girls are
1. They were met, taken from the Mall by TT, killed/disposed of elsewhere.
2. They were met/abducted from the Mall by DeBardeleben or ( ? ), and killed/disposed of.

no 2 I would not call a likely possibility. There is no real connection to DB at all, except that his mother lived in FW, so he MAY have been in town in that period, but nothing concrete at all. Of course another psycho perp could be responsible, but the letter must be explained, so were back to square one

 

[beubeubeu]

TT claimed in that Brazillian podcast (IIRC), that Rachel took him to work on the 23rd. The only way I can place him at work that day, making/receiving that supposed "fateful phone call", etc, is if she did. Then I can picture him taking a tow truck or service truck from the shop to the Mall to intercept, meet her, abduct, etc.
However, for this theory to work
1. Rachel  does have to take him to work that morning.
2. TT has to be alone at the shop (everyone else has the day off), working/piddling, because   he wants to be alone, maybe to think (he recently had that alleged fight at the bowling alley, 1-2 nights prior--depending on the source).
3. He has to call home or receive a call, prompting him to leave the shop, go to the Mall.
4. Said truck has to be available at the shop for him to drive to the Mall.
Again, this is the only way I can place TT at work that day, for events to unfold, as many folks believe they did.
I'm still not sold on the "transmission fluid barrels" theory for the girls' demise, but that's another post...

.

Nobody ever confirmed that anyone actually spoke with those bloggers. And they claim to a) speak with DA here long after her last visit
b) be the only source in 50 years to get different story from TT
c) speak with other family members while same family members say those bloggers stole their private pictures from their private profiles
They have no credibility. Even less than random person sharing their theory.

 

[beubeubeu]

At this point (correct me if I'm wrong), the two most likely  possibilities for what happened to the girls are
1. They were met, taken from the Mall by TT, killed/disposed of elsewhere.
2. They were met/abducted from the Mall by DeBardeleben or ( ? ), and killed/disposed of.

DeBardeleben was ruled out I'm pretty sure, months later and earlier he was in FW but almost certainly not in December. But he wasn't the only one like that.

 

[Brightchaser47]

no 2 I would not call a likely possibility. There is no real connection to DB at all, except that his mother lived in FW, so he MAY have been in town in that period, but nothing concrete at all. Of course another psycho perp could be responsible, but the letter must be explained, so were back to square one

If we assume the letter was written (by TT) to get a car back, and calm families, it could've been done whether he is guilty or innocent of the girls' disappearance (IMO).

 

[Brightchaser47]

DeBardeleben was ruled out I'm pretty sure, months later and earlier he was in FW but almost certainly not in December. But he wasn't the only one like that.

I know there was discussion on earlier threads about him and some others. It would be  great if we could rule out the likes of him...

 

[Brightchaser47]

Nobody ever confirmed that anyone actually spoke with those bloggers. And they claim to a) speak with DA here long after her last visit
b) be the only source in 50 years to get different story from TT
c) speak with other family members while same family members say those bloggers stole their private pictures from their private profiles
They have no credibility. Even less than random person sharing their theory.

Yikes. Didn't know all that.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

I know there was discussion on earlier threads about him and some others. It would be  great if we could rule out the likes of him...

The 'Runaway' Letter pretty much rules him out IMO.

 

[Pricklykitty]

TT claimed in that Brazillian podcast (IIRC), that Rachel took him to work on the 23rd. The only way I can place him at work that day, making/receiving that supposed "fateful phone call", etc, is if she did. Then I can picture him taking a tow truck or service truck from the shop to the Mall to intercept, meet her, abduct, etc.
However, for this theory to work
1. Rachel  does have to take him to work that morning.
2. TT has to be alone at the shop (everyone else has the day off), working/piddling, because   he wants to be alone, maybe to think (he recently had that alleged fight at the bowling alley, 1-2 nights prior--depending on the source).
3. He has to call home or receive a call, prompting him to leave the shop, go to the Mall.
4. Said truck has to be available at the shop for him to drive to the Mall.
Again, this is the only way I can place TT at work that day, for events to unfold, as many folks believe they did.
I'm still not sold on the "transmission fluid barrels" theory for the girls' demise, but that's another post...

.

