TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

[Gardener1850]

As to the question of when the ID expired, these are the current guidelines: http://www.dmv.org/id-idaho/id-cards.php
If it was the same back in 1988 that ID would have only been valid for 2 years, until she "turned 21". That would be July 18, 1990.
So she would have needed to renew it to continue to work as BST past July 18, 1990.
Interesting that she got her LK passport in March of 1990. Was that because the usefulness of the BST ID was about to run out? Was there something she was doing that she needed photo ID for but didn't want to use an ID with her current address/SSN# on it? Maybe the name wasn't important, just having a photo ID was what she needed?

 

[mrseeker]

IF she traveled back and forth frequently maybe it was a good mid-way stop?
Easy to pick up the mail when the Greyhound Bus stopped for a passenger break?
Or maybe she had a traveling job working in the surrounding states and that was just a good location to get her mail? Darknagel suggested she was in Jobcorps and I think that's pretty good idea. Were there any circuses or carnivals that traveled those western states (Boulder City is centrally located for reaching CA, NV, UT, and AZ but WA, OR and ID are not for away either).

I lived about 4 miles from the boulder city limits in the mid 90's and from the late 80's I lived a bit further away in Nevada. The only reason to visit boulder city back then was to tour the dam. It was a sleepy retirement town. The only casino was outside the city limits as you approached the dam. If you drive over the dam the first real town you come to is Kingman AZ on I-40. Not sure the distance but it's a good drive. If you were to drive your own car to dallas from vegas, or even Phoenix, you might have used that route.. From Boise it does not look like you would head south through Nevada. I am leaning towards she used the bus at some point from Boise to somewhere, and eventually Dallas.

 

[awillis0513]

Wife looks " familiar". She " likes" a religious tea group!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I found this interesting...

http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php...924890-191/flds-coffee-church-sltrib.html.csp

We've speculated a lot of religious groups and when thinking about LDS (the H family rundown reminded me of it), FLEK's love of tea always threw me off.

Apparently, most fundamentalist LDS groups drink caffeine because they split from the LDS church before the priesthood really stressed this part of the doctrine.

Also, like the H family, there seems to be a trait of long hands amongst this group.

Just thinking...MOO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gardener1850]

I lived about 4 miles from the boulder city limits in the mid 90's and from the late 80's I lived a bit further away in Nevada. The only reason to visit boulder city back then was to tour the dam. It was a sleepy retirement town. The only casino was outside the city limits as you approached the dam. If you drive over the dam the first real town you come to is Kingman AZ on I-40. Not sure the distance but it's a good drive. If you were to drive your own car to dallas from vegas, or even Phoenix, you might have used that route.. From Boise it does not look like you would head south through Nevada. I am leaning towards she used the bus at some point from Boise to somewhere, and eventually Dallas.

I wonder how long she kept that Boulder City PO Box? We are told so little about it, just that she had it in the late 1980's. I keep thinking about how she asked Blake to take her to Las Vegas for a second wedding. What could have been her purpose in wanting to go there in 2004? Could she have held onto the PO Box all that time and closed it out in 2004? Or maybe she also had a Safe Deposit Box there with her lock box contents in it and she cleaned that out once she was sure Blake would obey her requests to stay out of it? She moved so frequently in Dallas it seems like she would want to keep her secret lockbox someplace other than her residence. Once she got married though she wouldn't be able to just take trips to Boulder City whenever she wanted. She would have to have a reason to tell Blake for why she wanted to go there. I wonder if Blake ever asked her to show him her "hometown" of Scottsdale? If they drove the South route through El Paso and Tuscon they could have driven right through Scottsdale on the way to Vegas. But I guess Blake wasn't the curious type...

 

[OBrunhilde!]

Are there any seasonal jobs in Idaho that she could have gone to work at under the name of BST? The unclaimed property was reported in 2008. So IF she went to Idaho for some jobs between 1997-2001 maybe she never picked up her last paycheck? Maybe it took 7 years to get reported? Could she have put down Texas as her home state but not an exact address and the State of Idaho looked for a BST and just assumed the real BST in Texas was FLEK? Would they do that?

