Found Deceased TX - Thomas Brown, 18, Hemphill County, 23 Nov 2016 #2

[OutWest]

The TM article reveals some important "trends". Of all of the strange and unusual twists and unanswered questions in this case, one of the most perplexing issues involves the appearance by law enforcement that they are investigating every angle EXCEPT the most obvious ..... foul play/homicide. The former sheriff has stated many times that they simply do not have any evidence that points toward foul play. Yet they would aggressively pursue the "run-away" theory, then the "ran off with an older man" theory, and then the "living in Denver with and older man" theory. Once remains were found they had to find another alternate theory to pursue. So, their new angle involved a theory that Tom committed suicide, that the family hid the body, then covered everything up because of embarrassment. IMO, you can't dream up a more radically bizarre scenario than that. With a spent handgun casing found in the Durango, evidence of blood throughout, no body nearby, and no activity on social media or bank accounts, I just find it very strange that foul play was not the primary focus of law enforcement; at least not for the first 3 or so years of the investigation. Hopefully that has changed.

 

[jellybean96]

The TM article reveals some important "trends". Of all of the strange and unusual twists and unanswered questions in this case, one of the most perplexing issues involves the appearance by law enforcement that they are investigating every angle EXCEPT the most obvious ..... foul play/homicide. The former sheriff has stated many times that they simply do not have any evidence that points toward foul play. Yet they would aggressively pursue the "run-away" theory, then the "ran off with an older man" theory, and then the "living in Denver with and older man" theory. Once remains were found they had to find another alternate theory to pursue. So, their new angle involved a theory that Tom committed suicide, that the family hid the body, then covered everything up because of embarrassment. IMO, you can't dream up a more radically bizarre scenario than that. With a spent handgun casing found in the Durango, evidence of blood throughout, no body nearby, and no activity on social media or bank accounts, I just find it very strange that foul play was not the primary focus of law enforcement; at least not for the first 3 or so years of the investigation. Hopefully that has changed.

I am in total agreement. Its like they are going out of their way to NOT think about foul play. Like, they have literally put every single other theory out there but nope. No foul play. I don't get it. And only 2 pages of notes on Thomas' case? Please. I am an amateur and have a whole notebook.

All of the suicide talk has made me go back and really try to have an open mind about this case. I just don't see suicide as a real, viable option. I just don't.

I've seen where some are saying Penny contradicts herself from the Unfound Podcast / TM Podcast. I haven't noticed anything off the top of my head but plan on registering next week when I am driving in the car. If someone has noticed something off, can you give me a heads up?

 

[OutWest]

In order to rationally arrive at a suicide conclusion in this case, a person must be able to logically discount or explain known evidence that otherwise points toward foul play. In this case we KNOW that a death occurred. We KNOW that the vehicle was abandoned approximately 12 miles distant from where the remains were found. We KNOW that a 25 caliber cartridge casing was found inside the vehicle. We KNOW that significant blood evidence with Luminol was found in several locations throughout the vehicle. In order to arrive at a conclusion involving suicide there must be a sensible explanation that takes into account this known evidence and provides a coherent believable theory. For instance, how and why a person who was focused on suicide could, 1) park their perfectly good vehicle near town, 2) shoot or severely injure themselves, 3) climb throughout the vehicle leaving blood at different locations, 4) then clean significant blood evidence from the door panel area and six other locations throughout the vehicle, 5) urinate next to the vehicle, 6) then while severely injured and in pain, walk (not drive) 12 miles in 34 degree temperatures, and possibly with a backpack, in the opposite direction of town over reasonably rough and sometimes swampy terrain in darkness before eventually succumbing to the injuries? Not logical. This leaves the suicide theorists with only the option being "assisted suicide"; a very unlikely and low percentage possibility. Granted, investigators should leave no stone unturned regardless of minimal likelihood. At this later stage of the investigation it is possible that homicide actually is the primary focus of the investigation .... we just don't know for sure.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I clicked on my alerts and there was something pertaining to a discrepancy.
Apparently the post was deleted, which I understand. But I caught a glimpse of it and caught the gist.

Yes, I noticed that discrepancy too. I went hmmm and thought about it for a long time.

