Discussion in '2010's Missing' started by los2188, Mar 11, 2017.
Information & conversation has been very one-sided. LE hasn't responded to my many questions yet.
No, there are no life insurance policies.
I feel absolutely sick seeing this. Great sleuthing on your part, Lori, and thank you so much for sharing.
The cased was filed on April 20th. This leads me to believe the process (e.g., initial consultation with the attorney, gathering of required documents in preparation for the filing, collecting necessary signatures, etc.) itself was initiated much earlier. I went through a divorce just last year. I was very happy with the attorney who worked on my case, but it was very tedious. I would expect the process of obtaining a death certificate to be much more involved.
PaPaw disappeared on March 10th. Between March 10th and April 20th, there were 27 business days (April 16th: Easter).
Just exactly how did all of this happen?
Both sons are "theirs." Daughters are "his."
Was there an obituary for Mr. Chambers or any services?
Could LE have allowed the death certificate filing to progress to build a case against someone?
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
It's very difficult to do a murder case against someone without finding the body.
It can be done, but it is very difficult.
Is it perjury to go before a probate judge and say that John Doe passed away and here is his death certificate and you don't think he is dead?
I don't know that perjury would be the correct word, but it's not something that you'd want to do if you weren't 99% certain.
*All statements are of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*
Natalee Holloway's father had her declared before the 7 years was up, at I believe 6.5 years though, not less than 6 weeks. His reason was so that he could stop paying for her health insurance and so that her brother could use the funds she had in some account. I'm going off of memory here, but I am pretty sure that was the reason.
So, although the Chambers family may not have needed to 'get' money they may simply have wanted to stop any out-flow related to MC.
The camera from the neighbor was not useful. It captured kind of "blobs" on the footage, from my understanding. It wasn't there to focus on the street, but to focus on their own home/property, you know? So you can see that a vehicle passed by, but not any identifying info other than maybe truck vs car and red vs blue.
I'll post about this in a moment. It's not a normal death certificate, and the sheriff did not need to form a complete opinion of whether or not he thinks Papaw is deceased to sign it or to have continued the investigation.
As for the governor... I haven't gotten into that post yet. Still dealing with this other crap.
I have most definitely thought about that.
If HCSO is doing its job, a very good possibility, IMO.
I am having a very hard time understanding just how BC was able to obtain the death certificate so quickly.
I have to look this up what the rules are in TX, but for example, when I had my name legally changed a few years ago (not due to marriage; had to do with how my name appeared on my green card and DL) here in MI, there was at least one public notice that had to remain in publication for several days in the local newspaper. I also had to get a criminal background check, which involved getting fingerprinted at the local sheriff's office, mailing all pertinent information along with the fingerprint card'to the state police, which in turn had the FBI perform the background checked as required. The background check alone took four or five weeks. And my non-citizen status did not have anything to do with what was required; the rules apply to everyone over the age of 22 who applies for a legal name change in the state of MI.
PaPaw's disappearance to filing: 27 business days. I would imagine there would have been some research done even before meeting with a lawyer. LE would pay attention this kind of thing, IMO.
Can LE work with the judicial sector if they are surveiling someone to let a death certificate go through so the POI doesn't know they are on the radar? This is what I am wondering. I remember the great lengths that LE went to in the Darla Dippolito case in order to arrest her. Could something be happening here behind the scenes. If so how could LE let ANY family member into the loop. They don't know who all is involved.
I have an over active imagination. And this case breaks me. My now adult kids love their Pop-pop so much. I can't imagine if this was happening to my family.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Update on some things that are being said about Papaw (Michael Chambers) today...
As a family member posted on FB (can I link that post here??), the information given by the DFD pension board about Papaw is based on legal & accounting advice. The certificate received is one that allows BC to be the legal executor of the estate - Letters of Testamentary (not a flat out death certificate, and yes, there is a BIG difference in how things are handled with that - especially financially), HOWEVER - we have NO proof that Papaw is dead. THERE IS NOT EVIDENCE THAT HE IS DEAD, read on to understand that a bit better. And yes, this DEFINITELY upsets many family members, but having consulted a lawyer on the options to be able to make various decisions on Papaw's behalf, the decision was made that this was what needed to happen. Not everyone agrees with this route, but the other route was divorce, which BC was 1,000% opposed to for emotional/sentimental reasons. THIS CERTIFICATE DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT IS "TOO LATE" TO PUSH FOR FUTHER INVESTIGATION. It's different.
