TX - San Angelo - WhtMale 966UMTX, 70-90, Lived Under Multiple ID's, Mar'05

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by justthinkin, Sep 4, 2010.

  1. justthinkin

    justthinkin New Member

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    Unidentified White Male, with most likely a serious criminal history.

    The victim was discovered on March 31, 2005 in San Angelo, Tom Green County, Texas

    Date of Death: March 31, 2005

    Estimated age: 70 - 90 years old

    Approximate Height and Weight: 5' 5" - 5' 7"; 125 - 140 lbs.

    Distinguishing Characteristics: White Male. Receding white-gray hair; blue/hazel eyes. Dark and graying eyebrows. Wore glasses. Very little to no body hair.

    **AKA: He had multiple IDs with names of Harold Frysinger, Roger S. Smith, Gerald Brown, Peter Turner using DOBs of 02/22/1922 and 7/02/1924**

    **Fingerprints: Center of each finger-pad was either damaged or abused to point that very few fingerprint characteristics obtained, possibly purposely removed. **

    Dentals: Upper plate denture that had one tooth missing. He did not have any natural teeth left.

    DNA: Available

    The victim was located in San Angelo, Texas on March 31, 2005. He was in the Shannon Hospital Intensive Care Unit.

    EMTs rushed John Doe to Shannon Hospital after suffering apparent heart attack at Christians in Action thrift store. He succumbed within the intensive care unit shortly thereafter.

    He had a form from the Pima County Arizona Health Department. He's thought to be a transient, apparently hiding his true identity.

    **May have connections to the West Coast.**

    If you have any information about this case please contact:
    Tom Green County Justice of the Peace Pct. 2
    Russell Smith
    325-949-2415
    Email
    Texas Department of Public Safety
    1-800-346-3243
    Case Number: TX DPS U0504001 ME 2400
    or
    San Angelo Police Department
    325-657-4255
    You may remain anonymous when submitting information.

    NCIC Number: U-510017795
    Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

    Doenetwork.org case#966UMTX

    Sources, San Angelo PD and doenetwork.org
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/966umtx.html

    I have already been in contact with Judge Smith who is also a retired police chief of San Angelo. Have asked additional questions, and will post when I receive any new information.
     

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  3. txsvicki

    txsvicki New Member

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    San Angelo is about 1.5 hours away from Big Spring where there is a VA Hospital and state mental hospital. The town has many transients going through. I know the man had several ID's, but wonder if he'd been to one of the hospitals and ended up in San Angelo where there's lot of places to camp and lakes all around the city.
     
  4. justthinkin

    justthinkin New Member

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    I guess that's possible, txvicki, but seeing as how this man didn't want to be identified, I think it's far more likely he would steer clear of a VA hospital, and a state run mental hospital would've had a record of him if he'd been there.

    He'd clearly been in Pima Co., AZ because he had a heath form from Pima Co. on him.

    I've been told that he'd been in San Angelo in the past on occasion. Obviously it means he found it still necessary to keep moving.

    Most of the time we work to restore a UID's proper name, and give their family some sense of closure by at least knowing what happened to their loved one, and a chance for proper burial of their loved one.

    My thoughts were different when I posted this case. My hope is that some LE offices may be able to bring a conclusion to some open crimes on their books, and get them resolved through dna.

    Everything seems to point to this man having been a criminal, probably stopped only by his advancing age, but the fact he was carrying several ID's and has obliterated fingerprints tells me he was into some serious crimes in the past, and even at his age, didn't want to be caught.

    I think it's much more likely his age is in the 80-90 year range. Based on that, we could be looking at cases that date back to the 1950s, and possibly even earlier that have gone unsolved.

    I would say this man was slicker than the average criminal. If not, his dna would've already been matched to a crime. An exception would be if he only committed one serious crime long ago, the case could be gathering dust, and not yet have been entered into a database because of its age.

    The thing that gets me is that he just looks like a kindly old man, someone's grandfather or great-grandfather. I thought it was just so bizarre that he had several IDs on him, and had obliterated the center portion of his fingerprints. That's what makes me want to know who he is and what his past is.
     
  5. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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  6. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    Interesting UID. While the info states LE believes it is possible that he may have been a criminal, we don't have facts to substantiate 'as fact' he committed any crime.

    Please keep in mind, this is a victim friendly forum, and the purpose here in the UID section is to identify those without a name.

    We would probably have to tie any unsolved crimes after an official id, or find links to crimes with his known alias'.

    Thank you,
    Cubby
     
  7. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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  8. tatertot

    tatertot Member

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    I also thought he looked grandfatherly, justthinkin, and that's why I was shocked when it looked as though he might be Elmer Crawford, the Australian man who murdered his family.

