TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #3

[nycpizzaparty]

I haven't been able to read all of this thread so forgive me if this has been said before. It crossed my mind that given the notable physical resemblance between Lori Erica Ruff and Becky Sue's father, maybe it is possible that Lori was his illegitimate daughter, and that he is the connection between Lori and her use of Becky Sue's identity, before she went on to obtain yet another identity.

 

[brian1000]

Hope this helps in answering your questions
Start with post #339 on the thread "Becky Sue Turner and related, there is a lengthy discussion about birth certificates and the errors on BST's birth certificate.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?215592-Becky-Sue-Turner-and-related/page23

Thank you Sherwood Park. I reviewed this information. I had also seen other postings on the death certificate. It was good detective work for someone to have seen the 2 mistakes in the death certificate. I did try a search on the Washington state death records. But typical to a lot of information on the internet, the website I saw indicated that the county would keep the death records for all incidents of death in their county.

But the postings didn't get at the mechanics of the process. Obviously a physician or someone declares the person's death, and then the process of actually making up the death certificate commences. Either, the person making up the death certificate has access to a birth certificate, or has to access the birth certificate in the records. This could be done by a telephone call, I suppose. Becky Turner was born in California in Bakersfield, so a phone call might have been made to that county. I can see that mistakes occur when people get tired, and write one thing when they hear another. I want to investigate this further. I am making guesses as to what really happens with the creation of the death certificate. I would like facts.

Our sleuthing really hasn't delved into this process at all. It's important obviously that the death certificate be 100% correct in all the details. It's a legal document, and has so many ramifications if it is incorrect. In this case, a false identity seems to have been taken because of the mistakes in entry.

 

[jslk]

What's interesting is that he's not from CA, but seemed to be in the CA area when picking a CA dead baby's identity. In the preinternet days, I would imagine it would have been harder for FLEK to choose BST's identity if she wasn't local or related to/acquainted with the Turners. I guess if I could find archives, I would like to know how widely publicized BST's passing was. Was it in big newspapers, etc. How hard would it have been to come across BST's information in order to think it would be a good identity to steal? Just brainstorming...

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I have the feeling she may have used an identity-changing 'broker' rather than sourcing it all herself? I vaguely remember something of this sort...

 

[Sherwood Park]

I have the feeling she may have used an identity-changing 'broker' rather than sourcing it all herself? I vaguely remember something of this sort...

I feel that way as well, however, if she did use a 'broker', I have a feeling the broker took advantage of FLEK's (possibly family) connection to the Turner and Perkins family, both of Bakersfield and Washington (and a few other places).

The Perkins family I'm referring to is not that of Ben Perkins Jr.

If we could get one of the Turners or Perkins to talk that would go far in publicly solving this mystery. Of course it is their private family business and they can keep it to themselves, but I still wish for the case to be publicly solved.

A person doesn't go this far to hide their identity if there is no one out there to hide it from.

 

[milkymama]

I am "into" geneaology and what I've learned is that death certificates can be wrong when it comes to specifics such as birth dates and name spellings. This is due to the fact that these questions are being asked at a stressful time to the next of kin, who may be easily confused at the time due to the passing of their loved one. Or the next of kin could be someone not all that close to the deceased depending on the circumstances and may be making a best guess based on memory. The information really isn't verified.

 

[brian1000]

I am "into" geneaology and what I've learned is that death certificates can be wrong when it comes to specifics such as birth dates and name spellings. This is due to the fact that these questions are being asked at a stressful time to the next of kin, who may be easily confused at the time due to the passing of their loved one. Or the next of kin could be someone not all that close to the deceased depending on the circumstances and may be making a best guess based on memory. The information really isn't verified.

Thank you milkymama. I went back and really read the death certificate, likely something that family members even find hard to do. I had looked at another website on death certificates, which stated the death certificates for Washington state were kept at Dept. of County health after 1960. This or another website stipulated all the information that could be on a death certificate, such as even the occupation of the deceased. I read with a view to noting all the types of information. It seems that the death certificate was made out at the hospital. I see the signature of an attending physician on the certificate. Then it likely gets transferred to the County Dept. of Health. They probably don't check it out too much. It's doubtful that they would contact the Dept. of Health in Bakersfield, California where Becky was born.