Bbm

I can pur TT at work a few ways
1, a lift by someone unknown to us, a friend, co worker etc - very unlikely as I think we would have heard about this by now.
2, DA dropped him off - possible if she was still awake from the night before but otherwise unlikely since she by her own accounts was either up late playing games at home or working late at a club
3, RT dropped him off before returning home to get ready to meet friends - possible but not one I'm sold on as although it would work when school was out, it wouldn't really be practical during school terms.
4, CA dropped him off as claimed - again possible but, even without cancer complications, its not really a sensible option to me for CA to be going out of his way to collect TT when bith his daughters with cars were living with TT.
5, FA dropped both him and CA off - possible, but same issues as number 4
6 TT drove himself to work in his own car. I am far from convinced that the olds mobile (OM)was the only vehicle they shared. The OM is always referred to as RT's car. In no newspaper accounts does it ever say she was driving her husbands car that day, which in the 1970's it likely would havebeen mentioned that way imo. TM recounts a day just after RT married where she called to see RW and show off HER new car - the OM. The keys TT took to SS are always referred to as 'the spare keys', not his set of keys but the spare set. TT had to get to and from work everyday, and although he claims it was usual for CA to drive him, it doesn't feel like it makes sense for that to be the case, and couldn't have been the case during periods where CA was in Dallas receiving treatment. Plus I feel like it would be normal for a husband to check with his wife if she would be home from shopping in time to take him to bowling if hers was the only transport they had.
So although I know this logic is far from conclusive, its all I have nearly 50 years on, so going off this I am as yet unconvinced that TT did not have another form of transport he could use, be that a car or truck belonging to the shop.

 

[Brightchaser47]

When JS was on the case, did he seem to draw attention to or away from anyone in particular?
Same goes for DJ. Did he seem to be  protecting or vilifying any particular person?

Bbm

I can pur TT at work a few ways
1, a lift by someone unknown to us, a friend, co worker etc - very unlikely as I think we would have heard about this by now.
2, DA dropped him off - possible if she was still awake from the night before but otherwise unlikely since she by her own accounts was either up late playing games at home or working late at a club
3, RT dropped him off before returning home to get ready to meet friends - possible but not one I'm sold on as although it would work when school was out, it wouldn't really be practical during school terms.
4, CA dropped him off as claimed - again possible but, even without cancer complications, its not really a sensible option to me for CA to be going out of his way to collect TT when bith his daughters with cars were living with TT.
5, FA dropped both him and CA off - possible, but same issues as number 4
6 TT drove himself to work in his own car. I am far from convinced that the olds mobile (OM)was the only vehicle they shared. The OM is always referred to as RT's car. In no newspaper accounts does it ever say she was driving her husbands car that day, which in the 1970's it likely would havebeen mentioned that way imo. TM recounts a day just after RT married where she called to see RW and show off HER new car - the OM. The keys TT took to SS are always referred to as 'the spare keys', not his set of keys but the spare set. TT had to get to and from work everyday, and although he claims it was usual for CA to drive him, it doesn't feel like it makes sense for that to be the case, and couldn't have been the case during periods where CA was in Dallas receiving treatment. Plus I feel like it would be normal for a husband to check with his wife if she would be home from shopping in time to take him to bowling if hers was the only transport they had.
So although I know this logic is far from conclusive, its all I have nearly 50 years on, so going off this I am as yet unconvinced that TT did not have another form of transport he could use, be that a car or truck belonging to the shop.

Some  very good points made. Also, some things I was unaware of, that shed new light on the subject of cars....I'm wondering if TT merely told Rachel she had the use of the Olds, or if he actually put it in her name. After all, it  wasn't the car of choice for a young man (as has been pointed out).

 

[FW_Froggy]

Bbm

I can pur TT at work a few ways
1, a lift by someone unknown to us, a friend, co worker etc - very unlikely as I think we would have heard about this by now.
2, DA dropped him off - possible if she was still awake from the night before but otherwise unlikely since she by her own accounts was either up late playing games at home or working late at a club
3, RT dropped him off before returning home to get ready to meet friends - possible but not one I'm sold on as although it would work when school was out, it wouldn't really be practical during school terms.
4, CA dropped him off as claimed - again possible but, even without cancer complications, its not really a sensible option to me for CA to be going out of his way to collect TT when bith his daughters with cars were living with TT.
5, FA dropped both him and CA off - possible, but same issues as number 4
6 TT drove himself to work in his own car. I am far from convinced that the olds mobile (OM)was the only vehicle they shared. The OM is always referred to as RT's car. In no newspaper accounts does it ever say she was driving her husbands car that day, which in the 1970's it likely would havebeen mentioned that way imo. TM recounts a day just after RT married where she called to see RW and show off HER new car - the OM. The keys TT took to SS are always referred to as 'the spare keys', not his set of keys but the spare set. TT had to get to and from work everyday, and although he claims it was usual for CA to drive him, it doesn't feel like it makes sense for that to be the case, and couldn't have been the case during periods where CA was in Dallas receiving treatment. Plus I feel like it would be normal for a husband to check with his wife if she would be home from shopping in time to take him to bowling if hers was the only transport they had.
So although I know this logic is far from conclusive, its all I have nearly 50 years on, so going off this I am as yet unconvinced that TT did not have another form of transport he could use, be that a car or truck belonging to the shop.