Another question is, was the ID even still good in 1997-2001 or did she get it renewed and destroy the newer ID sometime before her death? Surely the Idaho DMV checked for a license renewal, right?

As for seasonal jobs in Idaho, Sun Valley resort is a possibility-- very popular for skiing in the winter and hiking/biking/swimming in the summer. People in their late teens and early 20s around here in WA loved to work there during that time-- highly coveted jobs for college students. SV is about 2 hours east of Boise. Closer to Oregon than to Spokane, WA. This and a 1.50 will get you 1/2 a cup of coffee, but in her IDaho ID photo, she really looks like a typical co-Ed to me. Kinda rumpled and disheveled shirt, minimal or no makeup, pony tail, tweeky fringe, no earrings... Like everyone looked when I was in college at in 1988.

This is super far fetched, but Hayden Lake, ID was home to a large compound of neo-nazis during that time. Hayden lake is very close to Coeur d'Alene, ID (a big resort town now, but not in 1988) and Spokane, WA. If she was in any way involved with that, I can see why she might want a fresh start. But that seems quite unlikely!

 

[Gardener1850]

I found this interesting...

http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php...924890-191/flds-coffee-church-sltrib.html.csp

We've speculated a lot of religious groups and when thinking about LDS (the H family rundown reminded me of it), FLEK's love of tea always threw me off.

Apparently, most fundamentalist LDS groups drink caffeine because they split from the LDS church before the priesthood really stressed this part of the doctrine.

Also, like the H family, there seems to be a trait of long hands amongst this group.

Just thinking...MOO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What do you make of Lori being a vegetarian?
I'm not familiar with LDS or FLDS views on meat. I know Seventh Day Adventists avoid meat for religious reasons but that's the only Christian sect I'm familiar with that prescribes vegetarianism (and the SDA's I know are not strict about it).

 

[Gardener1850]

As for seasonal jobs in Idaho, Sun Valley resort is a possibility-- very popular for skiing in the winter and hiking/biking/swimming in the summer. People in their late teens and early 20s around here in WA loved to work there during that time-- highly coveted jobs for college students. SV is about 2 hours east of Boise. Closer to Oregon than to Spokane, WA. This and a 1.50 will get you 1/2 a cup of coffee, but in her IDaho ID photo, she really looks like a typical co-Ed to me. Kinda rumpled and disheveled shirt, minimal or no makeup, pony tail, tweeky fringe, no earrings... Like everyone looked when I was in college at in 1988.

BBM. See, I always thought she looked so disheveled because she had been traveling from somewhere for several days to get to Idaho for the ID or she had been living on the street/out of a car. But now that you mention it, the typical college student in the '80's and '90's looked like they could be homeless. She would have fit right in.

 

[Linda9681]

What do you make of Lori being a vegetarian?
I'm not familiar with LDS or FLDS views on meat. I know Seventh Day Adventists avoid meat for religious reasons but that's the only Christian sect I'm familiar with that prescribes vegetarianism (and the SDA's I know are not strict about it).

When I researched the FLDS, they were vegetarians out of necessity. Meat was too expensive. With the Lebaron clan, they were always starving.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[awillis0513]

What do you make of Lori being a vegetarian?
I'm not familiar with LDS or FLDS views on meat. I know Seventh Day Adventists avoid meat for religious reasons but that's the only Christian sect I'm familiar with that prescribes vegetarianism (and the SDA's I know are not strict about it).

Apparently, a lot of FLDS members were put on all bean diets while the elite members are meat. So, this would be possible. My sister-in-law lost her taste for meat after living with vegetarians and never buying it for herself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gardener1850]

When I researched the FLDS, they were vegetarians out of necessity. Meat was too expensive. With the Lebaron clan, they were always starving.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting. I know vegetarians that tried to go back to eating meat and were really sick when they first ate it. After so many years of not eating meat the body has trouble digesting it or something. Maybe Lori was "forced" to remain vegetarian because meat made her too sick after years without eating it. Her love of Cuban food as a vegetarian is really puzzled though, unless she was the type of "vegetarian" that didn't worry about things like if something was fried in lard or used a meat-based broth. I know that is not being vegetarian at all, but there are people who eat like that. I wonder where Lori fell on the spectrum of vegetarianism? Was she strict about it? Did she refuse to even cook Blake a burger? or did she just eat around the meat and didn't care what other people ate?

