TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #2

[Sutton]

I apologize if I came off as condescending, that wasn't my intent.

By knowledge about mood disorders, I mean doctors, mental health researchers, and support staff -- people who have done years and years of research on (among other factors) the chemical and physical aspects of depression. If anyone can find me one professional who specializes in suicide who would characterize someone who dies this way as selfish, I'll stand corrected.

Someone with suicidal ideation (your example of someone who contemplates suicide but changes their mind because of loved ones) is usually much further away from the black, near psychotic depression that precedes an actual attempt. How much "will" you have is a matter not of morality, but of how deep you are in the depression.

Again, it's not my intent to lecture or come across as condescending, but I worked at a suicide outreach for years, and this issue is really sensitive to me. It really isn't a choice. She may have been a selfish person, but that's not a factor in her suicide.

Thank you for explaining why you feel so strongly about the issue. I appreciate your opinion and am not attempting to convince you that my opinion is more correct.
If a person commits suicide while in some type of psychosis, I agree they are not acting selfishly.
I believe fatally shooting yourself in front of the house where your young child is staying, on Christmas Eve, is selfish. I don't think LEK just said, "You know what? *advertiser censored** it. I'll show that whole family. How dare he choose them over our marriage?" She was a lost soul. IMO, suicide is a choice (excluding psychosis).
I will refrain from posting on this topic again because LEK's thread is about finding her true identity. I do look forward to your posts and will keep an open mind to learning something new.

 

[DJmultiplecats]

I see your point, Sutton. I'll try to keep an open mind too

Yes, we should probably stick to the question of identity. Regardless of why or how she killed herself, that really is the big mystery here.

 

[shadowdancer]

I said her suicide was selfish - but I meant specifically that she did it outside a house where her child was. She must have known she would be found and the immediate aftermath of that - hysterical husband, police everywhere, ambulance etc - would profoundly affect her little girl.

If she saw no other way out and had to kill herself, fair do's, but why do it somewhere where it will likely set her kid up with issues for life. I think that's pretty selfish.

Her mental state had probably deteriated to such an extent that she wasn't capable of that sort of logic and reasoning. I doubt very much that she meant to be selfish about it.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Her mental state had probably deteriated to such an extent that she wasn't capable of that sort of logic and reasoning. I doubt very much that she meant to be selfish about it.

So much so she didn't even realise it was Christmas the next morning?

Anyway, it's beside the point and we can all have our own opinions. Back to sussing out who she is...

 

[lgr]

Hello again,

I have been thinking about a couple of things as I have been reading the last few posts on this thread.

We are all here, on this awesome site, in this particular thread, because FLEK stole someone else's identity and did not leave behind enough information about herself and her actions to satisfy the government and/or her child's family. If she had not broken the law, and had not chosen to take her identity with her when she killed herself, she would (I hope) be alive right now and taking care of her child and getting on with her life, totally unknown to us. But, that didn't happen.

FLEK covered her tracks so well that the government can't figure out who she was. Velling took the case public, to get help identifying her from people like us: thoughtful, caring, and intelligent folks who work together to find the the truth.

We are part of this mystery. We have been invited to speculate and question and hopefully solve this mystery. If Velling finds out the truth about FLEK's past before we do, I'm certain he would let us know, because it is our business.

We are doing a good thing. No matter what our individual posts (and theories) may look like to (possible) future readers, we will hopefully have the privilege of giving FLEK's little girl the gift of who her mother was. I hope we will be able to provide all the details for her, from SS1988's fond memories of FLEK as a young woman to the unhappy fact that FLEK couldn't see any other way out except to kill herself.

I'm so proud of us and our jobs here! Thank you for this site and for the privilege of sharing it with you all!

lgr

 

[shadowdancer]

So much so she didn't even realise it was Christmas the next morning?

Anyway, it's beside the point and we can all have our own opinions. Back to sussing out who she is...

You are being too simplistic. Many people in her mental state just can't see what the impact of their suicide will be on others. When things get that bad, they just can't believe that anyone will be upset that they have died.