I concluded that it should be written off to human nature rather than interpreted as something sinister.

 

[8th Bob-White]

After seeing the "Still A Mystery" video for Missy Bevers, I went ahead & watched the 2nd half for Tom Brown a couple months ago & was astounded that the case was handled so poorly by LE. I have a daughter the same age as Tom and there are many other similarities with his family/friends that drove this story home for me. I have gone down the rabbit hole as they say & have read/listened/watched all that I can find. The TM podcasts have been helpful to hear directly from people involved vs reading someone's interpretation. I have a few questions:
1) Is there any documentation that the urine outside Tom's Durango was tested? If so, were the results revealed?
2) Why would Lewis/Clapp have asked for the phone access code before they had the phone? I would think with a law enforcement subpoena they could get what they needed without it.
3) Has there been any mention of the phone being turned on AFTER it last pinged by the football stadium on 11/24/16 around 12:13 am? IF it was turned on at ANY time before it was found on 10/14/17 wouldn't that show up on records with the phone carrier & cell phone tower pings?
4) When the AG's office searched the Sheriff's office records (data/phone, etc) were the PERSONAL phone records of the Sheriff/Deputies searched for photos/texts/calls/data search?
5) With the case still "open", is there any way the family can get his remains & lay him to rest or will they keep his remains forever? (Very sad at that thought)
6) Has there been ANY documented additional sightings of the Durango after he pumped gas at 11:28, phone last pinged at 12:13, shown on video at video at 1:15am, 5:20 am, 5:22 am & 5:56 am?

The suicide/left on his own/runaway to Colorado/runaway to Colorado with an older man & then back to suicide put out by the SO has my head spinning. How does someone who commits suicide end up so far from their car in cold November (across a river in difficult terrain)...too many people have commented that it doesn't make sense and they're right...it just doesn't add up.

 

[OutWest]

After seeing the "Still A Mystery" video for Missy Bevers, I went ahead & watched the 2nd half for Tom Brown a couple months ago & was astounded that the case was handled so poorly by LE. I have a daughter the same age as Tom and there are many other similarities with his family/friends that drove this story home for me. I have gone down the rabbit hole as they say & have read/listened/watched all that I can find. The TM podcasts have been helpful to hear directly from people involved vs reading someone's interpretation. I have a few questions:
1) Is there any documentation that the urine outside Tom's Durango was tested? If so, were the results revealed?
2) Why would Lewis/Clapp have asked for the phone access code before they had the phone? I would think with a law enforcement subpoena they could get what they needed without it.
3) Has there been any mention of the phone being turned on AFTER it last pinged by the football stadium on 11/24/16 around 12:13 am? IF it was turned on at ANY time before it was found on 10/14/17 wouldn't that show up on records with the phone carrier & cell phone tower pings?
4) When the AG's office searched the Sheriff's office records (data/phone, etc) were the PERSONAL phone records of the Sheriff/Deputies searched for photos/texts/calls/data search?
5) With the case still "open", is there any way the family can get his remains & lay him to rest or will they keep his remains forever? (Very sad at that thought)
6) Has there been ANY documented additional sightings of the Durango after he pumped gas at 11:28, phone last pinged at 12:13, shown on video at video at 1:15am, 5:20 am, 5:22 am & 5:56 am?

The suicide/left on his own/runaway to Colorado/runaway to Colorado with an older man & then back to suicide put out by the SO has my head spinning. How does someone who commits suicide end up so far from their car in cold November (across a river in difficult terrain)...too many people have commented that it doesn't make sense and they're right...it just doesn't add up.

A few partial answers:
1) No samples taken or analysis of the reported wet spot that was presumed to be urine.
2) Need for the phone access code is one of the mysteries. Clapp reportedly has said he did not ask for the access code.
3) No mention of phone being turned on that I have heard. Whoever had the phone KNEW not to turn it on (a phone signal could potentially be blocked by handling the phone inside a faraday box/bag but whoever had the phone probably was clever enough to not take that risk in case the signal "leaked").
4) I have not read any info whether or not AG searched any person's personal records during that time period. A search warrant with fairly strong material justification would have been required for a judge to sign off on a personal records search.
5) AG will keep ALL evidence under wraps until the case is closed.
6) The only CATV sightings that I have heard of are the ones that you mentioned.