 

[awillis0513]

Interesting. I know vegetarians that tried to go back to eating meat and were really sick when they first ate it. After so many years of not eating meat the body has trouble digesting it or something. Maybe Lori was "forced" to remain vegetarian because meat made her too sick after years without eating it. Her love of Cuban food as a vegetarian is really puzzled though, unless she was the type of "vegetarian" that didn't worry about things like if something was fried in lard or used a meat-based broth. I know that is not being vegetarian at all, but there are people who eat like that. I wonder where Lori fell on the spectrum of vegetarianism? Was she strict about it? Did she refuse to even cook Blake a burger? or did she just eat around the meat and didn't care what other people ate?

I wouldn't doubt that she became a vegetarian out of pure necessity rather that a personal conviction against meat. I would imagine being a strict vegetarian in parts of Texas could be difficult.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gardener1850]

So, back to Boulder City, NV. In 1988 the Hoover Dam Museum opened there. Could Lori have had something to do with the Grand Opening? Like a job there or a connection to someone involved?
http://digital.library.unlv.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/pho&CISOPTR=11008&CISOBOX=1&REC=6

 

[Gardener1850]

Boulder City Chamber of Commerce members: http://www.chamberorganizer.com/bouldercity/directory_all
Most interesting are those who have been members since 1988/1989. I wonder if any of those long-time Boulder City residents would recognize FLEK?

 

[llywrch]

We've discussed that record before, but thanks for bringing it back up. No one can explain why the address she used on her 1988 Idaho ID is dated 1997-2001 in the public address history. The only thing we have come up with is that the address history dates are not always correct. Several of us looked up our own family member's address history and found errors.

When I ran a check against one of my family members (my Dad), & found errors in date, some of it was immediately understandable. For instance, his name was connected to a piece of land where he had never lived -- in fact, there hasn't been a structure on the property for over 50 years -- but from the date & the address I knew it was a piece of land my stepmother & her brother owned, & sold about that time; I figure he had to sign something as a condition of the sale, & that document is how the database recorded him as living there.

Just another reason I'd like to see the primary sources used to construct this database: they would explain how these errors came to be.

Let's say for a minute it is correct and there was something to tie her to that address from 1997-2001. What could that be? Money in an unclaimed account that was reported in 1997 and claimed in 2001? 97-01 is roughly the amount of time it would take to go through either high school or to college. Could someone else have used the BST name and that address as well in 97 to go to school in Boise? Student loan forms? FLEK filled her FASFA out in 96/97 and made no mention of Idaho or that address but what if she let a friend borrow her BST ID or someone else borrowed it?

First, I thought she used the BST to transition to LEK simply to make it harder for someone to uncover her birth identity. (It sure hasn't made it any easier.) I don't know the issues for an adult obtaining an SSN for the first time -- I received mine when I was 13 -- but it might be having a name change pre-empts any troublesome questions.

But your questions open a new line of thought. What if the birth certificate for BST is part of an identity theft ring? What if there are several women out there who changed their names from BST to another one? That would be worth the SSA's time to investigate, & I suspect the relevant databases are computerized making a search more or less trivial to search.

Another random thought--would it be possible for Lori to use that BST ID to get credit cards in the name of BST in Idaho and run them up? LEK had just gone through bankruptcy in 1997. She worked and paid off the bankruptcy settlement ahead of time--which always seemed hinky to me. We have her employment history from that time and if her resume lists all the jobs she had (i.e IF she wasn't getting paid under the table for something else) then she probably wasn't making big bucks at the little contract jobs she took for 6 months-a year. Could she have somehow gotten away with a CC scam for 4-5 years, having the bills sent to Idaho? She never connected the Idaho address to her new ID in Texas as far as we can tell. If she managed to get a CC in BST's name sent to that address then how would the banks find her to get payment? By 2001, many cc's could be paid online so she might have made very minimum payments form Texas or even gotten one of those deals where you pay no payment/no interest for X number of years. Those types of cc offers were everywhere prior to the big market drop 2008/2009. It used to be much easier for people to run up a big cc bill without making even a minimum payment. IDK, I'm just throwing out suggestions to explain the this weird address date.