I am back pretty much where I started from. It's not getting me any closer to understanding how Lori Kennedy had chosen this particular identity to take over. If I was Ian Rankin's character, Inspector Frank Rebus, I would not give up. Tiny clues are out there, and he keeps scratching until he finds them, in the character of Inspector Rebus.

 

[LkjAndersen]

I am thinking, maybe she scoured newspaper obituaries for possible girls without social security. In the Photos Only section of this subforum, there is an article, that mentions not only the death of the sisters, but also their respective places of birth, ie, that Becky Sue was born out of state. I am thinking at a library? Would you, ca. 1988, be able to at, say, the public library in Tacoma, find old newspapers or microfiches of them? And if so, would you be reasonably undisturbed and unquestioned? Would papers in Seattle or Spokane have carried the obit, or would you have been able to find newspapers from around the state in their public libraries?

 

[blondehart]

I was a counselor in a juvenile delinquent facility in the late 80s. A couple of my girls told me how they changed their identity.
They would go to cemeteries in isolated locations & pick out names of infants older than they were who had died. They'd then request birth certificate It was much easier in the days before computers.


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[Sherwood Park]

Thank you milkymama. I went back and really read the death certificate, likely something that family members even find hard to do. I had looked at another website on death certificates, which stated the death certificates for Washington state were kept at Dept. of County health after 1960. This or another website stipulated all the information that could be on a death certificate, such as even the occupation of the deceased. I read with a view to noting all the types of information. It seems that the death certificate was made out at the hospital. I see the signature of an attending physician on the certificate. Then it likely gets transferred to the County Dept. of Health. They probably don't check it out too much. It's doubtful that they would contact the Dept. of Health in Bakersfield, California where Becky was born.

I am back pretty much where I started from. It's not getting me any closer to understanding how Lori Kennedy had chosen this particular identity to take over. If I was Ian Rankin's character, Inspector Frank Rebus, I would not give up. Tiny clues are out there, and he keeps scratching until he finds them, in the character of Inspector Rebus.

I'm adding some links so people can see a little bit of what you are referring to,

Below is info from Washtington State Dept of Health - Death Data-Vital Stats
http://www.doh.wa.gov/DataandStatisticalReports/VitalStatisticsandPopulationData/Death

Below is a Washington state death worksheet for funeral directors to fill out with info provided to them from family, guardians, etc.
http://www.memorialsolutions.com/sitemaker/sites/pentti0/images/WADCWorksheet1.pdf

 

[dvo]

I was a counselor in a juvenile delinquent facility in the late 80s. A couple of my girls told me how they changed their identity.
They would go to cemeteries in isolated locations & pick out names of infants older than they were who had died. They'd then request birth certificate It was much easier in the days before computers.


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Thank you for this post! Could you possibly share a little more detail on your insight into this process and the types of situations that lead to girls choosing to change their identity? I have had trouble wrapping my head around realistic situations, and I think many people have, with there having been a lot of speculation over whether an identity broker was used, or whether she had a previous connection to the identity she stole, if it was random and pure luck that she was successful or if this was such common practice at the time that she faced very few obstacles in her identity switch. I've read posts that talk about this being an easy-to-learn-about process at the time but I've read very little first-hand insight into what it took for someone to make the decision to change their identity, the circumstances they were coming from and so forth. Any other insight you could provide would be a great contribution to this thread, I think, if there is anything you can share (again, I'm sorry if it's not ethically shareable information, please disregard in that case, I am just very interested and thought it might be worth asking)! Thanks in advance.

 

[brian1000]

I was a counselor in a juvenile delinquent facility in the late 80s. A couple of my girls told me how they changed their identity.
They would go to cemeteries in isolated locations & pick out names of infants older than they were who had died. They'd then request birth certificate It was much easier in the days before computers.


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With these young people, it seems that they just wanted the identity card to be able to enter some kind of facility or perhaps purchase liquor or cigarettes, that had previously not been allowed them because of their age. It points to a weakness of the system though, that such a feat could be accomplished so easily.
It makes me think that I am overthinking this whole issue of the mistakes in the death certificate being of primary importance. I wonder if this practice was easier to accomplish in some states than in others.