 

[8th Bob-White]

OutWest,
Thanks for your responses & confirmations. I figured it was a stretch that personal phones of the Sheriff/Deputies were searched but was hoping they had shown a pattern of using personal devices that would make them considered essentially work phones as well and subject to review. It's very discouraging that the case is suspended...another word for in limbo. Perhaps the TM articles/podcast interest will spur further discussion and hopefully new tips received. One can only hope that loose lips sink ships.

I've listened to the TM podcasts multiple times while working on home renovations and was intrigued by the local newspaper editor. I found the following column she wrote & it speaks for itself
Rattlesnakes, Facebook and fake news | Texas Press Association

In addition, an update on the Unfound podcast (Episode 209) after he spoke with Pyne Gregory seemed to clear up some of the video info but I was left with the feeling there's still too many questions that remain for this person. When I first heard mention that Tom's remains were found while he has "hunting for deer antlers" in the middle of the night, I abruptly stopped to ask my husband a question. As someone who grew up on a Texas ranch hunting and specifically deer hunting up until his 30's, I asked him if he EVER would look for deer antlers in the middle of the night (around 2:00am). He thought I was nuts & said NO that's not something he has ever done, heard of, or would ever do. According to moon phase info I just looked up there certainly wouldn't have been much moonlight that night (waxing crescent moon). You can listen to Tom's update at 1:06:33

 

[OutWest]

8th Bob-White: I had not heard the Unfound update; good information and thanks for posting it. Also, I had not read the editorial comment regarding the topic of “fake news” written by Ms. Brown with the Canadian Record.

I agree with the law enforcement agencies and with the Canadian Record editor that there is not yet sufficient hard material evidence to legally designate that a homicide has occurred. By the same token, there is no sufficient hard material evidence to legally designate that a suicide occurred.

I believe that a part of the “perspective gap” that Ms. Brown relates to as "fake news" occurs due to frustration among the public when they repeatedly see law enforcement and some media ignore obvious evidence and circumstances only to proceed down seemingly illogical rabbit trails over a period of approximately 3+ years. That is where the “perspective” conflict lies; despite evidence and circumstances that point much more strongly toward foul play, some have continued to illogically espouse theories involving suicide or run away with an older man.

 

[jellybean96]

After seeing the "Still A Mystery" video for Missy Bevers, I went ahead & watched the 2nd half for Tom Brown a couple months ago & was astounded that the case was handled so poorly by LE. I have a daughter the same age as Tom and there are many other similarities with his family/friends that drove this story home for me. I have gone down the rabbit hole as they say & have read/listened/watched all that I can find. The TM podcasts have been helpful to hear directly from people involved vs reading someone's interpretation. I have a few questions:
1) Is there any documentation that the urine outside Tom's Durango was tested? If so, were the results revealed?
2) Why would Lewis/Clapp have asked for the phone access code before they had the phone? I would think with a law enforcement subpoena they could get what they needed without it.
3) Has there been any mention of the phone being turned on AFTER it last pinged by the football stadium on 11/24/16 around 12:13 am? IF it was turned on at ANY time before it was found on 10/14/17 wouldn't that show up on records with the phone carrier & cell phone tower pings?
4) When the AG's office searched the Sheriff's office records (data/phone, etc) were the PERSONAL phone records of the Sheriff/Deputies searched for photos/texts/calls/data search?
5) With the case still "open", is there any way the family can get his remains & lay him to rest or will they keep his remains forever? (Very sad at that thought)
6) Has there been ANY documented additional sightings of the Durango after he pumped gas at 11:28, phone last pinged at 12:13, shown on video at video at 1:15am, 5:20 am, 5:22 am & 5:56 am?

The suicide/left on his own/runaway to Colorado/runaway to Colorado with an older man & then back to suicide put out by the SO has my head spinning. How does someone who commits suicide end up so far from their car in cold Novem/ er (across a river in difficult terrain)...too many people have commented that it doesn't make sense and they're right...it just doesn't add up.

ok, I am going to try and answer what I can....if I mix something up, someone chime in please!