As our family has repeatedly stated, we are working in every way possible to find Papaw still. We don't believe that he is dead, not by suicide, and we hope not by any other means. Nor does almost anyone, not anyone who knows him, anyway. We will not stop, we will not give up. We need answers, but our family also needs to be able to take action when necessary. THIS PIECE OF PAPER (again, not a normal death certificate) DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT WE ARE TRYING TO FIND PAPAW OR WANT THIS TO BE DECLARED A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION! That is why the sheriff's department continues to investigate, assumedly to the best of their abilities. That is why we continue to answer questions here and on FB. That is why we have not had a funeral or ceremony, for Christ's sake. Because we still hope for answers, and we still wait for those who's job it is to find Papaw to do exactly that. And we hope beyond measure that HCSO will do everything in their power - including enlisting resources beyond their own department - to find out the truth.
Also, so everyone can get on the same page, here is some information regarding a common misconception: The STATE will automatically declare someone dead after 7 years of missing with no trace. However, you can get a "Letter of Testamentary," in certain circumstances, if there is need to make certain decisions related to a married couple's estate. To my knowledge, THIS type of certificate doesn't require the proof of death as a normal certificate of death would. Most judges and Sheriff's departments will go along with that and still continue their investigation, and there are certain safeguards that are in place as well in those instances, including any monetary gain being balanced in various ways to protect Papaw's "interests" should he turn up before the state declares it official. "Evidence" of death is not required for this certificate, only reasonable evidence that you should be able to manage the estate alone (I hate typing all of this...). If Papaw shows up now, or a year from now, or beyond that, the certificate CAN and WILL be "undone," which is one of the big differences in a normal death certificate. There is no life insurance that this causes to take effect, to head off that question.
All this means is that family is able to do things like sell property in his name and on his behalf that they can't take care of without Papaw, or even just make decisions such as what deductions are taken from any checks, what accounts are handled in what manner - none of that can be done without Papaw's consent, so this helps with that. If my husband went missing, I'd have to do the same - our names are on everything together, and I wouldn't be able to afford car payments without his income as well, I'd also want to change things like taking investment mixes from 90% aggressive to much more conservative, or even take him off of things like vision insurance, which I wouldn't be able to do without him... That's not necessarily the case with Papaw, but with all the uproar about the pension funds in Dallas, I DO know that certain signatures were needed to prevent a decrease in the amount being distributed and the frequency, which couldn't happen without this exact move (or a divorce, but that was making BC burst into tears whenever it was brought up). If your financial needs depended on one signature that you couldn't obtain because the party was missing - what would you do? So even if it had nothing to do with anything else, is that not enough to make this the "right" move?
As for it "not being brought to light" for 2 months - if I'd known any of the dates, I would have posted to head this exact $hit storm off. I DID know it was happening, I did not know when or what all would be "out there" to be known by the public. Out of respect for BC, I wouldn't be posting this if it weren't public info anyway.
I do not appreciate the difficult decisions our family is having to make at the most trying of times being scrutinized and torn apart by people who know nothing about our situation or who haven't even BEEN in a SIMILAR situation.
The questions you all are asking here are welcome. I don't care if others in our family find them hurtful or not (sorry to other family members who might be reading these boards, but I really don't care if it helps find Papaw), if something you ask has any chance to pry something loose in the investigation, then keep on asking.
Thank you Pmerle00. Obviously you owe us nothing, but thank you for taking the time to explain the legality of what you all are going through. We pick everything apart here. It's what we do. I'm sure reading here is very hard on you. Your Pawpaw is lucky to have you fighting for him.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
I just don't want people to stop looking for him based a %$&*#%$#*()*($@# piece of paper.
Thank you so very much for explaining the process to us, even when you didn't have to. As our minds are geared to try to understand every little thing, process, reason something might happen, etc. it is valuable for us to learn things as we go, to perhaps understand things in future cases as well as to digest what did/didn't happen with Papaw.
It's also good that this is made clear so, as you said, people don't stop looking for him alive. Now all can know that circulating flyers, sharing posts, watching for him out in public anywhere in the world, etc. is still very worthwhile and continue to do so instead of perhaps moving onto other cases that need that kind of help.
I am supremely relieved to know that this is truly 'just a piece of paper' and we can all continue to hope that he is found alive and well. Hugs.
I updated my previous post, but wanted to stress: the "certificate" received was not a death certificate, but was a Letter of Testamentary, which required announcements in papers and the pension board. Yes, that type of letter is typically obtained when a person dies and an executor needs to settle an estate, but there are other applications, such as this one.
Thanks for answering.
I am sorry for being so nitpicky, and yes, I understand what you mean.
So as you understand and according to HCSO, was the other side of the street (PaPaw's side) completely outside the view of the camera? I am asking this question because it seems to me -as a layperson- even if it's just a blob -thus no specific identifying into-, so long as the vehicle is within the camera's view, you would be able to tell whether it's just passing by or turning. I would expect this to be true especially if the turning vehicle is on the neighbor's side of the street, as opposed to making a right turn into PaPaw's driveway. I'm sorry if I am not making much sense.
Or was the information from HCSO more general, like "We couldn't really get anything pertinent to the case from the video"?