We don't track people very well in our governmental systems. So new identities are created, and when these young people tire of that new identity, they abandon it. They would just go in and out of the new identity as the opportunity arises to use it. Shouldn't it be a puzzle to government systems that people are going missing all the time when they can't track these new identities in future years.

I think that your point was made before. It just never hit me as it did this time.

 

[blondehart]

With these young people, it seems that they just wanted the identity card to be able to enter some kind of facility or perhaps purchase liquor or cigarettes, that had previously not been allowed them because of their age. It points to a weakness of the system though, that such a feat could be accomplished so easily.
It makes me think that I am overthinking this whole issue of the mistakes in the death certificate being of primary importance. I wonder if this practice was easier to accomplish in some states than in others.

We don't track people very well in our governmental systems. So new identities are created, and when these young people tire of that new identity, they abandon it. They would just go in and out of the new identity as the opportunity arises to use it. Shouldn't it be a puzzle to government systems that people are going missing all the time when they can't track these new identities in future years.

I think that your point was made before. It just never hit me as it did this time.

These girls were working as prostitutes & their pimps took them on "the circuit" from NY to FL and back. New identities were part of this human trafficking procedure.


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[Sherwood Park]

Is there anyone that can explain what this is or means?
http://156.42.40.50/UnOfficialDocs2/pdf/20031619391.pdf

I was revisiting the FLEK - Stalder connection. And thinking about FLEK + Arizona. This linked documents were from Arizona although J. Stalder a.k.a C.C. Stalder lived in Nevada.

 

[rosie_lee]

Is there anyone that can explain what this is or means?
http://156.42.40.50/UnOfficialDocs2/pdf/20031619391.pdf

I was revisiting the FLEK - Stalder connection. And thinking about FLEK + Arizona. This linked documents were from Arizona although J. Stalder a.k.a C.C. Stalder lived in Nevada.

When I click on the link it says "file or directory not found".

 

[Sherwood Park]

When I click on the link it says "file or directory not found".

Not sure why it didn't open for you. Do you have Adobe or a something that opens pdf files?
Here is a website link that should get you to where the file is.
http://recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocdata/GetRecDataDetail.aspx?rec=20031619391

 

[Linda9681]

So someone just posted this on the Facebook group. Wow. I circled the address at the bottom. The mockingbird address is listed as one in her stated addresses ( minus apt number)

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[shadowdancer]

Lots of that fits well into the puzzle pieces that we have about FLEK's life. The address, the dancing, - even the name Kennedy. If she was somehow mixed up with those people, it would certainly explain her decision to change her identity.

Very interesting indeed, even though this occurred before she was probably born!

 

[HerStory]

Okay, so Jack Ruby was involved with a stripper named 'Candy Barr'. Candy was also involved with a Mickey Cohen. Check out her Wikipedia info...

"While stripping at the Largo Club on the Sunset Strip in West Hollywood, she met gangster Mickey Cohen and became his girl. According to Cohen in his autobiography, In My Own Words, he helped her make bail after Gary Crosby told him, "One thing about that broad, she can make ya feel like a real man."[citation needed] Barr accompanied Cohen to the Saints and Sinners testimonial for Milton Berle in April 1959. The mobster, who insisted he wanted to marry her, eventually sent her and her four-year-old daughter to Mexico so she could evade arrest. He arranged for her hair to be dyed by hairdresser to the stars Jack Sahakian, provided her with a fake birth certificate and social security card, and gave her $1,200 cash. He later sent her $500 after she was established in a Mexican hideaway. She became restless there, however, and returned to the United States. During this time, her interest in Cohen foundered."

 

[NDMagoo]

Interesting find, but it seems more plausible that she might have stolen this infamous address while fabricating background details. Maybe she intentionally chose names and details connected to the Kennedy assassination and the people around it. Assuming that she was literally involved with them seems a massive leap of logic. But maybe it points to a possible Dallas origin?

 

[lindamichelle1]

I tried to post earlier but couldnt log in on my phone coz i forgot my password lol, im home now and doesnt look like its been mentioned as far as I can see, on facebook they seem to be talking about this woman.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/197dfpa.html
It definitely looks like her.