(edited: after I typed it up, I saw that others responded already. My bad!)
1. According to Penny, no it was not tested. I dont believe LE ever commented on it.
2. The only reason I can come up with is that they didn't want a paper trail of having that phone.
3. Officially, no. The phone was not turned back on. Im sure LE at some level got it back on so they could access the info. But in my notes, no one other than LE has had it on that I can recall.
4. No one has commented on that. Is it possible, yes. Have we heard officially? No.
5. I do not think so, no.
6. Not that I have noted, no. It was seen on camera (as the unfound podcast documented) but nothing else has been released. I think if it had been seen, someone would have commented on it by now.

 

[OutWest]

As everybody knows, the mystery of the phone is key to making a connection to those involved. The fact that the phone was not destroyed may provide some important insight. Let's assume for a moment that the phone came to be in possession of some person who was not directly involved in Tom's disappearance but had knowledge of the crime as well as close emotional ties (acquaintance, parent, relative, friend, etc.) with the person(s) who were directly involved . In addition to being subject to potential evidence tampering charges, such a person may be severely conflicted between a "right and wrong dilemma". The scheduled search provided the opportunity to get rid of that "hot potato" and to do so anonymously. Whatever the case, whoever planted the phone was not directly responsible for the disappearance but has detailed knowledge related to Tom's disappearance.

 

[Razz]

As everybody knows, the mystery of the phone is key to making a connection to those involved. The fact that the phone was not destroyed may provide some important insight. Let's assume for a moment that the phone came to be in possession of some person who was not directly involved in Tom's disappearance but had knowledge of the crime as well as close emotional ties (acquaintance, parent, relative, friend, etc.) with the person(s) who were directly involved . In addition to being subject to potential evidence tampering charges, such a person may be severely conflicted between a "right and wrong dilemma". The scheduled search provided the opportunity to get rid of that "hot potato" and to do so anonymously. Whatever the case, whoever planted the phone was not directly responsible for the disappearance but has detailed knowledge related to Tom's disappearance.

So much time has passed. If the person who unloaded the phone knows something, it's time to come forward so the Browns can exist with some peace.
(And the person who left it!) I find it had to believe that there are people who know something but won't say anything.

I do think TB was in a bad way, though. Did his brother know TB wore diapers? How could TB live a "normal life" knowing at any moment someone could discover his secret? I'd be terrified.

I don't have it but if someone could drag up his locally televised interview re the football game, I felt uncomfortable because TB was uncomfortable. Why?

Sorry. Just my speculations . That interview always bothered me but I decided at the time not to say anything.

 

[kelsie]

Links to the last 2 write ups:

Tom Brown’s Body, Chapter 4: Lake Marvin Road

Tom Brown’s Body, Chapter 5: Unusual Suspects

In February, the attorney general’s criminal unit sent word that two veteran investigators, Sergeants Rachel Kading and Chris Smyth, had been assigned to the Tom Brown case. When they arrived in Canadian, they reinterviewed residents all over town. (Kading and Smyth declined requests for comment.) They studied sheriff’s department reports. They stayed up an entire night downloading the department’s digital files, including call records, photos, and videos.

It didn’t take them long to surmise that someone was withholding key information. The investigators came up with a short list of people they wanted to put “on the box”—sources they wanted to submit to lie detector tests. Lewis was on the list, as was Klein. But at the top was Penny and her husband, Chris.

 

[jellybean96]

Klein is posting about Lewis on FB again. Its a rehash of what we have seen...

 

[8th Bob-White]

Deleted...duplicate post

 

[Razz]

Deleted...duplicate post

Hi 8th Bob-White: thank you for the response re Tom's post football game interview. I think you hit the nail on the head.

Has the brother ever been questioned thoroughly? The reason I bring this up is because my younger brother and I, when we were young, could get into some knock down drag outs. It's surprising we didn't hurt/kill each other. A lot of that anger stemmed from chaos at home. I felt responsible for him and would get angry with him when he didn't conform.

TB was taking what appeared to be a new direction in his life. One that probably didn't make his family happy.