I don't know if it's likely LEK was actively a part of a credit card scam, but now that you mention it the speed LEK paid off her bankruptcy settlement was unusual. I just thought that she lived very frugally & managed to pay it all off. But the jobs she is known to have held don't pay all that much, & one is living frugally from them to begin with.

So where did she find the money to pay off her bankruptcy debt? From all indications, she wasn't making much money from her online business, so I doubt she was working as an Internet entrepreneur during the late 1990s. And if she had been one, we'd know about it well before now: back then Internet entrepreneurs did a lot of self-promotion, & even if she was promoting herself under a different name, someone would have recognized her from those days.

Maybe if we had the records of her bankruptcy the answer would be obvious. Perhaps the amount she had to pay to discharge it wasn't that onerous.

Someone a few pages back expressed an interest in seeing LEK's credit report but would a credit report for LEK even show anything done in the name of BST?

I don't think a credit report would show much useful information. Having bought a few houses, & having refinanced them once or twice each, I have seen my own credit reports & what they contain. (I tried to find a copy of one this evening, but couldn't.) They only go back 7 or 10 years, & cover all records in the person's name -- if the clerk entered the name correctly. (Many credit records have errors.) If she had any credit cards in the name of BST, there would not be any trace in her credit report. Further, even if we could get a recent CR on LEK, it would only cover her activity back to 2006.

And assuming we could get one that covered the period 1997-2001, primarily what it would show are whom she owed money to -- utilities, credit cards, loans -- & how promptly she paid her bills. There'd also be a record of her bankruptcy -- it stays on one's credit history for 7 years in the US -- as well as any credit checks. (Too many credit checks in a short period of time actually harms your credit score.)

And if she wanted to obtain any additional income that could not be connected to her, she could have used her birth name. If anyone had been looking for her, after almost 10 years they had most likely given up the search. And as I speculated in another post, it is possible she had been alternating between her birth name & LEK for the first few years she lived in Dallas.

Sheesh, instead of answers, when we look closer at the facts we only find more rabbit holes for us to travel down.

 

[OBrunhilde!]

What do you make of Lori being a vegetarian?
I'm not familiar with LDS or FLDS views on meat. I know Seventh Day Adventists avoid meat for religious reasons but that's the only Christian sect I'm familiar with that prescribes vegetarianism (and the SDA's I know are not strict about it).

i really wonder about her vegetarianism too. It is the one thing that makes me think she really might be from the PNW. There are many vegetarians/vegans in Seattle and Portland.

I wasn't aware that vegetarianism was a common SDA practice. I just found another tie to what I thought was LDS in that family I posted about earlier. But honestly, I don't know the difference between LDS and SDA-- maybe I am confusing the two. I need to educate myself!

Some Buddhists are vegetarian. Perhaps LEK's vegetarianism is a vestige of her time with the Chinese roommate that we were researching a few days ago?

 

[Weyden]

I haven't given up, but I had to slow way down due to summer/family obligations.

I hope this isn't too much info, if so, moderators, please help me. I tried hard to keep it to a minimum.

I was pointed in the direction of someone who is a friend of the Hwdr clan. Her initials are WB. Her first name is the same as one of the Hwdr fam, as in the 60s pop tune by The Association, "everyone knows it's ____" 💨💨💨 Last name is a common English surname-- a male servant is called a ___ ? Not valet WB has 3 sisters (initials are for the names they use on FB):
CM--the oldest sister. She resembles LEK, and has hands like hers too. She has always lived in Texas. She is in her 40s.
DMB-- next oldest. Does not resemble LEK. She went to HS in one of the HWDR-related towns in E WA, and still lives close to there. She is 10 years older than WB.
TJ-- (same name as TT's eldest surviving daughter, TJ, but spelled differently) she is from TX, but now lives in E WA in the same town as as DMB. Along with WB, she was in foster care in UT with an LDS family.
WB-- she lives in E WA in the same town as the Hwdr fam. She knows them. She is LDS.
Some or all are half sisters, who didn't consistently live together whilst growing up. Their mother's name is CBM-- born in 1957. She resembles LEK. CBM is from TX originally, but was living and died (in 2012) in an E WA town, that is a HWDR fam town too. I couldn't get a good look at her hands as they were not visible in pictures, but CBM's mother had hands like LEK. CBM had her first daughter, CM, young-- 18 if I recall correctly. Here's where things get interesting-- one of CBM's daughters mentioned in a post about adoption that they were missing a sister. So there is a 4th child somewhere. Granted, CBM would have had to be very young to have given birth to LEK and given her up for adoption, but if LEK is actually on the younger end of the age range, it is possible.