    I suppose it's also possible he could have had been innocent of any crime (other than possessing fake identification) but was the victim of a mental condition that left him paranoid someone was looking for him, hence the obliterated fingerprints and secrecy about his identity.

    If the possibility that he's a criminal is this strong, in my opinion LE ought to try an isotope test if they have a hair sample. They'd at least have a few regions to pull most-wanted lists and cold cases from.
     
  9. justthinkin

    justthinkin New Member

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    Good point about the isotope test, tater! That could prove a huge help.

    I never did think this guy was Crawford. Crawford had a huge snozzle on the order of a Jimmy Durante nose for one thing, and Crawford's features just looked coarser than I imagine this UID's would when younger, but the latter is JMO.

    Facial recognition software has a ways to go. It's not a substitute for dna that's for sure!
     
  10. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    From what I understand, The isotope test is performed on hair and fingernails, and consequently only tells us where the person was in the last several months. It doesn't tell us where he was years or decades ago.
     
  11. carbuff

    carbuff There but for the grace of God go I

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  12. reasypeasy

    reasypeasy Member

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    I know that with archeological specimens they perform isotope analysis on tooth enamel, maybe even bones. I have no idea if there is a reason (other than cost) this can't be done on a less aged tooth.
     
  13. reasypeasy

    reasypeasy Member

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    Whoops, didn't notice... he had no natural teeth left. Well that makes things difficult. I'm pretty sure they can study bones, but bones are constantly being renewed and won't give as definite a result as teeth or nails or hair that are set down over a limited period.
     
  14. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Wow! - That's a pretty strong resemblance!

    I can't imagine that they wouldn't have checked him out. But it's possible.
     
  15. justthinkin

    justthinkin New Member

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    I think Bulger is a good guess, carbuff, but I also think he's probably the first person the FBI tried to match to this UID.
     
  16. carbuff

    carbuff There but for the grace of God go I

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    I know. I looked at the photo upthread and thought, "Wait, they've got the wrong photo, that's Whitey, not some unidentified transient." He's *very* well known in this neck of the woods.

    I sent it in already -- better to have them tell me that of course they checked it out than to have it fall through the cracks.
     
  17. carbuff

    carbuff There but for the grace of God go I

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    You would think so, wouldn't you? I imagine it's just an amazing coincidence. I guess we'll see.
     
  18. MarchingTwinkie3

    MarchingTwinkie3 New Member

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    My first thought was Zodiac, but I'm sure he's probably been looked into, especially if DNA samples are in CODIS. This is such an interesting case. It really seems like it should be able to be solved. He does look a lot like Whitey. It'd really be something if it was!

    180px-Zodiac_blog_2100x147.jpg 966UMTX.jpg
     
  19. justthinkin

    justthinkin New Member

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    MarchingTwinkie3,
    :Welcome-12-june: to WS!

    I've run that by a couple of people already. Asked the judge in San Angelo if SFPD had shown any interest in this UID. The reply was, no.
    Personally, I think it's worth checking out.

    I found someone else I think this UID looks like, but that person was killed in an escape attempt at Fishkill Prison in 1978, Robert F. Garrow. Surely they killed the right guy!:waitasec: I do know he had family trying to help him escape.
     

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  20. Julessleuther

    Julessleuther New Member

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    This UID's nose is much broader than Whitey Bulger, IMO, but perhaps he broke it, or had it broken on purpose to change his appearance. The tip of the nose in particular is broader. The ears of both look similar though.

    Just thinkin---were every single one of his finger pads damaged?

    What was on the health form from Pima County, and has anyone contacted them with his photograph for more info?

    In looking up his alias on intelius, I started with Harold Frysinger, as that is the most uncommon name. I found Harold Frysingers in Reno, NV, Moriarty, NM, Redding, Roseville, and Altura, CA--all aged 89 yrs old. I also found two Harry Frysingers, aged 81 and 85, from Grantville/Harrisburg/Camp Hill PA. At the Grantville location, there is also a Barbara Frysinger listed. This certainly fits with the age of this UID.

    Actually--in researching this angle further, it appears that the PA and CA Frysinger are one and the same, and he died in May 2007 in Redding. (His birthdate was 4/6/1921) I do not, however, know if this man also lived in Reno, NV and New Mexico.
    I did find another Harold Frysinger, with the birthdate of Aug 16, 1927. His parents were Lewis and Hattie (Dershem) Frysinger. His death date is shown as Mar 1978. This Harold was from OH.
     
  21. justthinkin

    justthinkin New Member

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    Julesleuther, the answer to your question is yes.

    I ran across another Harold Frysinger, but he's locked up in Oklahoma. IIRC, he came up for parole in '05, but it was denied.
     

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