Its grossly unfair to expect a person who is that mentally ill to be able to think like a mentally well person can. We wouldn't expect a person with a broken leg to be able to run as well as a person with no leg injuries can run, so we shouldn't be expecting a person with a broken mind to have the same thought processes as other people.

I am sure that you don't mean to minimize this sort of mental illness, but it is important to try and stop this stigma against people who end their lives in the sort of way that FLEK did. She was hostage to her illness and she definately was not acting out of selfishness, she just wasn't well enough to realise what she was doing.

 

[MizKim]

You are being too simplistic. Many people in her mental state just can't see what the impact of their suicide will be on others. When things get that bad, they just can't believe that anyone will be upset that they have died.

I have a girl friend with bipolar disorder. She told me her depressive episodes felt like she was falling deeper and deeper down a big black hole with no means of climbing out of it.

She once tried to take her own life. She thought she would be doing her relatives a favor because she wouldn't be a burden on them any longer.

Mental illness is horrible.

 

[chaplain1]

It is also important to note that some of us hate the holidays.

 

[sloane7777]

I am bi polar with borderline personallty disorder and ptsd honestly I got bad this morning and I always think at the time it cant get worse and they would be much better off even if they found me it would be a sigh of relief......so I get her mental state 100%

the act itself is a cry for help or let it be over , we know she was in a horrible state , it might not be connected, she might have done this w/o all the name change etc anyway

 

[Sutton]

I am bi polar with borderline personallty disorder and ptsd honestly I got bad this morning and I always think at the time it cant get worse and they would be much better off even if they found me it would be a sigh of relief......so I get her mental state 100%

the act itself is a cry for help or let it be over , we know she was in a horrible state , it might not be connected, she might have done this w/o all the name change etc anyway

It is hard to reply to this type of post because I don't know what to say. Life really heaped a pile on you, was my first thought.

You might be able to answer questions (give your perspective) on something that's been discussed recently. Don't feel obligated to respond--it's somewhat personal. I know you have some family bc I scanned over your posting history and saw you mentioned your mom and a GD.

When you are at your worst and begin thinking others would be better off without you, do you ever stop and think how devastating it would be to your family? Or about the guilt and regret they would struggle with for the rest of their lives?

I would like to know if those type of thoughts occur to you? Do they affect your decisions? Are you so deep in your despair that you simply cannot recognize others would be hurt? Or is that the price that has to be paid because you simply cannot keep on living with such pain?

I hope you don't think I'm trying to make you feel bad or would judge you for ANY answer you give. I just thought this might be the only time I get to ask this question outright to someone with personal experience.

I have been sending you healing energy since I read your post, and will keep on sending it. Hope you are able to receive it.

 

[sloane7777]

It is hard to reply to this type of post because I don't know what to say. Life really heaped a pile on you, was my first thought.

You might be able to answer questions (give your perspective) on something that's been discussed recently. Don't feel obligated to respond--it's somewhat personal. I know you have some family bc I scanned over your posting history and saw you mentioned your mom and a GD.

When you are at your worst and begin thinking others would be better off without you, do you ever stop and think how devastating it would be to your family? Or about the guilt and regret they would struggle with for the rest of their lives?

I would like to know if those type of thoughts occur to you? Do they affect your decisions? Are you so deep in your despair that you simply cannot recognize others would be hurt? Or is that the price that has to be paid because you simply cannot keep on living with such pain?

I hope you don't think I'm trying to make you feel bad or would judge you for ANY answer you give. I just thought this might be the only time I get to ask this question outright to someone with personal experience.

I have been sending you healing energy since I read your post, and will keep on sending it. Hope you are able to receive it.

I don't mind at all , I am resolved to the fact that "it is what it is " at my worst I can tell you I don't think about anything but "make it stop" period, and I can tell you I am fanatical about my daughter and my little dogs to the point of being overprotective, involved in all her activities and dog mama activities etc. but when it hits , I am a whole other human who is nothing like my "good self" now as I have aged I've managed to merge a little more, but and am able to fake more than ever. but the real problem is the IMPULSE , when I get a bit overwhelmed ( and I do ) that's when the urge is greatest and you go into that hole where nothing can pull you out , even thinking about some of the things I have come very close to is scary, ...... I imagine that's exactly what happened it was impulse, unfortunately she had access to a loaded gun, I don't , my Hubby really knows how to deal he's done it since I was 21 , I'm almost 50 and still hanging in there so he's doing something right, she didn't have that , if she had 1/4 of the thoughts that I do , she never had a chance!......... so short answer NO I don't believe the Child ever entered her mind. Its an awful way to live but in perspective, so many people have it so much worse I don't have cancer , I wasn't born into poverty and starving, I haven't seen my family murdered in front of me , I could go on and on of course.....that little last tidbit is how I know I'm truly fine when my mind works like that sorry for the rambling

 

[j123]

Thank you so much for sharing that, sloane. Helping people to understand what you've gone through can have an impact that goes even beyond this forum. :heartbeat:

 

[sloane7777]

Thank you so much for sharing that, sloane. Helping people to understand what you've gone through can have an impact that goes even beyond this forum. :heartbeat:

Thank you for saying that

 

[dogperson]

As someone who has suffered several serious bouts of depression, I can say that there were times I thought my family would be better off without me. I wasn't thinking about it causing them pain, just that they wouldn't have to deal with me anymore.

On another note, maybe she didn't kill herself at the in-law's house for spite but committed suicide there in order to be near people she cared about. Maybe she felt less alone that way. It was Christmas, which can be a difficult time for anyone to feel alone, but maybe instead of thinking of it as something she did to punish them, she chose that location to be near people she knew.

 

[SassyBenton]

As much as I want to know who LEK is for my own personal curiosity, how do we know this case hasn’t been solved already? Someone very well may have contacted Velling and given her real identity when the article came out. Is the conclusion of a Social Security investigation usually announced to the public? Nope. The only reason the public knows about this investigation is being Velling asked for assistance. Maybe we will never know the truth…

 

[sloane7777]

As much as I want to know who LEK is for my own personal curiosity, how do we know this case hasn’t been solved already? Someone very well may have contacted Velling and given her real identity when the article came out. Is the conclusion of a Social Security investigation usually announced to the public? Nope. The only reason the public knows about this investigation is being Velling asked for assistance. Maybe we will never know the truth…

I thought someone followed up with Velling other than spring/summer , he did ask the public for help and that's not normal either , I believe his contact info was in the Seattle paper, but I swear on one of these threads , one of us contacted him about a week or so ago and its still very active

 

[WhittyG]

Given the potential that her identity change was due to serious and harmful situations, I can totally see them not releasing her identity. I really don't think they would close it without at least letting the public know it had been settled since they did ask for the public's help. It wouldn't hurt anything to say, "All is well. We found her identity, and we let her family know. Because of the nature of this case we cannot release her real identity." In nicer words, obviously.

 

[evafiore]

I thought someone followed up with Velling other than spring/summer , he did ask the public for help and that's not normal either , I believe his contact info was in the Seattle paper, but I swear on one of these threads , one of us contacted him about a week or so ago and its still very active

I contacted him a few weeks ago about the Cleveland/Ohio lead and he replied that he'd look into it. The Seattle journalist informed me more recently that, as far as she knows, he is still investigating the case.

 

[Linda9681]

He never replies to stuff I send. He may think I'm a "crazy" lol


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[Linda9681]

I was speaking to a friend from Ohio today. To mention the Ohio lead again, remember her password on the Internet site was " cedar " ? Well, there is a huge theme park there by the name of CEDAR POINT. evidently if you live in Ohio it's a huge local and tourist destination. It is very close to Clevland. I REALLY REALLY believe this lead is on the money, but truly have no idea how to follow up any further.


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