I have been reticent about contacting the sisters because I am not sure if anyone has been working this lead already? Don't want to bug them any more than is necessary. Also, I am not really able to organize and take notes right now, so If anyone else is interested in scouring online sources, that would be great!

I'm on it. I messaged DMB and she is very open and interested in looking into a possible connection. She wants me to call her today so I'm hoping that will work out. My only hesitation is that even though I've been following this case closely and have done some research, I don't have the working knowledge of it that some of you have developed from all the man hours you've put in. I'm more than happy to talk to her but if any of you would prefer that I put her in touch with one of you (experts! lol) I would be more than happy to do that as well. Whatever is best for all involved.

 

[mrseeker]

I wonder how long she kept that Boulder City PO Box? We are told so little about it, just that she had it in the late 1980's. I keep thinking about how she asked Blake to take her to Las Vegas for a second wedding. What could have been her purpose in wanting to go there in 2004? Could she have held onto the PO Box all that time and closed it out in 2004? Or maybe she also had a Safe Deposit Box there with her lock box contents in it and she cleaned that out once she was sure Blake would obey her requests to stay out of it? She moved so frequently in Dallas it seems like she would want to keep her secret lockbox someplace other than her residence. Once she got married though she wouldn't be able to just take trips to Boulder City whenever she wanted. She would have to have a reason to tell Blake for why she wanted to go there. I wonder if Blake ever asked her to show him her "hometown" of Scottsdale? If they drove the South route through El Paso and Tuscon they could have driven right through Scottsdale on the way to Vegas. But I guess Blake wasn't the curious type...

They haven't really explained how they even knew about this drop box in Boulder City. The Seattle Times article said she had them forward her mail to Dallas. What did they find that led them to this mail box? There are so many holes in the info we have. I am trying to understand why if you are traveling you suddenly need to provide an address to someone. So was she in Boise waiting on a check? So she could not wait any longer and kept calling whoever was sending it as she road the bus to dallas. Then when she gets to Boulder City, she opens this box and gives it to the sender, then arranges for this letter to be forwarded on to Dallas? Maybe she waited there a few days, but she was in Dallas by July 5th to complete the name change. But where to in Dallas? General delivery?

 

[mrseeker]

What do you make of Lori being a vegetarian?
I'm not familiar with LDS or FLDS views on meat. I know Seventh Day Adventists avoid meat for religious reasons but that's the only Christian sect I'm familiar with that prescribes vegetarianism (and the SDA's I know are not strict about it).

Maybe she was a Rajneeshee in Oregon in the mid 80's. They kind of were busted up after they tried to poison that town.

 

[Linda9681]

I'm on it. I messaged DMB and she is very open and interested in looking into a possible connection. She wants me to call her today so I'm hoping that will work out. My only hesitation is that even though I've been following this case closely and have done some research, I don't have the working knowledge of it that some of you have developed from all the man hours you've put in. I'm more than happy to talk to her but if any of you would prefer that I put her in touch with one of you (experts! lol) I would be more than happy to do that as well. Whatever is best for all involved.

Ok good. I was talking to WB, but she has a LOT of personal issues going on right now and really needs to focus on herself and her family until they are resolved. I am glad you found a second contact in the family.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Linda9681]

Ok y'all. Please try to pick a topic( it helps to divide and conquer) and follow it through. We are losing very promising leads by " maybe it was this" maybe that" with no valid lead or reason. It buries the real leads we have. No disrespect but it is BERY confusing!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk