Found Deceased TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #5

[ocgrad]

That's just the thing. I'm not sure there is a motive here. You all know what Im thinking, whether correct or not.

I find it perplexing that the $180,000 kept getting rolled over and over again. MC strikes me as the type of man who wouldn't be comfortable with that debt hanging over his head for all those years. Where was their money going to if not toward the loan?

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I agree I find the mortgage very perplexing. I noticed it went from a 30 yr to a 15 yr so their payments would have gone up. I wonder if he used the equity in the house to fund his car hobby. Restoring cars is not a cheap hobby.

 

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[jellybean96]

I agree I find the mortgage very perplexing. I noticed it went from a 30 yr to a 15 yr so their payments would have gone up. I wonder if he used the equity in the house to fund his car hobby. Restoring cars is not a cheap hobby.

Or if they were using the equity to pay of credit cards bills? From what I recall, BC liked travel and shopping. Neither are cheap.

 

[Razz]

Yes I agree, although that is part of sleuthing and investigating isn't it. Unfortunately. I often feel that way. But then it isn't peeping into lives just for a kick or to spread gossip, here again motive plays a part, for those of us who want, through lots of minds brainstorming together and bouncing off others ideas, to bring some small piece of information that could help bring justice and closure. Without knowing Suzy, I am very much like her in that I would hate to see someone get away with murder and go about living their lives. Irks me! Even though I believe this life is but a moment and there is a judge in heaven from whom no one escapes.

I hear you and all the others! I am looking at this from another angle, another voice if you will.

These are the reasons I bring the following up:

The sale or non sale of the Italy, TX property. If sold, when did it happen and where did the money go? Did someone recently come into money that perhaps shouldn't have?

Not paying the loan down: that bothers me because during the refinancing, it looks like maybe they bundled the fees into the new loan. And how many re- finances were there?! So where was their money going if not toward the loan?

If I'm the wife of a man who was spending mortgage money on a hobby, I'd be very ticked. (Not saying that was what was going on with MC) but, I could see that causing a huge rift.
(Certainly not enough to have him murdered) but maybe she'd broached the idea of divorce if the spending didn't decrease.

On the other hand, maybe it was up to the wife to pay the bills. Maybe she's paying only the minimum and keeping the money for who knows what else.

He was receiving retirement along with social security. She was working and from the sound of it, had a well paying job. No kids at home. All of this for the last 10 years! And yet, no progress (maybe there has been since 2015) on a loan! Why?








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[SavetheQueen]

I’m still wondering where he is, and who harmed him.


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[nannymo]

I don't understand it either. It seems strange that during that entire time the principal didn't decrease one iota.
But....I'm a kook re finances.

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I am not familiar with re-financing much, but do you think they were refinancing (modifying) the note every few years and borrowing against the value of the house? In other words, its worth at least 180,000 and we can get another $3-4000 if we refinance. A maturity date of of 2033-2034 would make MC still making a house payment when he was 85 years old! Not a wise move I don't think.

 

[Midge Montana]

I’m still wondering where he is, and who harmed him.


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DITTO. Waiting patiently on KIC to figure that out.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

I hear you and all the others! I am looking at this from another angle, another voice if you will.

These are the reasons I bring the following up:

The sale or non sale of the Italy, TX property. If sold, when did it happen and where did the money go? Did someone recently come into money that perhaps shouldn't have?

Not paying the loan down: that bothers me because during the refinancing, it looks like maybe they bundled the fees into the new loan. And how many re- finances were there?! So where was their money going if not toward the loan?

If I'm the wife of a man who was spending mortgage money on a hobby, I'd be very ticked. (Not saying that was what was going on with MC) but, I could see that causing a huge rift.
(Certainly not enough to have him murdered) but maybe she'd broached the idea of divorce if the spending didn't decrease.

On the other hand, maybe it was up to the wife to pay the bills. Maybe she's paying only the minimum and keeping the money for who knows what else.

He was receiving retirement along with social security. She was working and from the sound of it, had a well paying job. No kids at home. All of this for the last 10 years! And yet, no progress (maybe there has been since 2015) on a loan! Why?

*****************

Okay, now u guys really have me wondering with all this re-fi talk. Is there any way to view the original re-fi papers to verify both signatures are legit? MC just sounds like such a level-headed guy....can’t imagine he would want to still be paying off a mortgage at the ripe old age of 85. Makes no sense.....

 

[ocgrad]

I hear you and all the others! I am looking at this from another angle, another voice if you will.

These are the reasons I bring the following up:

The sale or non sale of the Italy, TX property. If sold, when did it happen and where did the money go? Did someone recently come into money that perhaps shouldn't have?

Not paying the loan down: that bothers me because during the refinancing, it looks like maybe they bundled the fees into the new loan. And how many re- finances were there?! So where was their money going if not toward the loan?

If I'm the wife of a man who was spending mortgage money on a hobby, I'd be very ticked. (Not saying that was what was going on with MC) but, I could see that causing a huge rift.
(Certainly not enough to have him murdered) but maybe she'd broached the idea of divorce if the spending didn't decrease.

On the other hand, maybe it was up to the wife to pay the bills. Maybe she's paying only the minimum and keeping the money for who knows what else.

He was receiving retirement along with social security. She was working and from the sound of it, had a well paying job. No kids at home. All of this for the last 10 years! And yet, no progress (maybe there has been since 2015) on a loan! Why?








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I reviewed an online calculator. They had normal declining balance from 2000-2003. The balance went up when they re-financed in 2004 but that may have been rolling the re-fi points into the balance to get a lower interest and lower payment. Looks like insurance from the fire in 2006 paid almost all they owed and they got a construction loan for $163,500 and rolled in remaining $21,300 from the original, converted to permanent financing in 2007. But the one that seems odd is the re-fi in 2009. Again, lower interest=lower payment, but something else happened there, the balance increased and nothing had been paid down. Also did not decline as much as expected in 2013. 2014 actually matched the calculator, however with that 15 yr change the monthly payment was higher than ever. I suspect each time they refinanced they added in outstanding credit card balances.
Properties in Italy are still in MC's name, they haven't sold.

 

[Razz]

I reviewed an online calculator. They had normal declining balance from 2000-2003. The balance went up when they re-financed in 2004 but that may have been rolling the re-fi points into the balance to get a lower interest and lower payment. Looks like insurance from the fire in 2006 paid almost all they owed and they got a construction loan for $163,500 and rolled in remaining $21,300 from the original, converted to permanent financing in 2007. But the one that seems odd is the re-fi in 2009. Again, lower interest=lower payment, but something else happened there, the balance increased and nothing had been paid down. Also did not decline as much as expected in 2013. 2014 actually matched the calculator, however with that 15 yr change the monthly payment was higher than ever. I suspect each time they refinanced they added in outstanding credit card balances.
Properties in Italy are still in MC's name, they haven't sold.

Thank you so much. It's a relief to know the property in Italy, TX has not been sold.

And thanks for calculating the other stuff. I need to mull that over for a bit.

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[Razz]

Interesting thoughts, here. You've hit on a couple of things I hadn't really thought about. Thanks for sharing!

More can be shared but there is no room in the inn.

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[Tripod]

I understand trying to look into that which can be seen as a point of trying to establish motive. As I have said before I think this requires finding motive and then the suspects and one of them leading investigators to his body. If motive is some undying passionate love affair, she's-mine-you-can't-have-her scene, that is different than being unhappy about impending financial hardship, like in a situation of her wanting to sell the house to get out from under the payment, he refused, so the only way to live like she wanted was to get rid of him. One is love(lust) the other is money. A third possibility is that of a nurse with low moral standards who is stealing drugs for the fast money, as well as power which that brings and a husband who discovers it and is murdered to keep him from busting the operation. Just thoughts on possible motives. The 1st (love) and 3rd (drugs) could involve or even be driven by a 3rd party, possibly without her knowledge. The middle (money) would almost certainly mean she hired someone and that could be true for any motive except on the spur of the moment which does not seem to fit here, if you think the Wal-Mart trip was part of a plan.
We saw yesterday that any of the participants phone records will mostly be gone unless investigators had a quick jump start last fall. We know that HCSO did not subpoena anyone's phone records. But tower dumps seem to provide a good option. This is an article that describes how they caught some criminals in CO. It goes back a few years but I think is still relevant today with how LE uses tower dumps. With the several towers around there, perhaps this is one way the investigators will figure out who was at Wal-Mart, at their home and later also at the bridge. I hope they requested tower dumps as soon as they began the investigation since some are only kept for one year. https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstec...igh-country-bandits-and-why-it-matters/?amp=1

Here is a fairly recent article from 2016 on how cell tower dumps requests by LE are upheld in court. One thing interesting it states,
"[FONT="]Right now, CSLI comes in three flavors. The first is “real-time,” where police work with a cell provider to access location data immediately after it’s created. This usually does require a warrant. The second is a “tower dump,” when authorities ask for all the phones that have communicated with a certain tower during a period of time. There’s not a lot of law about how tower dumps work, but as of September of last year cops rarely sought a warrant for them. [/FONT][FONT="]The third is historical CSLI, where law enforcement requests a backlog of location data created by a certain phone. This does not require a warrant, and hundreds of these requests happen per day. In 2015, AT&T alone handled [/FONT]more than 58,000[FONT="] requests for historic CSLI. (By contrast, it received about 17,000 real-time CSLI warrants and fewer than 1,500 tower-dump requests.)"[/FONT]
https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...rcuit-cellphone-tracking-csli-warrant/478197/

Do we know for certain that HCSO never subpoened any cell phone records? I remember our VI being very frustrated in not getting any answer from LE when she was trying so hard to get them to acquire iMessages from MC's phone, but they never answered her. Hopefully they did, but it's info we just aren't privy to.

I understand you trying to zero in on motive, but I probably zero in on possible suspects first. That helps lead me to possible motives, if this case is a murder case. Both methods probably work equally well here, though! As of this moment, I'd have to say I give equal weight to the 3 theories of murder/suicide/walk-away. The more time passes, the less I think a walk-away is likely, but I really did think that's what it was in the beginning.

 

[KeepTheLightOn]

I hear you and all the others! I am looking at this from another angle, another voice if you will.

These are the reasons I bring the following up:

The sale or non sale of the Italy, TX property. If sold, when did it happen and where did the money go? Did someone recently come into money that perhaps shouldn't have?

Not paying the loan down: that bothers me because during the refinancing, it looks like maybe they bundled the fees into the new loan. And how many re- finances were there?! So where was their money going if not toward the loan?

If I'm the wife of a man who was spending mortgage money on a hobby, I'd be very ticked. (Not saying that was what was going on with MC) but, I could see that causing a huge rift.
(Certainly not enough to have him murdered) but maybe she'd broached the idea of divorce if the spending didn't decrease.

On the other hand, maybe it was up to the wife to pay the bills. Maybe she's paying only the minimum and keeping the money for who knows what else.

He was receiving retirement along with social security. She was working and from the sound of it, had a well paying job. No kids at home. All of this for the last 10 years! And yet, no progress (maybe there has been since 2015) on a loan! Why?
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It was my understanding that as a fireman, he did not receive Social Security. Can anyone verify that? Thank you.

 

[Tripod]

I reviewed an online calculator. They had normal declining balance from 2000-2003. The balance went up when they re-financed in 2004 but that may have been rolling the re-fi points into the balance to get a lower interest and lower payment. Looks like insurance from the fire in 2006 paid almost all they owed and they got a construction loan for $163,500 and rolled in remaining $21,300 from the original, converted to permanent financing in 2007. But the one that seems odd is the re-fi in 2009. Again, lower interest=lower payment, but something else happened there, the balance increased and nothing had been paid down. Also did not decline as much as expected in 2013. 2014 actually matched the calculator, however with that 15 yr change the monthly payment was higher than ever. I suspect each time they refinanced they added in outstanding credit card balances.
Properties in Italy are still in MC's name, they haven't sold.

I really appreciate your calculating and conciseness here, ocgrad. I had noticed the construction loan and that a large chunk of the preceeding loan had been paid off. There are some puzzling things re: refinancing as much as they did, but if it has any relevance will remain to be seen. Thanks!

 

[Tripod]

I'm going to sit out their personal property and financial discussions here. Not meaning that as a criticism of anyone. I realize the information is public record, and we do want to find MC, no matter which stones get unturned, ( within TOS, of course. )

I'm just saying that on a strictly personal level only, this makes me really uncomfortable - sort of in a 'peeping Tom' type of way. That's just me. My opinion only...

As I said, I intend no criticism or disrespect toward others who are working so hard to find any motive for why MC could be missing..


JMO

I've been a little queasy about this aspect, too, but, since money, sex, revenge/anger are 3 of the biggest drivers behind murder, looking at these public records just helps shape the big picture. Hopefully.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

I’m still wondering where he is, and who harmed him.

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DITTO. Waiting patiently on KIC to figure that out.

I agree with both of you 100%.

No matter what, by far the most important thing here for MC to be found and brought back to his loved ones.

Whenever I come across rather sensitive and private information (i.e., documents regarding the probate of his will, finances), I feel very conflicted as to whether or not I should be sharing it on a public forum.

I am always worried that by doing so, I am only adding to the family's pain. And I completely understand why some would feel uncomfortable seeing this type of information being shared on a public forum. I often ask myself, "Is it worth it? Does this help bring MC home?"

I really wish we had more and better information on where certain people were and when between the time BC left home and when HCSO arrived after the 911 call, based not only on what they have said, but actual facts. Who had the opportunity to harm and transport MC?

I hope that Klein is looking into this, and cell-tower dumps would be extremely helpful, IMO. After watching Meeks' interview and hearing his theory, I no longer have any confidence or trust in HCSO.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Update on the House:

Change in Status: "Active Option Contract":

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/7044-Fm-2101_Quinlan_TX_75474_M74030-86352?view=qv

"Definition of Active Option Contract
'Active Option Contract' means a seller has accepted an offer to sell a home, but the transaction is in the inspection or "option" period. During this negotiated time period, the buyer usually inspects and evaluates the property with the option of terminating the transaction. In some locations, the active option contract is referred to as a contingency period or due diligence period.

In Texas, buyers must pay an option fee, which is separate from the earnest money deposit. The option fee cannot be recovered by the buyer if they back out of the sale, even if it's for a reason covered by a contingency in the contract. If the buyer completes the purchase, the option fee will commonly be applied to the final sale price (this is a negotiable term)." (BBM)

https://www.redfin.com/definition/active-option-contract

 

[txhousewife83]

This is interesting. Is the assets statement posted on this site somewhere?

 

[txhousewife83]

I reviewed an online calculator. They had normal declining balance from 2000-2003. The balance went up when they re-financed in 2004 but that may have been rolling the re-fi points into the balance to get a lower interest and lower payment. Looks like insurance from the fire in 2006 paid almost all they owed and they got a construction loan for $163,500 and rolled in remaining $21,300 from the original, converted to permanent financing in 2007. But the one that seems odd is the re-fi in 2009. Again, lower interest=lower payment, but something else happened there, the balance increased and nothing had been paid down. Also did not decline as much as expected in 2013. 2014 actually matched the calculator, however with that 15 yr change the monthly payment was higher than ever. I suspect each time they refinanced they added in outstanding credit card balances.
Properties in Italy are still in MC's name, they haven't sold.

Is there a copy of the assets statement on this site? Or any document pertaining to the Italy property?

 

[Midge Montana]

Update on the House:

Change in Status: "Active Option Contract":

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/7044-Fm-2101_Quinlan_TX_75474_M74030-86352?view=qv

"Definition of Active Option Contract
'Active Option Contract' means a seller has accepted an offer to sell a home, but the transaction is in the inspection or "option" period. During this negotiated time period, the buyer usually inspects and evaluates the property with the option of terminating the transaction. In some locations, the active option contract is referred to as a contingency period or due diligence period.

In Texas, buyers must pay an option fee, which is separate from the earnest money deposit. The option fee cannot be recovered by the buyer if they back out of the sale, even if it's for a reason covered by a contingency in the contract. If the buyer completes the purchase, the option fee will commonly be applied to the final sale price (this is a negotiable term)." (BBM)

https://www.redfin.com/definition/active-option-contract

I think that is called "Pending" in Michigan. It sounds like the equivalent IMO. EX: I house shopped for 5 years looking for this house. There was another that I'd found, made an offer on *contingent upon inspection and financing. It is just the period when they stop showing the house to others because buyer has put a deposit down, and all the busywork happens. I ended up finding through inspection that the home needed a complete new roof for $30,000 and took the option to cancel the transaction. I got my deposit back.
Isn't this the second time BC's home has been at this stage? I wonder what the potential buyers found to make them change? It could be as simple as their financing fell through, not a thing to do with the home.