If I'm not mistaken TT was bowling on a mixed league so RT should a went bowling with him. Wonder if he was upset RT didn't show up and left him with his small son.

 

[Brightchaser47]

If I'm not mistaken TT was bowling on a mixed league so RT should a went bowling with him. Wonder if he was upset RT didn't show up and left him with his small son.

I thought Shawn wasn't there till 8:30 pm, when DA picked TT up.

 

[FW_Froggy]

I thought Shawn wasn't there till 8:30 pm, when DA picked TT up.

I thought DA said she didn't see Shawn that day.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I thought DA said she didn't see Shawn that day.

She said Shawn wasn't at the house; Rachel didn't have him. Assuming her alibi is accurate, that wouldn't necessarily be a lie. I don't know if she actually went into the bowling alley, when she picked up TT at 8:30. If she waited in the car, she wouldn't have seen him.

 

[FW_Froggy]

She said Shawn wasn't at the house; Rachel didn't have him. Assuming her alibi is accurate, that wouldn't necessarily be a lie. I don't know if she actually went into the bowling alley, when she picked up TT at 8:30. If she waited in the car, she wouldn't have seen him.

Who is her alibi?

 

[Brightchaser47]

Another thing to keep in mind is we can't be for sure where DA was. She really has no one to verify her alibi.

Who is her alibi?

Good point. The lack of an alibi for DA does not make her guilty, but it makes it difficult to exonerate her.

 

[Brightchaser47]

DA denies seeing TT on the 23rd, till 8:30 pm, when she picks him up from bowling. She supposedly last saw her sister around 10:00 am that morning. I know her MP report says 12:30, but I think 10:00 better matches the timeline given by those at Gordon (if I'm not mistaken). She claims Shawn was not at the house that day. She also claims to be taking phone calls from Renee's mom around 2-4 pm, looking for her daughter (that would be verifiable).
As I see it, if DA is telling the truth, then ST and TT aren't. If ST and TT are telling the truth, then  DA isn't. Then the two big questions are
1. Who's lying (because they can't all be right)?
2. And why?
. To quote another poster, "I just want the truth about what happened to the girls, no matter who it points to".

 

[Tyra1003]

Three days ago, I seen this case up on “new posts”. I was intrigued. 7 threads later I am caught up.
WOW! It was very exciting for a bit when there were VI posting. I do wish some would come back and participate.

 

[Brightchaser47]

One of the few things LE has said is that they were positive the girls were at the Mall. I won't say his name But an employee of G. C. Murphy said this. "The FBI retrieved the negatives from our 25 cent Photo Booth that the 3 girls had used that particular day that they were last seen there at the Mall." IMO this is why LE is so positive they were at the Mall. I think LE knows what time those pictures were taken and it would show what the girls were wearing. Remember LE knows a 100 times more than we do and they are not sharing. I've always wondered if there are pictures of other people in those photos along with the girls.

If there were any pictures of all three girls together (and even a fourth or fifth person), that might settle the question of whether they were wearing coats. There weren't any in the Olds. They were either wearing them when they "left with someone they trusted", or they were never wearing them.

 

[Chypre]

DA denies seeing TT on the 23rd, till 8:30 pm, when she picks him up from bowling. She supposedly last saw her sister around 10:00 am that morning. I know her MP report says 12:30, but I think 10:00 better matches the timeline given by those at Gordon (if I'm not mistaken). She claims Shawn was not at the house that day. She also claims to be taking phone calls from Renee's mom around 2-4 pm, looking for her daughter (that would be verifiable).

I wonder if everyone's old itemized phone records are in the police evidence room.