This is a general question, but IF he had been gay, would that have rocked the world around him or am I stuck in the past where you'd never breathe a word of it and hope no one ever found out?

Again, all speculation.

 

[jellybean96]

Hi 8th Bob-White: thank you for the response re Tom's post football game interview. I think you hit the nail on the head.

Has the brother ever been questioned thoroughly? The reason I bring this up is because my younger brother and I, when we were young, could get into some knock down drag outs. It's surprising we didn't hurt/kill each other. A lot of that anger stemmed from chaos at home. I felt responsible for him and would get angry with him when he didn't conform.

TB was taking what appeared to be a new direction in his life. One that probably didn't make his family happy.

This is a general question, but IF he had been gay, would that have rocked the world around him or am I stuck in the past where you'd never breathe a word of it and hope no one ever found out?

Again, all speculation.

I've been thinking about his brother as well. Not because I think he did anything, but because I haven't heard much about him. My own kids are Toms and Tucker's ages so I often wonder how Tucker is doing.

From my own memory, Tucker has been interviewed but Penny would not allow a lie detector test. While some might find that suspicious, as a mom, I probably would not agree for my own child to do one because they have no legal standing in court and emotional toll of taking one can be so hard.

I also think its kinda weird that *nothing* has been said about who was with Tucker at home, when Tom went missing. Or no info that I have saved says who it was. With literally *everything* else coming out, Im surprised no one has been named.

All that to say, I don't get any weird vibes from Tucker (and we all know that 'vibes' count for so much, lol). I live close to Canadian and no, being gay would not be a huge big deal. That said, I know everyone isn't like my family/town/community.

 

[Tighthead]

I've been thinking about his brother as well. Not because I think he did anything, but because I haven't heard much about him. My own kids are Toms and Tucker's ages so I often wonder how Tucker is doing.

From my own memory, Tucker has been interviewed but Penny would not allow a lie detector test. While some might find that suspicious, as a mom, I probably would not agree for my own child to do one because they have no legal standing in court and emotional toll of taking one can be so hard.

I also think its kinda weird that *nothing* has been said about who was with Tucker at home, when Tom went missing. Or no info that I have saved says who it was. With literally *everything* else coming out, Im surprised no one has been named.

All that to say, I don't get any weird vibes from Tucker (and we all know that 'vibes' count for so much, lol). I live close to Canadian and no, being gay would not be a huge big deal. That said, I know everyone isn't like my family/town/community.

Isn't Tucker a college graduate?

 

[8th Bob-White]

Yes, Tucker is a graduate of Oklahoma State & works in a local school district per Tom Brown's Body (Part 1)
Tom Brown’s Body, Chapter 1: A Pretty Little Place
"She introduced me to Tom’s older brother, Tucker, who’s 24 and an information technology specialist at a nearby school district, and to her husband, Chris Meek, a quiet man with thinning hair who works as a line locater for an oil field supply company."

Per Tom Brown's Body (Part 2) it names the friend that was at the house with Tucker that night watching movies:
Tom Brown’s Body, Chapter 2: Tom’s Loop
"said she called and texted Tom. Tom’s older brother, Tucker, who was in the living room watching a movie with his friend Taylor Russell, did the same. But Tom didn’t answer."
This same friend was who went with Tucker on the initial search and Tucker later took him home.

 

[OutWest]

The latest TM podcast is available ("The Thicket"). Since the TM articles and podcasts have been published, there has been an increase in negative and hurtful theories and comments posted on some other social media sites. Seems like some people should realize that the information being presented by TM (specifically regarding the polygraph exams) is not current information; it is "new" information to some of us, but from the perspective of the case, it is old information that is being presented publicly nearly 3 years after the fact. Those polygraph exams occurred beginning in February 2018 and immediately at the time that the AG office took over the investigation. The AG office was tasked to "leave no stone unturned" and that is what they were attempting to do as they began their investigation. A LOT of developments have occurred since that time and undoubtedly significant progress has been made in the investigation that is not known to the general public. The true facts and conclusions will be known if/when a Grand Jury and subsequent trial(s) occur. At that time, the family of Tom Brown will finally have some answers.

 

[kelsie]

Tom Brown’s Body, Chapter 6: The Thicket